NFL Discussion Topic - Favorite Teams and How They are Doing

RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

We've got a Christian propaganda website that basically says "it's okay to hate gay people", a poorly done psychology/theology article from 2004, and an extremely conservative Orthodox Jew. try harder.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Zenith said:
we've got a Christian propaganda website that basically says "it's okay to hate gay people", a poorly done psychology/theology article from 2004, and an extremely conservative Orthodox Jew. try harder.
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You can't discredit a source simply because they have differing opinions.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

I think it would be interesting to find more studies on this. I'm aware of the study that looked at hereditary factors in which they studied homosexuality in twins. For identical twins, if one is gay, its much more likely that the other will be gay. I've also read up on the study involving the rate of homosexuality occurring in subsequent offspring. Then there is the "sexual preference gradient" that has been suggested. I dont know how relevant that is anymore, but some people are "more gay" than others. For example, I'm a heterosexual male but I am not uncomfortable being too close to another male. Some heterosexual men are very uncomfortable with being too close to another male or engaging in the typical "bromance" of close friends. I'm not sure if that is really a product of their environment or if the gradient is truly a thing. That would also explain how some people can claim to be sexually aroused by either sex (assuming they aren't going through a teenage phase) which would be considered bisexual.

As far as it being a choice, my personal view is that it is a genetic thing primarily based on the research I've found. Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to dig up those articles or papers I once read. Some have said that there is some choice even if its only just a small influence on their sexual preference.... I dont know what I think about that. On one hand, its been suggested that their environment and tastes might help influence them, but on the other hand, I'm more inclined to believe that these influences are really just strengthening their otherwise preset preference.

An anomaly would be people who claim to play for the other team because of bad relationship experience with the other sex :p Not sure if I'm buying that. I think that if they really did switch over, I think it has more to do with the strong friendship bond they form with that person and the sexual actions sort of happen naturally due to that bond, or they were gay to begin with.

Very interesting topic. I would have a lot more to say but I bet most people will skip over this because its too long haha
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

I believe being homosexual is not a choice seeing the studies, but what I want to know is why is being homosexual strange. I'm gay and more than proud to say it. In fact we have a gay pride in Tulsa every year. So if anybody is gay, it's alright.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Zenith said:
we've got a Christian propaganda website that basically says "it's okay to hate gay people", a poorly done psychology/theology article from 2004, and an extremely conservative Orthodox Jew. try harder.
Click to expand...

You have got quite a fantasy if that's your summary of these articles. I agree they are not the best, but a source should never be the reason to discredit an article, even if it is the person is religious, that is outright absurd.

Nobody ever said other influences didn't exist, from a psychological point of view, it is an interesting idea, and certainly not impossible.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Without getting too much into it I am inclined to say it can be both choice and non-choice.

For me I experimented when I was younger and I was in a few relationships with men (which we did get intimate) and I don't only feel but know it has directly to do with several factors. Mind you, I didn't make these connections till after they happened and I honestly don't believe anyone who says they know when they are being influenced. When you are being influenced whether by life events or whatever you're not noticing it is influencing you or at the very least it is highly unlikely you notice influence. Anyway, I was sexually taken advantage of as a young boy by an older male and I realized as I went on that event had an effect on how I perceived relationships. I was not interested in girls (at first) but I was with boys and certain ones took an interest in me and I loved this attention. Given what happened to me in my past I began to think that this is how it should be. I gave in to the idea and I couldn't help but love that someone genuinely had an interest in me. <--- that was influence. Whether you agree with it or not this is how some people can turn gay.

However, I do agree with evilpacman's assessment that for the most part people who are gay were likely born with an inherent attraction to the opposite gender and events may reinforce this. Why do I agree with that when I just said people become gay by influence and make the choice to be gay? Because I was straight inside. While I loved the interest and feelings I got while with males something didn't quite feel right. I wasn't becoming homophobic or anything. It just clicked perhaps my "gradient" was telling me "Hey, you're not into guys" I have no idea. But I knew that I wanted to be with women not men. Perhaps like pacman said I have some gradient traits that make me more comfortable around men ("More gay" as he put it) but ultimately I knew that I wanted women. This was almost 10 years ago and I still believe now as I did in the aftermath of my experiences with men that I was straight but life events and influences as well as having comfortability around males led me to believe otherwise.

So I believe it's a mixture of factors including influences (choice; even if it's indirectly a choice) as well as naturally being a "gay" person. (non-choice).

But I think we need to be reminded of this, always:

Dustin DeVine said:
Dodging the question, however, who really cares if it is a choice? Everyone should be equal, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, sex, sexual orientation, et cetera. These are the very questions that are preventing the human race from intellectually evolving, mainly because we are actually still viewing this as an issue. As long as we keep viewing our differences as issues, we will never see past our differences. Whether an individual chooses to be gay is irrelevant. The point is that we should look past all differences and unite as the only thing we are -- human.
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RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Ysmir said:
Without getting too much into it I am inclined to say it can be both choice and non-choice.
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For the majority people, I doubt that. I have no desire to kiss a person of my sex. I apply that same idea to homosexuals ( they have no desire to kiss people of the opposite sex). The concept of most people being able to choose whom they are attracted to seems ludicrous.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Pokequaza said:
Zenith said:
we've got a Christian propaganda website that basically says "it's okay to hate gay people", a poorly done psychology/theology article from 2004, and an extremely conservative Orthodox Jew. try harder.
Click to expand...

You have got quite a fantasy if that's your summary of these articles. I agree they are not the best, but a source should never be the reason to discredit an article, even if it is the person is religious, that is outright absurd.
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it really isn't. have you ever written an academic paper in your life? these aren't people with real credentials, and the "studies" are shittily done and obviously influenced by what result they wanted to achieve.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Is Homosexuality a choice? Is any sexual orientation a choice? I don't know, but I do have some Homosexual friends in the group I hang out with. I also have a Bisexual friend. So I am going to tell (type) you guys what they have told me when this subject was brought up.

Now, one of my gay friends when asked says that he has always been gay. He knew that his dad didn't like the gay community, so he hid it till he was 15 then came out to his dad. Which he accepted him. And so by his point of view it wasn't a choice. It was something that was true to him, and not something he could change.

Then there is my other friend. The one who just recently came out to us, his closest friends, has said that he was attracted to girls till he was about 13. He is now 17. Then during that time he said that he didn't want to be attracted to girls anymore. So he said that he chose to be gay. And I honestly don't think that he was lying. So by his point of view it was a choice.

Next to last is my Bisexual friend. She has just come out as bisexual just this last year. And there isn't much to her. When asked about it she says that one day she realized it wasn't her choice. She realized she was attracted to the female body. Not much else. So it wasn't her choice in her view.

Then there is me. I am, what I believe to be, Asexual. I have always been. I am attracted to girls/women. But I am not attracted sexually. I don't know why, I don't think i eever will,(Even though I make jokes about in the chatroom.), but I am still attracted to them. Just in a mental way. And was this a choice for me? No it was not. It is something I have always had. Have I been ridiculed for it? Yes. But that doesn't stop me from acting that way. Nothing might, maybe I might wake up one day and change, but that hasn't happened yet.

So in conclusion it might be a choice for some people. It might not be for others. It might be because of genetics. It might not be.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

I really appreciate the maturity and quality going into these posts. Keep it up guys!! :)
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

ChillBill said:
Homosexuality is something decided by the genes. It is not your choice. And it's not really an illness, you can't cure it. It's like trying to cure brown eyes and change them to black.
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I read this as

ChillBill said:
Homosexuality is something decided by the genes. It is not your choice. And it's not really an illness, you can't cure it. It's like trying to cure being black.
Click to expand...

Anyway I don't really care if it's a choice or not. so you're a guy who likes to play the skin flute? whoopee. people need to get over themselves and just worry about their own lives, na'mean?
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

If your friend liked women until age thirteen, then "chose to be gay," more than likely, he's not gay. "True" gay people, for the lack of a better term, do not choose their sexual orientation; however, some sexual orientations CAN be chosen.

For example, I was not born pansexual; I chose to see past gender for the bettering of our species, as do pretty much all omnisexual individuals. We have chosen to totally disregard gender and biological sex in order to rid ourselves of the problems the gender binary presents.

In contrast, though, I have never felt like a boy, despite my having male sexual organs. Did I choose this? Not really, at least not certain aspects. I did choose to carry on and further myself, finally labeling myself as an Androgyne. There are several reasons I have done this, mostly to escape the confines of "regular" sexuality, as well as to fully be able to express myself without having to constantly worry about gender roles.

In conclusion, certain aspects are a choice, such as how you dress, act, etc, but sexual orientation, in most cases, is not a choice. Please, forgive me if I got too far out there... My mind often wanders aimlessly.

Also, LOL, PMJ.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Dustin DeVine said:
For example, I was not born pansexual; I chose to see past gender for the bettering of our species, as do pretty much all omnisexual individuals. We have chosen to totally disregard gender and biological sex in order to rid ourselves of the problems the gender binary presents.
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Apologies in advance if this makes me sound like a mid-50s bigot, but I don't get this at all. If you can't choose your sexual orientation, how can you choose to disregard biological sex? I don't care what gender people are, because I'm not even sure if gender means anything concrete anymore, but biological sex is plenty relevant if I'm going to want to touch mooshy parts with someone (not to mention relevant for respective health issues and etc.) I can't find it in myself to be attracted to anyone with a female body, at least not sexually. I mean, good on you if you're able to manage something like that, but I don't think most people can, nor would they have to in order to disregard the gender binary.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Why does "choosing" to be homosexual not make you the real deal? It's not some kind of birthright. Sexuality is dynamic over time and sexual preference/fetishism/etc does not stay fixed. It's entirely possible for someone to go from bisexual to pure homosexual.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Frezgle said:
Dustin DeVine said:
For example, I was not born pansexual; I chose to see past gender for the bettering of our species, as do pretty much all omnisexual individuals. We have chosen to totally disregard gender and biological sex in order to rid ourselves of the problems the gender binary presents.
Click to expand...

Apologies in advance if this makes me sound like a mid-50s bigot, but I don't get this at all. If you can't choose your sexual orientation, how can you choose to disregard biological sex? I don't care what gender people are, because I'm not even sure if gender means anything concrete anymore, but biological sex is plenty relevant if I'm going to want to touch mooshy parts with someone (not to mention relevant for respective health issues and etc.) I can't find it in myself to be attracted to anyone with a female body, at least not sexually. I mean, good on you if you're able to manage something like that, but I don't think most people can, nor would they have to in order to disregard the gender binary.
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I am a rather confusing person, and trying to sum up my experiences coherently is a bit of a challenge.

I was born gay, I guess. I have always been fond of males, as opposed to females. Now, I cannot change my hardwired, pre-birth orientation, but I can tweak it in real life. I don't want to get too OT here, so I need to watch what I say. Some of you may know, I have disregarded emotions -- I no longer include them in my everyday life, because they are no longer relevant and serve no true purpose. I have chosen to disregard my hardwired sexuality in favor of a more evolved approach to humanity -- omnisexuality and androgyny. If you even made it reading this far, one, I congratulate you, and two, you are probably extremely confused.

I am huge on the social, as well as mental evolution of the human race as a whole. I see myself as an advanced form of the modern-day human because I have totally rid myself of the things that well... make us modern humans. As for physical evolution, I will let time take its toll.

Sexuality and emotional status are intertwined. I do not exactly "love," so my original sexual orientation is deemed irrelevant and disregarded. I have opted for a more evolved, much higher form of sexuality, and in return, I see myself as a higher form of human. I do not mean to derogatorily say that I am better than most people, but I no longer face emotional challenges. I have totally brainwashed myself, if you will.

You may call me utterly insane, and most people do. Just think, in five hundred years or so, my very ideals could very well may be an average part in a human's everyday life.

[private]DD are you trolling here? lol ~ES[/private]
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Dustin DeVine said:
If your friend liked women until age thirteen, then "chose to be gay," more than likely, he's not gay. "True" gay people, for the lack of a better term, do not choose their sexual orientation; however, some sexual orientations CAN be chosen.
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You might be right, you might not be. We may never know. Only he will know till he truly confides in someone. He might have been gay all along but didn't want to admit it. He may have actually changed. Or he might just be going through a long phase.

You have brought new information into my mind. I thank you for that.
 
Mansfield man dies, makes final request of Browns

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/fox-sports-networks/story/alt/Mansfield-man-passes-away-makes-final-re?blockID=918555&feedID=10938
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

I can go into a long rant on this, but I won't. It would take too much of all of our time. instead, I will explain my own story and how it connects to my beliefs on the matter.

I discovered I was gay when I was 12. Closing in on 10 years now since the date was in October or November at some point. I was almost 13 anyway. Before then I never really cared. I wasn't attracted to anybody, I wasn't looking for a date because I was the nerd who always focused on school and games above all else. I do remember the day, I discovered in school with an awkward several minutes I managed to hide after an awkward moment in the class. It wasn't my choice. I didn't expect it nor did the thought of sexual interest enter my mind. Needless to say that after that day had ended I began to question who I am and why I seemed so much more into one guy than any other person. I spent a year lying to myself of who I am because the homosexuals were always bullied here and if the thought entered my mind before discovery, it would be for that very reason I'd beg and pray to be straight. I openly admit I bullied a gay guy before to avoid attention and to fit in with the other students. Anyway, after I stopped lying and owned up to it, I did try to figure myself out more. I wanted to confirm it wasn't a one time thing or confirm that maybe I'm not gay but bi, and it really did nothing as by the time I was in the next year of school around the same time of year, I confirmed that yes, I'm gay and not bi. I figured it out very quickly. It wasn't difficult when half of the male population in your class tended to strut around gym class and even in home room without a shirt on and brag about their abs.

So, to make a long story short, I am gay and I did not chose to be this way. Beyond the end point of that part of my life, I spent all years up until now and still going hiding the fact I'm gay to all but people online, knowing that they can't beat me into a mess like those offline can and will.

Why am I gay? I don't know.
Do I care? I really do. I'd love to know why I'm gay and why I can't, like the majority of other guys, be attracted to girls.
Am I happy with who I am? I am who I am. This is who I was meant to be and while I'm filled with less than desirable traits, I still wouldn't change who I am for anything.
 
RE: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Growing up catholic, being raised right wing, conservative, im red blooded american. What do i think? I think its chemical. I believe people truly are born different ways. Shoot, I have a chemical imbalance for depression. I always thought depression came about from PTSD or similar. Not always the case. So being gay has to be something that is wired differently for people.
 
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