PokeBeach's Official 5th Gen Ban List

RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Hey guys. For those of you who don't know, Smogon suspect testing has banned Inconsistent, Deoxys-N, Darkrai, and Shaymin-S at a full Majority vote. Manaphy and Drizzle were close to majority, and will probably be banned next round. Just wanted to give the update :)
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

... you're way behind dude. Round 2 has already been finished, with new stuff happening.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

The way Smogon testing works, to be banned, a Pokemon needs a super majority vote (66%), or two simple majority votes (50% +1). Like Chillarmy said, Deoxys-N, Shaymin-S, and Darkrai were all banned, as well as Deoxys-A, with a supermajority. Manaphy only reached a simple majority.

In this most recent vote, Manaphy again reached a simple majority, meaning it has two, which also means that it is banned, as far as Smogon is concerned. Something called "Aldaron's Proposal" also passed, which banned the use of Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team. Those were the only changes in the most recent test.

(Quick Disclaimer: The only reason I posted this is because people were talking about Smogon's tiering, and I'm sure at least a few of you guys are interested in what's going on over there. Don't start discussing what you think about that since this is PokeBeach, not Smogon.)
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Latias is not allowed in 4th generation OU with or without Soul Dew. Soul Dew is in fact a banned item.

In 5th generation, Soul Dew does not exist (As of now at least), and Latias is able to be used OU. It was even UU on Pokemon Online for a while, before it was banned.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

... he said Latios -_-

Anyhow right now both of them are allowed in OU. Latios has been suspect in both testing rounds but has been discredited by the voters for whatever reason. We have it banned in our tiers though because high speed + massive power + all the coverage you need (including the option to use STAB Psycho Shock to effectively go mixed) is just ridiculously strong. You could argue Hydrigeon too because of the better resists but his far lower speed keeps him in check much more. Although some would argue against that, he just doesn't do as well right now.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I would like to propose the banning of the DW ability Eccentric on Ditto once it gets released. It is able to switch in, immediately transform into your Pokemon, and copy any stat modifications. It is also able to hold a Choice Scarf to ensure it is always able to get first strike. Even without Choice Scarf it still has a 50% chance of beating the other Pokemon in a speed tie. This Pokemon alone can make it so one player can go from dominating the other player, to losing. I really feel that it would destroy the balance.
/me waits for others to agree or disagree.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

^
I agree completely, that's pretty much the only counter to some of my Pokemon after they set up. It's extremely disappointing when you use a bunch of strategy to set up a Pokemon when they just get to switch in a Ditto after a kill and start sweeping your team. It's completely unfair and should be banned.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I agree as well. Although it can still be countered by Unaware pokes, Ditto is still a huge force to reckon with. It murders my CM Latias :(.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

The easiest way to beat Eccentric Ditto is to:

1) Not boost up so far that you KO yourself with a single move
2) Make sure they have one before you start boosting <- probably the most important step and the main reason why people lose to it
3) Resist your own moves (something like Reuniclus can do this easily)
4) Just don't use stat-boosting sweepers.
5) Make sure your team is capable of dealing with everyone on your own team at +1 Speed

Of course Latias gets murdered by Ditto. Also keep in mind that Ditto has only 5 attacks before he has to run (or Struggle). If you can force Ditto to transform into something it wouldn't want to be, that makes it easier to deal with. In addition, remember that you know every move Ditto has. If your teammates can handle attacks from its own team, Ditto won't be too hard to beat. Not to mention that because Ditto functions mainly as a revenge killer, he is extremely predictable and since there are no secrets in regards to his moveset, he's fairly easy to play around.

Ditto also loses to Toxic Spikes, as it hits the field before it transforms (so it won't remove them).

I would vote no on an Eccentric ban.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

You know your opponent has a ditto beforehand, you just have to play more carefully then you normally do. I haven't played in Dream World in a long while though. This is a ban that will be dealt with when it becomes available.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

PMJ said:
1) Not boost up so far that you KO yourself with a single move
2) Make sure they have one before you start boosting <- probably the most important step and the main reason why people lose to it
3) Resist your own moves (something like Reuniclus can do this easily)
4) Just don't use stat-boosting sweepers.
5) Make sure your team is capable of dealing with everyone on your own team at +1 Speed
Click to expand...

Basically this means you can't play offense. You shouldn't be forced to play stall just so you can take on Ditto easily. In all honesty, who would switch out their Gyarados after they get off 1-2 DD and a KO assuming the opposing Pokemon isn't Jolteon, Rotom, or Burungeru? You shouldn't have to switch just because of Ditto. If you are using an offensive team Salamence has its merits as well with its ability. By saying Ditto is ok you are effectively saying it isn't ok to use a Pokemon that is offensive that can try and sweep. My vote is and always will be that it is banned.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

It should not be banned. You just have to play more careful like Pride said. Although Ditto does have the amazing factor it can do this I don't think it really unbalances the metagame. If anything Ditto is situational. It is useless vs stall teams practically because it typically cannot copy a set-up sweeper from a stall team. All it does is set-up hazards and then dies. In all honesty, I don't think it should be banned. This is one of those situations where we have to see it in the real metagame to ban it.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I was ranked #1 on the Dream World ladder with an offensive team, so don't tell me its impossible to use anything but stall.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Pride using offense? Obviously he's bsing.

Anyways, how about we wait until Eccentric Ditto is released and this issue becomes relevant? Maybe it's just me, but banning a Pokemon from a metagame that it hasn't been a part of doesn't seem right.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I agree that this discussion be postponed until Ditto becomes a part of the real metagame. For what it's worth, I've never had an issue with it thanks to team previews, and Ditto cannot function well against Pokemon who either use Balloon (Dory), those who boost the relevant defence stat (CM Suicune, BD Volcorona, Conkeldurr), or sometimes those who have a solid recovery move (SD Gliscor?).

EDIT: Not to mention it won't be getting a Life Orb boost. Something like a Gyarados with +1 and locked into an attack is easy to deal with.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Disagree. I play DW a lot. Ditto may be a top tier threat, for sure. I had a team that whatever Ditto transformed into, it could still counter, even with CS. It's simply a amazing counter, no matter the tier. And yes, the team is HYPER-OFFENSE.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Again, we have no business talking about a Pokemon that hasn't been released yet.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I don't know if anyone asked this, but why is Latios banned but Latias isn't? Don't they have the same base stats?
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

They don't have the same base stats. Latios has 80/90/80/130/110/110, while Latias has 80/80/90/110/130/110 (HP/Atk/Def/Sp Atk/Sp Def/Spe). Even though they have the same base stat total, that still means virtually nothing in terms of their respective power. Slaking and Regigigas both have large Base Stat totals, but both have other factors that significantly hinder them. Base stats are only a certain aspect of a Pokemon.
 
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