States Predictions

blargh257 said:
Magneboar
The REV
eelzone
Zekeels
Tyram
MTC

All of those decks will win at least 3 states.

Also Yanmega Prime could help with Terrakion.
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Yanmega won't help. Linear Attack isn't worth it, and Sonicboom doesn't apply weakness and resistance. It's not worth a Stage 2 and the resources wasted to equal hand sizes.

Also, you forgot Durant. It might not win 3+ Cities, but it'll remain a dominant force wherever Eels and Mewtwo-based decks are popular.
 
Furaigon said:
Yanmega won't help. Linear Attack isn't worth it, and Sonicboom doesn't apply weakness and resistance. It's not worth a Stage 2 and the resources wasted to equal hand sizes.

Also, you forgot Durant. It might not win 3+ Cities, but it'll remain a dominant force wherever Eels and Mewtwo-based decks are popular.
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oh wow i forgot about the no weakness and resistance effect. drat.
 
So from the testing I have done, Eel variants will destroy states. Primarily ZekEels.

Why?

Magneel, though it is fast and hits hard very consistently, is not the easiest thing to setup. To get a Magnezone out fast and consistently, you're going to need to candy into them. Catchering Magnemites and picking them off is not a hard thing to do, and even with ZekEels, Zekrom EX can OHKO it.

Under Eel Variants, the list will look something like this (in no particular order)

MTC
Truth
Corners
Tyram
Cake
 
yea, zekrom eels is rediculously fast, consistent and heavy hitting.

it can easily wipe through Exs through a faster set up and while ur taking 2 prizes at once, ur opponent only takes 1.

Zekeels also has fast recovery. a well made zekeels is very hard to beat, even against trainer lock
 
ZekEels and Magnezone are most likely still going to be the best decks in the format. The reason I say this is because they are the only decks that have lost nothing and gained everything in Next Destinies. MTC will also probably be really good, but it has quite a few weak points.
 
Card Slinger J said:
What's wrong with running Cilan to get the Grass needed to attack with Virizion? Inconsistent I guess? It's a prize trade off yes but at least they aren't EX's where both players get 2 prizes each thus making the situation even worse.

Maybe Tropius UD is a better counter, sure it has 90 HP but it's second attack costs only {C}{C}{C} for 40 damage being 80 damage to Terrakion and it has -20 {F} Resistance despite being weak to {L}. It can survive by 20 HP against Terrakion unless it's equipped with Eviolite where it only takes 50 damage instead of 70.

Tropius just needs a DCE and 1 of any energy to use Cutting Wind and since EelZone runs DCE for Zekrom EX that fits the bill nicely. The only problem is you need to watch out for Lost Remover and Crushing Hammer since those cards are on the rise due to the EX's using DCE like crazy. Durant runs those anti-energy cards like crazy but If you need a way to stall against Donphan and counter against Terrakion then Tropius might do the trick.
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Here's a good counter. Anything that can deal 130 damage. Seriously, why do you even need {G} types? Surprise Shaymin EX drop would work better.
 
blargh257 said:
Magneboar
The REV
eelzone
Zekeels
Tyram
MTC

All of those decks will win at least 3 states.

Also Yanmega Prime could help with Terrakion.
Click to expand...
Imo, the success of TyRam will directly depend on the success of Durant. TyRam can stand up to MTC, Zekeels, Eelzone, and Magneboar, but ZekEels does a slightly better job against all of these decks. The only point where TyRam really shines over it is against Durant. Since you don't even have it listed, I'd remove TyRam or add Durant. If it were me, I'd add Durant. People underestimate that deck a lot.

Also, what's The REV? Lol. Reshiram/Emboar/Victini? That deck is way overhyped. It won't pass Tier 2.
 
Not gonna argue with Celebi Not gonna argue with Celebi Not gonna argue with Celebi

Durant
TyRam
ReshiBoar
ZekEels
EelZone
MTC
CaKE

These will all do very well at States. From testing they have all done amazing.
 
:p

Reshiboar is a good deck but it's outclassed by other things. If it had landed in any other format, it would have been amazing. But it's simply not as good as the Eelektrik builds. In this format, Zekrom-EX is far better than Reshiram-EX because it doesn't have unreliable effects as part of its main attack and it's better against Mewtwo. Plus a deck with only three evolved cards is way more consistent and less cramped than a deck with Emboar. The Eel variants also don't have a constant free prize on the bench (Victini). All these little things add up to a difference in tier. The only thing Reshiboar has over Eels is the weakness, but a good player can just remove their Terrakions before they do too much damage.
 
Is Zekeels better than Magneel? Both of them seem like a viable option for states, but I'm not sure which is better. Also, is reshiphlosion still viable? It has rocky helmet, magnezone, and mewtwo EX to make it better.
 
The things that ReshiBoar has over a deck like ZekEels or EelZone are three very important things.

1) Easier to set up. It is much easier to set up a Stage 2 than two or more Stage 1's, but maybe that is just my opinion. ZekEels and EelZone would also have trouble getting energy because they don't play Cilan, and also getting that energy in the discard.

2) SSU. It's that good.

3) Speed paired with damage output. Turn 2 150 damage. Not a single deck can manage that, except Magnezone if it got 2 Eelektriks and is willing to waste a few resources. ZekEels can only manage to do 150 once, maybe twice if they have a Switch or a DCE in hand.
 
alexmf2 said:
The things that ReshiBoar has over a deck like ZekEels or EelZone are three very important things.

1) Easier to set up. It is much easier to set up a Stage 2 than two or more Stage 1's, but maybe that is just my opinion. ZekEels and EelZone would also have trouble getting energy because they don't play Cilan, and also getting that energy in the discard.
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Let's look at the cards needed in each situation. We have to apply for Catcher, so an extra basic is necessary.

Emboar: 2 Tepig, 1 Rare Candy, 1 Emboar. (3 searchable, 1 unsearchable.)

Eelektrik: 3 Tynamo, 2 Eelektrik (5 searchable.)

So Eelektrik requires one more card. However, with a well-built list, five searchable cards is just as easy to get out, if not easier, than three searchable cards plus one unsearchable one.

The other, and more important, argument is that ZekEels doesn't need two Eelektriks out T2 to start hitting right away. With one Eelektrik out, Zekrom or Zekrom-EX can start attacking T2 if there's a manual attachment each turn. With a DCE, Zekrom-EX doesn't even need an Eel out to start hitting T2. Mewtwo can start hitting T1 if necessary. If you really need that early-game power, there's always Thundurus.

We also have to look at recovery. Because in this format, it's very to OHKO an Eel or Emboar.

2nd+ Emboar: 2 Tepig, 1 Rare Candy, 1 Emboar. (3 searchable, 1 unsearchable.)

3rd+ Eelektrik: 2 Tynamo, 1 Eelektrik. (3 searchable.)

So even if you argue that it's easier to get that early-game pressure going with Emboar, Eelektrik can keep the pressure going much more easily. Furthermore, if I take out your Emboar, you have no acceleration left on the field. If you take out one of my Eelektriks, I still have another one getting energy back.

2) SSU. It's that good.
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Okay, sure. You have SSU. But can that really make up for everything I said in post 31, plus the stuff I mention above? Definitely not. Plus there's always the argument that ZekEels can use SSU as well if it's really game-breaking, or it can use the less flippy Max Potion. Obviously SSU will be less effective in ZekEels, but if I pick up my Zekrom or Zekrom-EX with it, I can just drop it, double Dynamotor and manually attach one energy or one DCE to be fully charged again.

3) Speed paired with damage output. Turn 2 150 damage. Not a single deck can manage that, except Magnezone if it got 2 Eelektriks and is willing to waste a few resources. ZekEels can only manage to do 150 once, maybe twice if they have a Switch or a DCE in hand.
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Based on this, I think part of the issue may be that you're just not playing with/against good Eelektrik decks. I can easily Strong Volt four times in a game. It's very easy to have a Switch, Junk Arm, or DCE in hand when that's 10-11 cards in your deck. If you can't get one of those cards almost every turn you need it, your list is a big part of the problem. When I first started playing the deck, I would whiff Catchers, Switches, etc. After I got the hang of it and fixed up my list, I was basically able to do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted to.

Also, the Magnezone statement doesn't make much sense. Zekrom-EX can do 150 T2 more easily than Magnezone can. But ultimately, the real question here is whether or not T2 150 is necessary. Usually the speed decks will target an opponent's support before they fully setup. Unevolved basics have 30-60HP. Doing 150 to these cards is way overkill and you burn a lot of resources to do it. Sure, you can kill some Zekroms,Tornadus, Terrakions, or whatever. But you risk putting your Reshiram-EX at 130HP. Mewtwo can just come up and steal the prize lead back with a PlusPower or three energy.
 
Darn it, I started another back and forth >.<

Let's just wait for States and see what happens there, unless you are willing to do a few games on PlayTCG, which I would be up for if you wanted to.
 
well zekrom and eels will probably do great, and a tech for them could actually be zapdos. It would suck in the mirror matchup so it would probably be a one of.

I'm looking to see how these decks do:

Ex.dek (Like six corners but with mainly exs. sometimes runs vileplume, electrode, ND vanilluxe.)

donchamp L (L for landorus. My list is pretty good.)


ChandyPlume (This is by some people supposed dead. I'm working on a new list for the current format such as a 1-1 scizor tech for MTC,Durant,six corners etc.)

But otherwise I think most states will be really surprising.
 
eels are definitely faster than reshiboar and probably more consistent but once reshiboar is set-up it can load up exes to one shot anything in the field ( one opponent remarked to me this morning that loading up a mewtwo ex with emboar was so cheesy --- well his high hp pokemon got one shot i dont blame him). you only need one reshiboar set-up and your good to go. there is a lot of potential in comeback wins with piloting Reshiboar.

if you include pignite in the equation then the emboar line is searchable. heavy ball takes care of pignite and emboar. if you include twins then rare candy is now searchable.

it all boils down to the reshiboar list.

i have a reshiboar build that basically swept a zek eel deck ( it was a 6-0 sweep) and a zek ex eel deck (6-2) but i guess what i did was exception more than rule. i think it impressed the zek eel player that he sent me a request for my list so he can test it before the coming european cup. Most likely he wont pilot it because it takes guts to pilot my list because it is unconventional and crazy.

reshiboar most likely wont top the states charts since there will be fewer people who will be piloting it. i expect a lot of people piloting eel decks and i wont blame them for doing so. this is the era of netdecking so people will use decks that has less criticism and has a lot of positive reviews. eel decks fall into this category.
 
Me and Celebi just played a few games on PlayTCG. We are 2-2, we are going to do some more later.
 
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