Maybe they should change it . . . but I'll prefer it if they don't, because I'll forget everything!
XY Revised Type Chart
- Thread starter CaseyVGCx
- Start date
Water resists Ice probably because ice melts when it is put in water that's warm enough or if the ice isn't too cold. But it can also be argued that, since ice that's cold enough freezes the water around it, Ice should resist water, so there's something to add to the list of illogical things in video games. I, too, think Water and Ice should resist each other.Metalizard said:
Actually, a major change that would make sense for Rock-types is removing its resistance to Fire-type attacks. All solids have a melting point, including rocks. What do you think molten lava is? It's flowing rock. The only changes that would make sense for Rock-types would be to: A) Make it vulnerable to Fire-type attacks and keep its super-effectiveness against Fire-types since it could technically put out fires if enough rock is used, B) Make Rock vulnerable to Fire-type attacks and make Rock-type attacks neutral against Fire-types, C) Make Rock vulnerable to Fire-type attacks and make Rock-type attacks weak against Fire-types since rocks melt in a fire that's hot enough, or D) Make Fire-type attacks neutral against Rock and make Rock-type attacks neutral against Fire (I think that option C is the most logical choice. It may not be strategically viable for Rock-type Pokemon, but it makes the most sense.).
In the end, leaving the Rock-type resistant to Fire-type attacks is perfectly fine with me. Not many games are perfectly logical.
Now, onto my main point:
Pokemon types tend to have at least a bit of theoretical logic to them. Water puts out fires, fire burns grass, grass absorbs water, etc. (It can also be said that fire evaporates water and too much water kills grass, but I'm not sure if grass can hinder fire in any way.)
Example: Some people say that it doesn't make sense for Fairy-types to be immune to Dragon-type attacks. Fairies are magical and can usually cast enchantments and spells, allowing them to do such things as cast an enchantment that causes dragons' attacks not to affect the fairies, forcing the dragons to use other types of attacks.
Steel can fairly easily break through rock (like breaking bricks with a sledge hammer), so Steel-type moves are super-effective against Rock-type Pokemon. On the other hand, most rocks can't break steel, therefore Steel-type Pokemon resist Rock-type attacks.
In the case of "Rock-type against Rock-type," two rocks of the same composition and size hypothetically have around a 50/50 chance of breaking when coming into contact with each other, or crumbling upon impact. Sometimes, the rocks may just chip pieces off of each other. This makes trying to justify Rock-types gaining a Rock resistance or weakness very complicated and unnecessary.
Keeping Rock-type attacks neutral against Rock-type Pokemon supports the fact that rocks are usually fairly breakable and crack or fracture with only a bit of effort, especially when you smash them against each other, and sometimes don't break or crack at all.
Metalizard said:
Me too.
Another interesting match-up Id wanna see is two different types being weak to each other.
Which brings me to another change I've been thinking about for a long time:
Psy>Ghost.
competitively, Ghost is top defense right next to Steel with two amazing immunities, while Psy isn't really that good as far as offense goes.
Would be an interesting twist.
And makes sense to me for some reason. Like these two types are the "spiritual" ones, just that one is the medium and the other the spirit.
(also LOL ppl who thought that's already the case due to Gengars Poison type from playing gen I, would rejoice, altho that was not my starting point XDD)
And while we're at it, Steel is so OP, I'd throw an Electric weakness in there huehuehue.
(suddenly Skarmory and Empoleon develop a phobia of Thundershocks shared with Gyarados, Bronzong has a new FIXED hole in its defense, there is an alternative way than Fire to kill Scizors, Heatran starts shuddering, ....Aggron cries in sadness and Steelix laughs his ass off.)
Electric is a bit underwhelming for what it is supposed to be (resisted by 3 and 1 even immune, while merely hitting Water and Flying for SE)
EDIT:
this is my current "extreme" case of trying to improve the type chart:
^Also agree on giving an Electric weakness to Steel... It's another one of those cases in which one would think "makes sense" right away yet, they didn't do it...
CaseyVGCx said:
Do you know why flying types are strong against grass types? Please take time to think here. What are some of the flying type moves (gust, whirlwind Aeroblast [a huge ball shaped blast of wind], air cutter [razor like wind], air slash [blades of air], hurricane, and tailwind) are based on? The wind and occasionally strong winds produced by storm. Do you know what a Hurricane can do? It can rip trees out of the ground, want to do the math again?
There is nothing wrong with current type match ups, also why would you want to remove flying as a weakness to grass?
Why steel weak to electric? water would make more se... ahhh, metal conducts electricity, right? anyway, I'd think it's fine electric hitting steel for x1, after all, It's just that steel doesn't stop electricity, not that is weak to it. Water, on the othe hand, oxidizes iron; so it would make more sense to turn that x1 to x2, and would level the field a little more against steel.
Also, ice and water weak to each other; after all, cold on water freezes it, and water on ice melts it.
And electric needs another weakness; just ground is vey little, and it produces abominations like eelektross, who on top of being already a tough SOB, he doesn't have any weaknesses, or emolga, or zapdos (who also resist grass, the second best type against electric).
Also, ice and water weak to each other; after all, cold on water freezes it, and water on ice melts it.
And electric needs another weakness; just ground is vey little, and it produces abominations like eelektross, who on top of being already a tough SOB, he doesn't have any weaknesses, or emolga, or zapdos (who also resist grass, the second best type against electric).
professorlight said:
Although one forgets why you have those big huge rods of steel on top of houses (hint, it is so the lightning strikes the rod and is directed into a safer spot if I am not mistaken)
I always thought electric was strong against steel and was shocked when I found out it wasn't.
Also, why is ice not super effective against rock? Weathering breaks rocks apart cause water freezes and unfreezes within and repeats. I think rock shouldn't be strong against ice and instead ice should be strong against it but take normal damage from rock.
Ice should resist water.
Maybe fire could be super effective against poison cause like you heat stuff up to kill bacteria.
I'd say electric could be super effective against dark but really dark is evil in japanese so it doesn't make sense.
Fighting could resist and/or be super effective against poison because if you are fit and have a strong immune system you can withstand certain poisons or something to that extent.
That's off the top of my head. I'll post more if I think of any.
Also, why is ice not super effective against rock? Weathering breaks rocks apart cause water freezes and unfreezes within and repeats. I think rock shouldn't be strong against ice and instead ice should be strong against it but take normal damage from rock.
Ice should resist water.
Maybe fire could be super effective against poison cause like you heat stuff up to kill bacteria.
I'd say electric could be super effective against dark but really dark is evil in japanese so it doesn't make sense.
Fighting could resist and/or be super effective against poison because if you are fit and have a strong immune system you can withstand certain poisons or something to that extent.
That's off the top of my head. I'll post more if I think of any.
Ohman177 said:
Have you thrown rocks at ice? I assure you that if you find enough rocks that ice will start to crack and perhaps even break.
Mitja said:EDIT:
this is my current "extreme" case of trying to improve the type chart:
How are you supposed to read this? Is orange resisted, and green super effective? And the outlines are supposed to be your additions? Purple is supposed to be immune, right?
Also, we still don't know that fairy is immune to dragon. It might just resist it. I could see the leaker mixing those up by accident or Game Freak deciding to change it.
@Electric-Steel discussion:
Sure it conducts electricity, but we're not talking about the material here, we're talking about living creatures that are literally made of it.
So it sounds even worse than Water Pokemon who aren't necessarily more water-based than other pokemon.
By all means if anything makes sense, Steel should be weak to Electric.
@Electric having only 1 weakness:
I agree that's been quite a luxruy for this type for no apparent reason. Well maybe because nothing else seems as an obvious choice.
Of all the types I think Grass might be a candidate here (as seen on my type chart),
-competitively it'd be great as Grass is a "good for 4x weak" offensive type right now.
-conceptually not really sure...but Grass is already resistant to Electric for some reason I assume? And these very elemental types most of the time have a weak/resist match-up, so perhaps the reasoning can be contrived from the resistance?
I think it might have to do with plants being very "grounded".
Its 100% self explanatory like all Pokémon type charts. And you figured it out
Sure it conducts electricity, but we're not talking about the material here, we're talking about living creatures that are literally made of it.
So it sounds even worse than Water Pokemon who aren't necessarily more water-based than other pokemon.
By all means if anything makes sense, Steel should be weak to Electric.
@Electric having only 1 weakness:
I agree that's been quite a luxruy for this type for no apparent reason. Well maybe because nothing else seems as an obvious choice.
Of all the types I think Grass might be a candidate here (as seen on my type chart),
-competitively it'd be great as Grass is a "good for 4x weak" offensive type right now.
-conceptually not really sure...but Grass is already resistant to Electric for some reason I assume? And these very elemental types most of the time have a weak/resist match-up, so perhaps the reasoning can be contrived from the resistance?
I think it might have to do with plants being very "grounded".
SuperDuper said:
Its 100% self explanatory like all Pokémon type charts. And you figured it out
I think Electric is fine with only one weakness... Precisely because it's the only one that makes sense... But also because Electric is more of an offensive type than a defensive one and since it's only weakness is the super common Ground-type, I think it is balanced...
Electric/Flying pokés are weak to other types (Rock being the most crippling one) and Eelektross, despite having no weakness, it's not invicible... It's slow and its lack of weakness relies on its ability so either removing the ability or simply using a Mold Breaker pokémon with Earthquake does the job (I know from experience... that's what I do with my Haxorus on Cynthia's Eelektross in BW)...
Electric/Flying pokés are weak to other types (Rock being the most crippling one) and Eelektross, despite having no weakness, it's not invicible... It's slow and its lack of weakness relies on its ability so either removing the ability or simply using a Mold Breaker pokémon with Earthquake does the job (I know from experience... that's what I do with my Haxorus on Cynthia's Eelektross in BW)...
Ohman177 said:
I have always thought that fire should be SE against poison because when you look at pokémon like Koffing/Weezing, Grimer/Muk, Trubbish/Garbodor, you think "Man if I light this thing on fire it'll blow up (Koffing/Weezing) or catch on fire and faint quickly (Grimer/Muk/Trubbish/Garbodor) because trash typically catches on fire relatively well." But then it doesn't make sense with pokémon such as Arbok or Seviper because they aren't pollutants, just poisonous snakes.
I would be for an updated type chart. Hell, I still get confused with what rock type is SE against and what's SE against it.
Metalizard said:
But not everyone likes mold breaker pokemon or the use of ability changing moves (which are only useful in some strategies, and outside of a levitate eelektross, shedinja and a few others are not worth the slot they use).
I never said eelektross was invincible, I just said it was a tough SOB, yesterday I wrecked one using only one of my pokemon (that bastard with the levitating team in striaton city) and it was hard enough.
Besides, ground pokemon or moves might be common in the metagame, but not everyone likes ground-types or ground moves, no matter how easy they make the game (if it wasn't for flygon, colress would have been impossible. All-resistant high HP parafusion magnezone? no thanks.).
special cases (like Levitate Eelektross) shouldn't have to enter the discussion (unless every single conceivable combination of types and abilities is also taken into consideration) .
What matters is whether Electric is deserving buffs/nerfs on the defensive side in general, and imo one weakness is not enough, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE it is meant to be more of an offensive type on terms of pokemon and concept.
What matters is whether Electric is deserving buffs/nerfs on the defensive side in general, and imo one weakness is not enough, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE it is meant to be more of an offensive type on terms of pokemon and concept.
@professor light: well, that's those people problem... they're not gonna give Electric a weakness just because some people don't like using ground pokémon or moves lol...
And like Cinesra said... Eelektross is not really that bulky... I just gave the Mold Breaker + Earthquake example for those desperate to kill an Eelektross...
@Mitja: The thing is... if you have a pure Electric pokémon, you already know you just need a Ground attack and it's gone because most Electric pokémon have bad or average defenses... Hence why I think it's not necessary...
I was happy when I saw that Elesa's team wasn't full of pure Electric pokémon and had 2 Emolga (1 in B2W2)... I felt bad about Lt. Surge and Volkner for how easy they are to beat because all you need is a good ground attack...
And like Cinesra said... Eelektross is not really that bulky... I just gave the Mold Breaker + Earthquake example for those desperate to kill an Eelektross...
@Mitja: The thing is... if you have a pure Electric pokémon, you already know you just need a Ground attack and it's gone because most Electric pokémon have bad or average defenses... Hence why I think it's not necessary...
I was happy when I saw that Elesa's team wasn't full of pure Electric pokémon and had 2 Emolga (1 in B2W2)... I felt bad about Lt. Surge and Volkner for how easy they are to beat because all you need is a good ground attack...
Ohman177 said:
One problem, you wouldn't be able to eliminate a weakness for Jolteon without eliminating a weakness for electric types. Yes I understand that was a joke (or at least I hope it is one)
Yes I know levitate but that makes less sense on Jolteon than on Elektross.