PokeBeach's Official 5th Gen Ban List

RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Can I get some briefing on why Shadow Tag is banned? It really isn't that broken. The only pokemon with Shadow Tag who is insane with it, is Wobbuffett, and I still don't even see him as a threat with all the Mischievous Heart and new taunters about. Shandera uses it more like Arena Trap, which makes for good revenge killing and such, but if you run Shadow Tag on a non Scarf set, you will be trapping in many pokemon, who are faster can KO before Shandera gets any damage down. In some cases, yes I can see Shandera setting up on a pokemon such as Heatran, locked into HP grass or Fire Blast, But by the time Shandera actually has some boosts down, it won't have a true way to recover HP, and it really just wouldn't work. Shadow Tag also forces players to really focus on their teams more, and make sure that they don't have any deadweight, which is what Shandera loves. In anything, Shadow Tag helps the metagame become more focused.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Gonna have to agree with Assassin, Shadow Tag Shandera isn't nearly broken enough to constitute banning Shadow Tag outright. If it's a SubCM or other CM set, it's so slow that half the metagame can outspeed it once it kills whatever it set up on, and then easily revenge kill with Earthquake, Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Crunch, Pursuit, Waterfall, et cetera. And if it runs a Scarf to outspeed things, it's really just a basic revenge killer a la Dugtrio, albeit one with higher stats (and more weaknesses), and can easily be either revenged or even set up on.

I'm not sure about the other specifically banned abilities either, but I can see more reasons as to why they're banned than I do for Shadow Tag (although really, if Drizzle is banned Sand Stream might as well be - I'm much more afraid of sandstorm than rain; and Inconsistent is, as its name suggests, incredibly inconsistent - while obviously Smeargle can sometimes pass awesome boosts...it could already do that, and to not get some stats lowered as well it has to lose the Sash, making it extraordinarily fragile).
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I agree, banning abilities seems kind of pointless, anyways. You basically just kill of team archetypes, and that hurts a lot of new players to the game. I think it would be interesting to see how players deal with these abilities in the new meta, not just ban them outright. But hey, it's just my opinion.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Okay,

Shadow Tag only exist on Wobbuffett at the moment. So Shandy is completely irrelevant to it being banned, at the moment. I have it banned because it removes one of the most central aspects of Pokemon and one of biggest factors of skill which is, of course, switching. If enough people agree to it being unbanned then of course I'll remove it but I'll hold firm that Shadow Tag is an incredibly broken ability.

Inconsistent is one of the worst abilities ever, and this one is not moving at all as it completely removes skill from the game and you can only hope your opponent doesn't get an evasion raise while you try to deal with it. There are logs floating around of Bidoof sweeping teams 6-0 in OU because of it. And, further, it was voted to be banned on Smogon by a margin of 48-2. 96% of the players agreed to it being banned.

Steadfast: Sorry, I'm OCD and had to change the 98 to 96. :p

And finally Drizzle completely outclasses Sand Storm, and is a terrible comparison as there aren't any Pokemon that gain a double boost in speed and power in Sand Storm. That power alone more then warrants a ban. There are a few... poor ways to deal with Drizzle but all of them leave you incredibly weak to other threats. The only real great pokemon that takes advantage of Sand Storm is Doryuuzu which is more suspect because of its own traits rather then just Sand Storm alone. Of course, I would rather have no weather abilities allowed.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Ugh... I don't like the idea of banned abilities. Poor Politoed and Kyogre...
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

The abilities are only banned in OU. Not in ubers. Kyogre isn't allowed in OU in the first place. Some abilities to deserve to be banned though.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Notable Pokemon and Abilities that are Excluded

What's the difference between excluded and banned?
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

The list of notable excluded Pokemon are those who are pretty controversial and are suspects for being banned. : )
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Stats have very little impact on whether or not a Pokemon is Uber. Slaking has the exact same Base Stat Total as Kyogre and Groudon, yet was barely used in even NU. Kyureme has a very limited movepool, and doesn't have the best typing ever.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Mew is not banned I see? Not that mew is amazing... I mean, it's all base 100's like Jirachi and Celebi. But, it can learn all the TMs/HMs, iirc, and it was uber in past generations, soo... Just wanted to double check on that. thanks. :)
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Not a mistake. I have new under the "Notable" Pokemon that are not banned on my first post.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

@ Pride "And finally Drizzle completely outclasses Sand Storm, and is a terrible comparison as there aren't any Pokemon that gain a double boost in speed and power in Sand Storm. That power alone more then warrants a ban. There are a few... poor ways to deal with Drizzle but all of them leave you incredibly weak to other threats. The only real great pokemon that takes advantage of Sand Storm is Doryuuzu which is more suspect because of its own traits rather then just Sand Storm alone. Of course, I would rather have no weather abilities allowed." This is statement is false. Sandstorm gives benefits to quite a few Pokemon. Landlos, Excadrill, and Garchomp can definitely utilize SS for quite some benefits, especially Excadrill. While yes the Pokemon in SS don't get both benefits each are still a force, and add in Sandstorm does damage plus hazards and you do have something quite fearsome.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

When I read the 1st post, Shadow Tag scared me. Does that mean Chandelure is gone too, or does it have a 2nd ability?
~AoH
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Shandera has Flash Fire and Flame body, so it is legal, just not with Shadow Tag.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Ok. That's good, just in case someone uses it anyways. It will, no doubt. Any recommendations on the Ability choice? I would say Flame Body. ~AoH
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Flash Fire. not even close. Grants you a whole immunity, and allows for you to do even more damage with an already base 140 SpA.

I am just curious as to why Latios is banned and not Latias. I understand that Latios has the extra special attack as opposed to special defense, but it seems like it would have plenty of checks, especially without Soul Dew. Ttar, Scizor, and Scarf Shandera would be fine counters, and that's only a few of them.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I'm going to vote "yay" for shadow tag ban for OU's just because of the potential setup (from nitro charging) it has on grass-types and steel types; if he is carrying balloon, then you're also facing a 3 immunity lock...

If you look at it from weak/helps/damage(DMG) point of views:




Rain Teams: WEAK = electric, grass [checked by swampert/volt absorb/lightning rod and dragons/sap sipper; respectively]

HELPS = steel, bug, grass, water-abilities [adds to grass checks]

DMG = ground, rock, fire [decent amount of entry setups are of the mentioned types, excluding swampert/empoleon/cloyster]




Sun Teams: WEAK = rock, ground [checked by ground/steel/fighting-types and grass/flying/levitate; respectively]

HELPS = fire, ground, rock, grass-abilities [only lunatone/solrock/flygon aids against weakness; grass weak to fire]

DMG = steel, bug, grass, ice [couple of entry setup Pokémon, some OUs are bug/steel- but they are screwed against
fire anyway, grass are gambles, only weavile is popular from the ice category]



Sand Teams: WEAK = fighting, ground, water [checked by flying-types/levitate and grass/water/dragon/water absorb; respectively]

HELPS= rock, steel, ground, sand-abilities [those that were helped still retain the "WEAK" line; sand veil is annoying
so garchomp will probably stay in Uber]

DMG = gradual dmg to those not steel/rock/ground, increase only by sand force ~ moves which are 2x to 4x effective against : rock, steel, ice, fire, bug
[the benefactors of SS are also capable of being OHKO by the ability it supports]



I agree with what's posted thus far. Still praying for magic mirror on xatu to be competition legal though ^.^
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Shadow Tag Chandelure is really not that threatening, especially if you've got Pursuit. If you lose a guy to Shadow Ball, bring in your Pursuit user and he's as good as gone. Tyranitar works especially well for this, since he can come in on Flamethrower and basically all Hidden Powers as well as Shadow Ball. He eats Chandelure for breakfast.

If you don't have Pursuit, you just have to plan for him. Find out what set he's running and plan accordingly. Chandelure only has 80 Speed; without a Scarf he is very easy to revenge kill or at the very least force out. Calm Mind sets are the same way, except you might find yourself trapped with Truant if they reveal the ant first (I forget his English name) and force Truant upon you. Just be careful if you find yourself going up against him. Acid Armor Calm Mind sets are more lame to fight, so if you've got Heatran, you're good to go.

Scarf sets lose to any remotely fast Pokemon (or some slow guys with Agility, like Empoleon) that can boost its Speed (by way of a Speed-boosting move or its own scarf) and threaten Chandelure with a super effective hit. Bulky guys who are not weak to Ghost or Fire can take an Energy Ball or a Hidden Power and threaten Chandelure (if he's got a scarf).

Also keep in mind that with rocks down, Chandelure loses 1/4 of its life every time it comes in. It's also vulnerable to Spikes and Toxic Spikes.

Yes, you're probably gonna lose one or two guys to him, but with careful and smart playing, that's all you'll lose.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I am just curious as to why Latios is banned and not Latias. I understand that Latios has the extra special attack as opposed to special defense, but it seems like it would have plenty of checks, especially without Soul Dew. Ttar, Scizor, and Scarf Shandera would be fine counters, and that's only a few of them.
Click to expand...

Counter is the wrong word to use. Checks would be the proper terminology since Shandera isn't exactly going to like taking a Dragon Pulse on the switch, especially if SR is in play. If Latias is holding a Choice Specs, it could potentially OHKO.
 
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