Strategy PokeBeach's Official Sixth Generation Ban List (OU)

RE: PokéBeach's Official XY Ban List

Agreed.
Also, great, Genesect was banned. Uralya, pal, I think we need to redesign a few things...
Updated list.
 
RE: PokéBeach's Official XY Ban List

Thank goodness, those two really needed to go. I can rest a little bit easier at night now.
 
RE: PokéBeach's Official XY Ban List

Manaphy is not banned yet? o-o
 
RE: PokéBeach's Official XY Ban List

It's easier to defeat and even counter now since it can't rely on rain to just constantly live attacks and Rest them off without ever dying. The most dangerous set of previous gen, which was really Calm Mind despite popular belief, has to sacrifice a moveslot for Rain Dance, which limits a lot of its effectiveness. In DP OU it could get away with that because of the lack of speed and power at the time, but that is no longer the case with the more offensive take the metagame has recently taken. Unlimited rain + Hydration + Rest + Calm Mind (or Tail Glow lol) was the only broken thing about Manaphy in last gen; nerf it and you have an moderate threat with limited coverage who requires a lot off support to be fully effective. Not that it's a bad Pokemon (it's great), but it's far too limited without the infinite rain.

I guess you can say it's tolerable now.
 
RE: PokéBeach's Official XY Ban List

If I wanted to see or abide by smogon's banned or teir lists then I would just visit their lists.
I play by "if you're allowed to enter the battle maison with your team then you can use it. Just no major legendaries allowed".
 
RE: PokéBeach's Official XY Ban List

spiritomb said:
If I wanted to see or abide by smogon's banned or teir lists then I would just visit their lists.
I play by "if you're allowed to enter the battle maison with your team then you can use it. Just no major legendaries allowed".
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Too bad that's not what we play by.
 
RE: PokéBeach's Official XY Ban List

You can play however you want casually, but we play in imitation of Smogon's lists officially. The idea is to create a uniform, understood spectrum with which to play by. Contradictions are not a want by any means. Just as the official VGC tier lists are, Smogon's are, basically.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-suspect-process-round-3-voting.3508983/page-3#post-5525507

As usual, we will be implementing this to our ban list. Feel free to discuss the complex ban of Baton Pass in this thread.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

PG24 said:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-suspect-process-round-3-voting.3508983/page-3#post-5525507

As usual, we will be implementing this to our ban list. Feel free to discuss the complex ban of Baton Pass in this thread.
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I'm very happy with this. Baton Pass teams were downright annoying, but banning it and Speed Boost together would pretty much eliminate Scolipede's one use (and Ninjask, but who uses him over Scolipede really?).
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

I can roll with that. They picked the right option out of the ones they had, and I can't think of better off the top of my head. At least Scolipede is still a usable Pokémon (although 3 attacks + Protect a la Sharpedo is pretty nice) and the playerbase is pleased.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

The best decision, in my opinion. Baton Pass is still a thing, but hopefully not the thing.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

So what do you guys think should be banned next, if anything? I feel like Charizard X is the most deserving.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

I don't see a reason Charizard X should be banned. Sure, it's powerful, but so is Mega Pinsir and Talonflame. Charizard X in no way makes the meta unbalanced. It has counters, and you definitely don't need to include a counter in every team anyway.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

Charizard in general is way more of a problem than Talonflame or Mega Pinsir. Neither of them can 2HKO everything with the right set like Charizard X can. Neither of them have two megas with completely different checks/counters. Neither of them can easily fit on any type of team as well as Charizard X does. Neither have the combination of STAB that's resisted by only 1 pokemon+Dragon Dance+burn immunity+decent bulk+Roost. Not to mention that all of the best Charizard X checks are crippled by a Will-o-Wisp from a bulky set. I don't feel like Charizard X /needs/ to be banned, but if I had to pick one thing then I would probably choose it.


Or maybe Aegislash. The damn thing makes Pokemon with Fighting STAB carry EQ, can severely injure checks/counters depending on the set (subtoxic, SD, crumbler, etc) and is the main reason Mandibuzz is OU. Definitely the most centralizing, but I'm also not completely sold on it needing to be banned.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

Thing is, MegaZard's greatest power is actually the fact that there are two forms, not one. While you can make guesses based on the opposing team's structure, they're not always accurate, and nobody guarantees your opponent makes teams with the same mindset as you. Banning one form of MegaZard will inevitably lead to the other's usage drop.
And while Charizard can 2HKO everything with the right set, it still doesn't mean that it's better. Talonflame fits in teams just as easy as Charizard, and both Talonflame and Pinsir carry STAB flying priority which makes them a huge threat. Talonflame can be countered by Zapdos, Rotom-W, Thundurus and Heatran. Mega Pinsir has similar counters. Apart from these, however, both are extremely annoying. Pinsir can wreck teams just as easy as Charizard (it has higher Speed, priority and Return/Frustration is stronger than Flare Blitz without the extra recoil as well). Talonflame is the bane of all setup sweepers in existence and the reason why prominent Pokemon of Gen V like Keldeo and Volcarona have seen very bad days. And while Mega Pinsir really only has one viable set, Talonflame has at least three, meaning it's also quite versatile.
So no. I think that right now there's nothing among these Pokemon that makes a ban needed. Aegislash is another story, with its unique style, raw power and defenses, so maybe that could be the next suspect.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

Chaos Jackal said:
Thing is, MegaZard's greatest power is actually the fact that there are two forms, not one. While you can make guesses based on the opposing team's structure, they're not always accurate, and nobody guarantees your opponent makes teams with the same mindset as you. Banning one form of MegaZard will inevitably lead to the other's usage drop.
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Exactly my point. Charizard as a whole is borderline broken because of this. Mega Charizard Y is more manageable than X, so banning X would solve this issue. At least Y is easily revenge killed, stays 4x weak to SR, and has actual counters.
Talonflame fits in teams just as easy as Charizard
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Oh right, lol, I forgot about defensive Tflame sets.
Pinsir can wreck teams just as easy as Charizard (it has higher Speed, priority and Return/Frustration is stronger than Flare Blitz without the extra recoil as well).
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At least Pinsir stays 4x weak to SR and has counters.
Talonflame is the bane of all setup sweepers in existence and the reason why prominent Pokemon of Gen V like Keldeo and Volcarona have seen very bad days.
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Debateably, this could be reason for a Talonflame ban. Some could argue that one pokemon practically single-handedly keeping Pokemon that would otherwise be OU such as Medicham, Infernape, Volcarona, Heracross, etc from being OU is enough to warrant a ban.
Aegislash is another story, with its unique style, raw power and defenses, so maybe that could be the next suspect.
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Aegislash is definitely the most centralizing Pokemon in OU and possibly the best. I'm not convinced it (or anything else for that matter) is bad enough to warrant a ban, but honestly I wouldn't mind seeing it gone because I feel its overall effect on the meta has been negative.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

Pinsir doesn't stay 4x weak to SR, it becomes. Otherwise it's 2x. And if you get a SD up, you probably won't need to switch.

As for Aegislash, while it is annoying, I wouldn't like to see it go. It's a really unique Pokemon with a playstyle completely personal. I don't think it has been that much negative for the meta, and I wouldn't vote for a ban on it, but I could understand it being a suspect.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

Well both Deoxys formes were just banned with a super-majority, which doesn't surprise me in the least. I wasn't on board with the idea back when the above discussion was going on, but over the past couple of weeks I've come to agree with the need for their ban. Both formes were unhealthy and I'm glad to see them go.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

Kinda on the edge about both... at least they could cut Deo-D some slack in my opinion.
Updated list.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official X / Y Ban List

Both had to go, but not necessarily because they're both individually broken. It is difficult to plan ahead when you have to consider both formes because they both play vastly differently. Whatever can stop Deo-D gets trumped by Deo-S and the vice-versa. That was the underlying factor in why they were so difficult to handle imo. I'm not saying that one forme would not be broken without the other around in the metagame, but it would certainly be easier to plan a team with the thought of only having to stop one of the formes. Since it was a blind vote and it's hard to quantify which one was more broken, both had to be eliminated just to be on the safe side.
 
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