PT-On. It would be weird if only half of the Platinum series is rotated. Having said that, I will not be surprised either if it is RR-On, SV-On etc for next season.
Rotation after Worlds 2009-2010
- Thread starter Pokeman
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Pokeman said:
SPs are already stupid...stupidly unbalanaced...and a PT-on rotation makes it even more stupidly unbalanced, because then you have no SP counters (except Spiritomb), while SPs still retain they're broken trainers and engine...but if you prefer a stupidly gaytarded unbalanced metagame...to each their own
Pokeman said:
Machamp, nor Unown G have been seen nearly as much in the meta...Gengar wouldn't make that much of a difference either
Machamp has lost steam because SPs have been OHKOing it left and right, and is too slow to keep up with the rest of the meta...Unown G has seen decline because Machamp isn't seen as much, Status Condition attacks haven't been used hardly at all, and Gengar (SF) hasn't been nearly that much of a problem because people have found a way around Fainting Spell, and Gengar tends to have bigger problems in the active pokemon then bench sitting Poke-Power users...those decks wouldn't nearly be broken...because if that's the case, you would see them more now that Unown G isn't being used much
PT on is wayyyy more unbalanced that SF on or RR on. Pokeman, why do you argue about SPs, being broken as they already are, to be even more broken?
SPs will actually be balanced if Platinum was out.
SPs will actually be balanced if Platinum was out.
SplitHeavens said:
Most biased post in the whole topic GET. Removing Platinum means that SPs become absolutely unplayable. The main advantage that they have over normal decks is their versatility based on Cyrus and the TGIs. What you're saying is like you're removing Rare Candy and BTS for stage 2 decks. Running an SP deck without TGIs will just be plain inconsistent and unreliable. If you like your format like that, please go back to a card game that's more suited for donk and other no-brainer decks.
Anyway, not looking at this rotation, I would think it's clear that the next rotation will probably contain at least all of the SP format, so PT-AR. Then, after HGSS finishes, they can bring new concepts in again. That's how it usually goes. Ergo the next format will be at least PT-On, but maybe more like SF-On.
StealthAngel667 said:
Unplayable?
XD, really?
They are really only losing Energy Gain, Power Spray, and PokeTurn. Two of them being unarguably the top most broken cards in the format.
Wait...you've never played a stage 2 deck without Broken Time-Space? That sucks for you.
And Rare Candy has practically been in the game since Base Set.
I'm sorry that I like my format without a "Trap card" or something that would grant my opponent an all-heads Scoop Up to the most powerful cards in the format.
Sorry, but the rest of us has to use Scoop Up, and with your logic, that alone makes SPs unplayable?
Think about it.
The best decks are SP decks. They have every single card that any decks can use AND have the advantage of support solely to themselves(which alone are better than standard supporters).
They have some very notable Pokemon that can damage within themselves or with a whole engine.
How do you go about crippling the best deck into becoming "unplayable"?
They are broken already. Doing a rotation from PL-on will make them even more broken. Yet, taking away 3 cards of theirs(1 of which can be easily substituted, and the other two being unnecessary) makes the deck "unplayable"?
What am I being biased for exactly?
And you accuse me of wanting a card game with no-brainer decks, but you do know SP decks are one of the easiest decks to play, right?
I've played plenty of formats before, all without Broken Time Space. Back then, it was OK to take a bit more time Evolving. Not anymore.
The reason SP decks work is not their attack power, their HP, their Poke Powers or anything else. It's the versatility that's granted to them by something called the SP Toolbox, consisting of all the Pokemon, the TGIs, and Cyrus.
You conveniently forgot to mention Cyrus. Cyrus is what makes all combo cards in the SP engine searchable and is absolutely necessary. Poketurn and Power Spray are on their own less important, they merely make up for the fact that SPs do not possess huge durability or huge attack power (Poketurn a Bat). They even the field. Their HPs are quite low and being all basics and Xes gives them certain disadvantages, like little to no first turn action.
Not only that, removing Cyrus and Poketurn also removes the biggest baddest card in the format that is Luxray GL X. I won't say his Power is broken, because it's possible to play around it. The best thing about him is that he fits in every deck that is only slightly aimed towards disruption. Without cards like him, bulky decks like Blissey MT, Gardevoir/Gallade and Magmortar would still be dominating. That was the worst and most boring format ever. I setup first, I win. The element of disruption is one the coolest things about SP Pokemon and you plan to take it out of the format? Ridiculous. RR-On will be a ridiculous format, dominated solely and completely by Jumpluff, since he is one of the best stage 2 options. The only thing keeping Pluff at bay is LuxChomp. We NEED SPs to make the format less boring. We need elements of surprise in the TCG. SPs (especially Crobat G and Power Spray) are the guys who gave us just that.
Also, SP decks are NOT easy to play at all. That's because the average SP deck has a way more complicated line-up, whereas regular Jumpluff/Flygon/many other stage 2 decks have:
1) Jumpluff/Flygon
2) Claydol
3) Uxie
4) Azelf
(5) Nidoqueen/Luxray)
Mainly, they focus around one or two attackers combined with a few supporters. SPs don't have a single Poke that is in any way superior at attacking or supporting, but they can all attack a bit and the Toolbox is their main support line. That's what makes every game fun and unpredictable.
The reason SP decks work is not their attack power, their HP, their Poke Powers or anything else. It's the versatility that's granted to them by something called the SP Toolbox, consisting of all the Pokemon, the TGIs, and Cyrus.
You conveniently forgot to mention Cyrus. Cyrus is what makes all combo cards in the SP engine searchable and is absolutely necessary. Poketurn and Power Spray are on their own less important, they merely make up for the fact that SPs do not possess huge durability or huge attack power (Poketurn a Bat). They even the field. Their HPs are quite low and being all basics and Xes gives them certain disadvantages, like little to no first turn action.
Not only that, removing Cyrus and Poketurn also removes the biggest baddest card in the format that is Luxray GL X. I won't say his Power is broken, because it's possible to play around it. The best thing about him is that he fits in every deck that is only slightly aimed towards disruption. Without cards like him, bulky decks like Blissey MT, Gardevoir/Gallade and Magmortar would still be dominating. That was the worst and most boring format ever. I setup first, I win. The element of disruption is one the coolest things about SP Pokemon and you plan to take it out of the format? Ridiculous. RR-On will be a ridiculous format, dominated solely and completely by Jumpluff, since he is one of the best stage 2 options. The only thing keeping Pluff at bay is LuxChomp. We NEED SPs to make the format less boring. We need elements of surprise in the TCG. SPs (especially Crobat G and Power Spray) are the guys who gave us just that.
Also, SP decks are NOT easy to play at all. That's because the average SP deck has a way more complicated line-up, whereas regular Jumpluff/Flygon/many other stage 2 decks have:
1) Jumpluff/Flygon
2) Claydol
3) Uxie
4) Azelf
(5) Nidoqueen/Luxray)
Mainly, they focus around one or two attackers combined with a few supporters. SPs don't have a single Poke that is in any way superior at attacking or supporting, but they can all attack a bit and the Toolbox is their main support line. That's what makes every game fun and unpredictable.
So your bashing decks that say i set-up i win, to vote for decks that say i mess up your setup first i win, if the format goes PL on then trust me you'll get bored of seeing nothing but luxchomp and blazeray or any other deck that can spam luxray Lv.X, at least with RR on the format won't be completely luxray builds and it look possible with sp cards being given substitutes E-Gain/DCE, Turn/Scoop-up. all you'll lose is Cyrus ( boohoo no card to prevent my hand from being disrupted by card like judge) and Powerspray (Oh i can't spray your brightlook, OH Wait! you can't spray mine either ).
And there plenty to fight pluff with, with no claydol the deck will slow down immensely and right now scizor cherrim can take it blow for blow, so if an old deck that nobody played because they love claydol too much can stand a chance why can't we find anything else a power snipe deck can work with pluff running low HP basics and the techs rarely have more than 100hp so blastoise fits the bill, the new kingdra can KO it with belt and watching you bench you won't get revenge killed plus a jirachi tech to devolve kill and candied pluffs.
Jumpluff is good but by no means unbeatable, and the format will only have 1 SP counter for PL-on or RR-on and even then it gets shut down by Dialga G, so RR on sp's can keep there speed, it just won't be a guaranteed T1 set-up
And there plenty to fight pluff with, with no claydol the deck will slow down immensely and right now scizor cherrim can take it blow for blow, so if an old deck that nobody played because they love claydol too much can stand a chance why can't we find anything else a power snipe deck can work with pluff running low HP basics and the techs rarely have more than 100hp so blastoise fits the bill, the new kingdra can KO it with belt and watching you bench you won't get revenge killed plus a jirachi tech to devolve kill and candied pluffs.
Jumpluff is good but by no means unbeatable, and the format will only have 1 SP counter for PL-on or RR-on and even then it gets shut down by Dialga G, so RR on sp's can keep there speed, it just won't be a guaranteed T1 set-up
StealthAngel667 said:
removing Cyrus and PokeTurn will in no way, shape, or form removes LuxGLX...there are still plenty of ways to get it to do Bright Look again...SSU, Clefable (HGSS), the upcoming Hunter LL supporter, etc...removing PokeTurn just means you can't brokenly spam it.....while I do agree with the disruption comment, and needing disuption in the game for surprise and excitement...I don't agree that it should be with just one group of cards...that is what is broken about SPs and all of their support...they are only useable by SPs...which is totally unbalancing...to be honest, there have been cards that cause disruption in the format, but because they weren't as unbalancing as the SP cards, they were passed over...let's take a look shall we:
Power Stoppage - Alakazam (MT) vs. TGI - Power Spray:
one is a Stage 2 pokemon (that doesn't have a stage 1, mind you) that is useable by all, the other is a trainer that is only useable if you have 3 SP pokemon in play...while Alakazam is more to setup, it isn't impossible to get it out...this is also more balancing because it can only be used once and there is a drawback of having to discard 2 cards to use it.....that's been around for some time now, why weren't people using it to disrupt powers like Claydol?
Pokemon Resets - Super Scoop-Up vs. TGI - PokeTurn:
both trainers...and to be honest both get used...however, one requires a flip, and the other just works only on SP pokemon...if there was a card that did essentially the exact same thing and was useable for all, that wouldn't be so bad but the fact that SPs have access to everything including their own specific support is what is broken about their support
Search - Cyrus' Conspiracy vs. Lapras (GE):
one is a supporter and only minimally searchable, the other is a pokemon that has to use an attack.....CC isn't really a broken card at all, it's just what it gets to go search for...it's non-SP counterpart is really fairly weak, an 80hp pokemon that has to use an attack (costing 1{W}) for the Cyrus effect and whose 2nd attack only does 20.....in the end it boils down to, one gives your opponent a prize, the other doesn't
SP pokemon in general have Stage 1 hp's as basics, and have fairly decent hitting attack for little cost...and the one of the most broken cards of the SP engine makes that cost even smaller...TGI - Energy Gain...that is where SPs get alot of their numerous first round matches...toss that in with a Crobat G and a PokeTurn, and you have yourself some donking capability...I've seen it all too many times...and using options of: Crobat G, Ambipom G, Promocroak G, DGX, Lucario GL, and Bronzong G...with a couple of attackers, doesn't constitute a complicated line-up...there really isn't anything unpredictable about SPs, you can ask anybody that knows me, and have played me with an SP deck...I can easily predict what they are going to do...actually, I don't even see how you say they are unpredictable...they show you pretty much everything that's going to their hand, because they search for it
a PT-on format would leave only one SP counter...Spiritomb (AR)...granted EVO decks (all EVO decks, not just Stage 2 decks) have Rare Candy and BTS...they lose Claydol and Uxie, which is what keeps EVO decks upto speed with the consistent SP Cyrus engine...without those even Jumpluff falls easily to SPs...Stage 1 decks might stand some semblance of a chance, but if they all they have to counter SPs is Spiritomb to slow them down, if the SP deck has any sniping ability, might as well hand it to the SP deck...consistency wins, and if EVO decks don't have the draw power to help increase consistency...then SP decks have nothing to stop them...ohh, and btw...Jumpluff gets beat by more than just LuxChomp, just because it hits so hard for so little cost doesn't mean it will dominate the meta.....Jumpluff is fragile...not Shuppet fragile, but fragle nonetheless...90hp and your opponent being able to control your damage output can easily back fire on you
an RR-on format...would not only drop all the SP counters and draw engines, but it would also drop BTS...leaving only Rare Candy and Spiritomb to assist in EVO setup...SPs, while they wouldn't have their super consistent Cyrus engine, still have plenty to use to setup with...especially being that alot of the Stage'd pokemon will have the same x2 weakness that they have...which is something else that EVO decks are losing...so there won't be a need for Lucario GL for real anymore...SPs still have Flint's Willpower, to compensate for the loss of E-Gain...they have Super Scoop-Up they can use to get back their LuxGLX and ChompCX...yea, they lose the really cool *coughbrokencough* cards, but they still have support, hp as basics that matches many Stage 1's, and lower cost attacks that hit pretty can hit decently without the Cyrus engine...EVO decks lose their super draw engines, the SP counters, and BTS...you still have some disruption in LuxGLX, Pokemon Reversal, among some others
even though I do hope for a refreshing and balancing RR-on rotation...I'm starting to prefer an SF-on rotation, just so SP players don't have to complain about losing their broken cards and having to play with the SP support that is actually balanced, instead of ignoring it...as far being bored with a "setup first/you win" format, I haven't seen that in a while, and I've grown rather tired of the "disrupt your game/I win because I got cards you can't use" format as it is now...it's cheap and boring at the same time...imo, balanced play without disruption is more fun than unbalanced play with disruption
sf on so we dont have a USELES drapion lvX
-So first, you argue that Cyrus is not that great and is on par with a setup Pokemon. Cyrus is inferior.
-Second, you argue that Spiritomb (both a setup and anti-setup Pokemon) is the only good alternative to Cyrus, and not good enough compared to Cyrus, because Cyrus can search for such AWESOME things. Cyrus is superior.
Whatever are you trying to say, exactly?
And you misread my post. I don't use the word Toolbox as the first SP 'toolbox' decks, those were just thrown together and didn't have the versatility that Luxray, SP Radar and to a lesser extent Garchomp brought to SP.
The meaning I meant is the fact that SPs have all kinds of tools at their disposal, which I further discuss as being the TGIs and some PT/RR/SV SP Pokes. It doesn't mean you use them all in one deck.
Also whether you find the format "boring" or not is completely out of the question. My post has always been about the format that will be most likely to come. The TCG is headed more towards other card games (and other usable strategies than just plain beatdown) with cards like Luxray and Power Spray, and I don't see why the TCG would discard all of those without one format where they can REALLY shine.
-Second, you argue that Spiritomb (both a setup and anti-setup Pokemon) is the only good alternative to Cyrus, and not good enough compared to Cyrus, because Cyrus can search for such AWESOME things. Cyrus is superior.
Whatever are you trying to say, exactly?
And you misread my post. I don't use the word Toolbox as the first SP 'toolbox' decks, those were just thrown together and didn't have the versatility that Luxray, SP Radar and to a lesser extent Garchomp brought to SP.
The meaning I meant is the fact that SPs have all kinds of tools at their disposal, which I further discuss as being the TGIs and some PT/RR/SV SP Pokes. It doesn't mean you use them all in one deck.
Also whether you find the format "boring" or not is completely out of the question. My post has always been about the format that will be most likely to come. The TCG is headed more towards other card games (and other usable strategies than just plain beatdown) with cards like Luxray and Power Spray, and I don't see why the TCG would discard all of those without one format where they can REALLY shine.
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