Discussion Standard Meta Tier List

TheDude133 said:
Greninja is Tier 2, close to Tier 1. Its biggest threat was Garbodor Garbotoxin, but now that that's not a focus point in decks like M-Mewtwo, and Mega decks are all but gone save M-Ray, Greninja has good match-ups against everything else. It has a good Garb/Espeon Match-up because it doesn't use a lot of items, can one-shot Garbodors, and has Field Blower to deal with Garbotoxin. The Drampa version is a bit harder for the deck, but still manageable if played right. And the Vileplume matchup is great for the deck because of Frogadier. You dont need Rare Candy, and you don't rely on too many items. I believe the guy who was 4th place in Mexico City beat a DeciPlume in Top 8 to make Top 4, before losing to Drampa/Garb

Not gonna lie, you shouldn't go based off what people say. Just learn what the strengths and weakness' are of each card, and when you see one card go down in effectiveness, you know another card is going up. M-Mewtwo was Tier 1 before Garbodor, now its Tier 2 MAYBE Tier 3. Because of that change, Espeon is now a better card. And because Field Blower is a card, you can get around Garbotoxin in Greninja, so that helps Greninja a ton, not to mention Choice Band being a great card. Look at the cards that are good now, see how consistent the deck is, then compare it to the strengths and weakness' of the other decks, then watch what cards come out, and its pretty easy to determine where the meta is gonna shift to. For example. Noivern GX could be a Tier 1-2 deck depending on where Gardevoir GX and Sylveon GX sit at, and the reprinting of Double Dragon Energy. But both of their deck's success depends on Metagross GX.

Edit: There are more factors into what will make or break a deck other than weakness, but you get the idea.
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Then why hasn't Greninja topped?
 
TheDude133 said:
lol wut It has. It took 4th in Mexico City like a week ago.
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Didn't know that. Regardless, 1 Top cut in 3 or 4 regionals (not sure about Birmingham) isn't tier 1 or 2. It has to cut more consistently for that in my books. Also, in his article on Six Prizes, Xander Pero explained how to beat Greninja with Espeon/Garb very well. Stage 2 GXs with 240+ HP are also coming, and there is still item lock. Greninja still has far too many bad matchups.
 
Latte1504 said:
Didn't know that. Regardless, 1 Top cut in 3 or 4 regionals (not sure about Birmingham) isn't tier 1 or 2. It has to cut more consistently for that in my books. Also, in his article on Six Prizes, Xander Pero explained how to beat Greninja with Espeon/Garb very well. Stage 2 GXs with 240+ HP are also coming, and there is still item lock. Greninja still has far too many bad matchups.
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Couple things here.

1. I don't know if there has been other tops in other regionals/tournaments, I haven't looked into it that far. Regardless, its still a tier 2 minimum deck.

2. Just because someone tells you how to beat a deck, doesn't mean it always will. Its called layering, They know how to beat me, but i know hot to beat them, but they know i know, etc.

3. The Stage 2 comment proves my point, so thank you for that. Also, there is only one viable stage 2 GX coming out, and that's Gardevoir, which has a bad Greninja match-up.

4. Greninja beat Deciplume in top 8 to go to top 4 in Mexico City.

Take another lap.
 
TheDude133 said:
Couple things here.

1. I don't know if there has been other tops in other regionals/tournaments, I haven't looked into it that far. Regardless, its still a tier 2 minimum deck.

2. Just because someone tells you how to beat a deck, doesn't mean it always will. Its called layering, They know how to beat me, but i know hot to beat them, but they know i know, etc.

3. The Stage 2 comment proves my point, so thank you for that. Also, there is only one viable stage 2 GX coming out, and that's Gardevoir, which has a bad Greninja match-up.

4. Greninja beat Deciplume in top 8 to go to top 4 in Mexico City.

Take another lap.
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If it were tier 2 it would have cut more.

Read it and tell me how you respond to his logic. It's the first article.

You can't deal enough bandage to kill the stage 2s sometimes.

How often does that happen?
 
Latte1504 said:
If it were tier 2 it would have cut more.

Read it and tell me how you respond to his logic. It's the first article.

You can't deal enough bandage to kill the stage 2s sometimes.

How often does that happen?
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By your logic of "it would've cut more" you would've had to do the research into what decks have cut where, and clearly you haven't. Greninja took top four at Indonesia in May BTW and top 32 in Birmingham in June.

I can read it, and agree/disagree with points he made, and go back and fourth about how the match-up plays out , speculating "well this could happen to give garb and edge or vise versa", or, accept the fact that they're on the same level (which they are) and both have strengths and weakness' not only to each other, but to other meta decks as well.

You're speculating. Saying you can't do enough damage brings in too many factors into the equation. Game state, draws, decks, how far into the game, these all have to be considered before saying "they can't do enough damage".

It's not about how often, it's about it happening at the right time. And Greninja beating Deciplume to make top 4 was the right time. This goes back into the second point about the Greninja/Garb match-up, its not about how often, its about it happening at the right time.

That's three laps, do you want to go for four?
 
TheDude133 said:
By your logic of "it would've cut more" you would've had to do the research into what decks have cut where, and clearly you haven't. Greninja took top four at Indonesia in May BTW and top 32 in Birmingham in June.
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Also Top 4 in a Milan Premier Event in May.
 
Oh for pete's sake guys. You're fighting over weather a Pokemon deck is good or not over the Internet. Come on! :rolleyes:
 
No-one ever wins this type of argument, you just both end up looking like losers :p Especially considering this is not even a results based Tier system. So all your evidence is moot blue corner. It's more like a popularity poll of what the community at large likes the most. So all your arguments are moot as well red corner :p

imo Greninja is probably about Tier 2. But if it were my imo, this list would look very different. Garb in Tier 1, anti-Garb in Tier 2, and decks-that-can-survive-Garb in Tier 3 :D

Steering the thread back on topic some, Fun in the Sun (Solgaleo/Rayqueza/Drampa) seems to be missing from the OP. It's very flexible and powerful, and championed over on Charizard Lounge who I hold good stock in. Can play it's way around ability lock, item lock, Trashalanche, energy denial, outpace big basics - very adaptable indeed. After playing around with it some, it's a ruddy strong deck. Unstoppable if you get up and running early, and pretty damn good at recovering from a slower start too. I didn't mention it since I hadn't seen any results to back my opinion up, but looking at the above linked posts - first place at Indonesia, and second place in Singapore - with the same player both times. It's probably worth including.

Tito's List: http://i.imgur.com/X5lQ7Ee.jpg
Andrew Wambolt's (Charizard Lounge) List: http://i.imgur.com/ThDqZnC.png
 
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Yog said:
No-one ever wins this type of argument, you just both end up looking like losers :p Especially considering this is not even a results based Tier system. So all your evidence is moot blue corner. It's more like a popularity poll of what the community at large likes the most. So all your arguments are moot as well red corner :p

imo Greninja is probably about Tier 2. But if it were my imo, this list would look very different. Garb in Tier 1, anti-Garb in Tier 2, and decks-that-can-survive-Garb in Tier 3 :D

Steering the thread back on topic some, Fun in the Sun (Solgaleo/Rayqueza/Drampa) seems to be missing from the OP. It's very flexible and powerful, and championed over on Charizard Lounge who I hold good stock in. Can play it's way around ability lock, item lock, Trashalanche, energy denial, outpace big basics - very adaptable indeed. After playing around with it some, it's a ruddy strong deck. Unstoppable if you get up and running early, and pretty damn good at recovering from a slower start too. I didn't mention it since I hadn't seen any results to back my opinion up, but looking at the above linked posts - first place at Indonesia, and second place in Singapore - with the same player both times. It's probably worth including.

Tito's List: http://i.imgur.com/X5lQ7Ee.jpg
Andrew Wambolt's (Charizard Lounge) List: http://i.imgur.com/ThDqZnC.png
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Thanks for the list have never heard of the deck till now I usually look at what's being played at league cups ask some questions and relate it to the top decks in the meta.

Regarding the kerfuffle that happened I have seen multiple top 8 spots taken by Greninja the past week and the deck has always lost to basically itself or weakness. The deck has a good chance at most decks in Tier 1 and it always showed promise so Greninja deserves a Tier 2 spot in my book.

I will be updating every decklist and the Tier's they belong in on the 19th I'm sorry the list is a bit outdated had to take care of some life things and FFXIV Stormblood also just got released so I've been pretty busy. Thank you guys for the continued information on list, Placements and most importantly your opinions enjoy the weekend guys and gals. o7
 
Trixss said:
Thanks for the list have never heard of the deck till now I usually look at what's being played at league cups ask some questions and relate it to the top decks in the meta.
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Yeah it's like a more streamlined version of a Solgaleo/Lurantis deck. Once you drop the kinda clunky Lurantis and replace with the new Rayqueza, now there is room for DCE instead of Grass energies, and a bit more room besides. Which opens the deck up to Drampa shenanigans, combo'd with Ultra Road and a fat 250HP Solgaleo, the opponent has to hit you sooner or later. It's got a better variety of weaknesses now too instead of all fire, as well as a nice balance of basic and evolved attackers etc.etc. Damn fine deck. I've been having a lot of success with it lately.

Pretty good article about it here: http://thecharizardlounge.com/2017/05/24/fun-in-the-sun-solgaleo-gxrayquaza/
 
Does the Turbo Darkrai deck really still deserve to be considered Tier 1? It hasn't had any recent Top Cuts and it doesn't fare well against either Garbodor or Vespiquen lists, which right now seem to be the best decks in the format.
 
Perfect_Shot said:
Does the Turbo Darkrai deck really still deserve to be considered Tier 1? It hasn't had any recent Top Cuts and it doesn't fare well against either Garbodor or Vespiquen lists, which right now seem to be the best decks in the format.
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Trust me just because Garbodor is out there it doesn't mean this deck cant perform it placed top 8 in brimmingham regionals, Third in Australia open and had a couple of top 8 and top 4 places in league cups. The deck is still able to deal immense amount of damage in such little time and still have enough hp left after a garbodor hits.
 
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