The Planeswalkers of the Multiverse: A Magic the Gathering Discussion Group

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Ah, yes, the thing with your suggestions, and the reason I don't play Nexus or Mox Opal is simply money. Moxes are $20 each and Nexi are $10 each. Your suggestions would cost me an extra $120. Also, I have run lists on Cockatrice with Moxes and Nexi, and found that I can only run 2-3 Moxes. They become dead late game and often get stuck in my hand if I already have one out.

If I had the money, I'd do something like this:

-2 War Zone
-4 Plains
-4 Spellbomb
+4 Nexus
+3 Mox Opal
+2 Hero of Bladehold
+1 something

Also, let's offiially welcome syneptus.
 
Ok guys, until Juliacoolo elaborates, no decklists for a while.

On another note, Innistrad mechanics have been revealed on the Wizards website! Double-sided cards look awesome... but will ignite a whole pile of arguments. Flashback returning isn't surprising, but great nonetheless. Morbid is an interesting new mechanic, and makes removal spells a lot more powerful. It will also make players think twice before chump-blocking or even trading in combat.

New topic: What are your thoughts on Innistrad so far?
 
The new double-faced mechanic seems way too complex. Eliminating the standard back of a Magic card in the past has been almost exclusively the rite of tokens and special cards. Allowing the same action to be conducted onto playable Magic cards seems like it is going to confuse a lot of people. There were better ways to represent this mechanic, in my opinion. As far as the new cards that represent this mechanic go, it seems like there is some definite room for them constructed. While "Gatstaf Shepherd" is going to be difficult to profit from, "Ludevic's Test Subject" looks like a very playable constructed card. It's got the right color to gain the awesome support of control magic and counter spells, and I think proliferate-based decks are going to have fun casting a 13/13 trampler. With a little work, "Ludevic's Abomination" could end games for the opponent's of blue-based proliferation strategies.

"Morbid" seems like it could manifest itself as a strong, potent ability on the right card, though I was hoping for "Bloodthirst" support, to be honest. In any case, there are many good removal spells that can trigger morbid, but there are also cards with abilities that sacrifice your own creatures, like Vampires, who are definitely going to get some kickback from this new set. I wouldn't be surprised to see some good "Morbid" cards around the corner. "Hollowhenge Scavenger" is not exactly what the doctor ordered. It's a draft card, but I don't see any potential here for constructed.

The return of "Flashback" is cool news, and "Moan of the Unhallowed" is going to be loads of fun on Zombie-tribal-based strategies (which I hope get significant support in this set).

"Curse" seems like a fun sub-mechanic. There was mention of cards that make reference to the sub-type, so some people are definitely going to become "Cursed" in limited and maybe even constructed. "Curse of the Bloody Tome" doesn't seem all that strong of a card considering there are much more impressive things you can do for that kind of mana in blue, so overall not too exciting a card.
 
I think Vampires might be good enough, along with the Zendikar support, to be a Tier 2 deck in Modern.

Stiched Drake looks really good, as in, constructed playable (possibly in the Mono Blue Phanatasmal deck?).

I don't know about you, but I've already started a Zombie tribal deck. This is my list so far:

4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Cemetery Reaper

3x Moan of the Unhallowed

Waiting on the rest of Innistrad for more Zombie goodness.
 
So far there are a couple of cards that I'm going to look out for, "Stitched Drake" being very close to top of the list. The "drawback" of exiling a creature card is not difficult to pull off at all, and in blue, a 3/4 flier for three is welcomed.

"Mikaeus, the Lunarch" is as good as you're willing to pay mana for it, and aside from being able to boost its own p/t by tapping, its final ability taps and removes a counter to put a counter on every other creature you control. In white, that ability is awesome, and White Weenie-type strategies could easily abuse the cleric.

"Bloodgift Demon" in my mind has a lot of potential, for five mana you get a solid 5/4 flier who can either increase your draw at a cost or ping your opponent's life total at cost. A subtle card, and we do still have "Consecrated Sphinx", but I wouldn't be surprised to see this teched into a black-based control strategy.

So far several Vampires (and a card that transforms into a vampire) have been revealed. "Vampire Interloper" seems like it could definitely warrant in a spot in the archetype. A 2/1 evasive creature for two mana is solid in that strategy, and the "drawback" is offset by the fact that, in Vampires, you should probably be attacking more often than not anyway.

I'm not sure how I feel about "Screeching Bat". There's nothing wrong with it, I guess. A 2/2 flier for three mana isn't inherently bad, and for four mana during the upkeep, it turns into a 5/5. A 5/5 for four mana is great, so Screeching Bat is at least good for limited in my mind.

"Bloodcrazed Neonate" seems pretty underwhelming. It has the potential to keep getting stronger, but to do so it has to make contact with the opponent's life total. That and it is off-color, so you'll have to resort to your Zendikar lands to fuel its cost.

"Olivia Voldaren" is interesting, but its definitely expensive and the rewards for casting it might not be optimal. Still, the ability to take control of any card on the field (first ability target creature, turns into a vampire, second ability take control of target creature) is definitely cool, so who knows.

"Devil's Play" is going to be fun. "Heat Ray" with flashback is going to loads of fun in limited, and I'm sure there's room for it some constructed strategy (perhaps using the abilities of "Koth of the Hammer" to accelerate your mana, or perhaps "Chandra, the Firebrand" to copy a mana acceleration spell?)

"Mayor of Avabruck" is a cool card for sure. No matter what form it is in, it pumps your Werewolf deck. Now all we need is a card that will discourage our opponent from casting a spell...

"Boneyard Wurm". 'Nuff said.

The return of "Ghost Quarter" also ensures loads of fun.
 
Okay, Juliacoolo got back to me, and we can post decklists as long as they are in spoilers tags.

Decklist

Here are my thoughts on some of the cards I haven't already mentioned:

Boneyard Wurm - This could be the Tarmogoyf of the set - and it's uncommon! Having Memory Adept and some other cards milling yourself, it could get out of hand pretty quickly.

Mikaeus - Possibly, as a finisher in a White Weenie deck with cards like Elite Inquisitor, Mirran Crusader and the like. This with Hero of Bladehold is pretty cool. I might consider it for my Tempered Steel deck.

Devil's Play - Better than Fireball, in my opinion, although it is a rare. Definitely a bomb in limited. Fun card, a slim chance for constructed playability.

Mayor of Avabruck - Very cool in a Werewolf tribal deck. Making a 2/2 every turn is awesome.

Olivia Varden - Best card for limited so far, although it's probably too mana intensive for constructed.

Qhost Quarter - This was one of the cards I was hoping would be reprinted sometime during the block. It's not nearly as good as Tectonic Edge, since they still break even on land, but you don't have to pay any mana, which is nice.

The enemy duals - I called these when M12 reprinted the core set duals. It's awesome, and replaces the Zendikar fetches for enemy colour support - at a cheaper price, too, I would assume.
 
nabby, that's a great idea (concerning self-mill for "Boneyard Wurm"). Also see the newly revealed "Wreath of Geists".

The new dual lands look amazing, btw. Opposing colors is cool, but in reality I can think of many decks that will be thankful these are released.

The boosters were revealed, and it looks like we might get new versions of Garruk and Liliana.
 
Liliana was already confirmed, and most people suspected Garruk. Also, Maro revealed that one of the Planeswalker's in the set will have 5 loyalty abilities. 5! I'm suspecting Liliana. I hope they make it a four mana card, because they probably won't make another five, a three mana one would be broken, and a six or seven mana one would be unplayable.

The will be a few Standard decks that use the enemy-coloured duals (Birthing Pod decks are generally three colour, and could benefit from them). I think people will be more open to running decks with enemy colours (U/R, B/G, etc) now that these are here. Overall, I think they really benefit the game and I'm pumped for them.

Wreath of Geists is another good way to do that. Aura's generally aren't as reliable as creatures, but if you get one on a Thrun,,,
 
Sorry for the double post but - - - Liliana of the Veil has been revealed! I was wrong on a few counts - she's not 4 mana, and she doesn't have 5 loyalty abilities - but she still seems pretty good.

Liliana of the Veil - [1]
Planeswalker - Liliana (M)
[+1] Each player discards a card.
[-2] Target player sacrifices a creature.
[-6] Seperate all permanents target player controls into two piles. That player sacrifices all permanents in the pile of his or her choice.


Well. At first I was underwhelmed, and then I remembered that it only cost 3 mana. That said, this card (assuming it's not an obscene price) will fit perfectly in my Zombie tribal deck. It helps me dump fodder for Cemetery Reaper along with Moan of the Unhallowed into the grave. It decimates my opponents army, and wins if you get off it's ultimate.

Here's my Zombie tribal deck so far (now U/B). It's pretty aggressive, but my main concern is getting enough creatures in the grave to fuel the Reaper and the Drake. I was considering self-milling with Memory Adept, or even that stupid Curse, but it doesn't seem to be the answer. Jace proved to be too slow and the Curse was completely ineffective.

4x Diregraf Ghoul (this card is being underrated by lots of people)
4x Cemetery Reaper
4x Stitched Drake (just realized it's a Zombie

3x Despise
3x Zombie Infestation
3x Dismember
3x Moan of the Unhallowed
2x Call to the Grave

3x Liliana of the Veil

4x Darkslick Shores
4x Drowned Catacombs
Xx Swamp
Xx Island

Sideboard:

3x Skinrender

3x Torpor Orb
1x Dismember
2x Black Sun's Zenith

(29 cards + lands MB)
(9/15 sideboard)

Obviously all cards are subject to change, but it seems like it has potential. Any suggestions?
 
"Liliana of the Veil" seems quite competitive in mind. At a competitively priced 3-mana CMC, Liliana's three abilities are mighty ones. Her first ability forces each player to discard a card from her hand. Obviously, in a black deck, the price of one card isn't so bad at all, seeing as your opponent's hand size will already be reduced by such disruptive spells as "Duress", "Inquisition of Kozilek", and the new "Despise". In any case, your opponent will feel the pain much more than you when it comes to discarding cards. Also, in Innistrad, sending cards to the graveyard isn't always a bad thing. Aside from flashback returning, I am sure there will be many ways to abuse cards falling into your graveyard.

Liliana, at the price of two loyalty, has a second ability that operates the same way as "Cruel Edict". At the very worst, your opponent is going to lose a creature, and for three mana that's not bad at all.

Liliana's ultimate ability is a very powerful weapon at your disposable, making your opponent choose between two piles of his permanents (so much better than just creatures; remember, lands are also permanents), and making the impossible decision of which one to keep. No matter what your opponent decides on, the losses with be unimaginable.


Speaking of black, it just got powerful new six-drop in "Reaper from the Abyss". First of all, it's quite efficient. For six mana, you get a 6/6 flier, which by itself is going to cause problems for your opponent. Second of all, its "Morbid" ability is insane. It is an ability that is going to cleanse the field very quickly. During the end step of either player's turn, if any creature died during that turn, you get to kill a non-Demon. Needless to say, creatures die all the time for many reasons. The most obvious reason, to block the newly created 6/6 flying Demon (who is immune to Doom Blade, by the way).
 
A couple things to keep in mind:

1) We won't have Inquisition or Duress once Innistrad comes out.
2) Keep in mind that the Reaper's ability is mandatory, so if an opponent has no legal targets for the Reaper's ability, you may have to destroy one of your own creatures.
 
nabby101 said:
A couple things to keep in mind:

1) We won't have Inquisition or Duress once Innistrad comes out.
2) Keep in mind that the Reaper's ability is mandatory, so if an opponent has no legal targets for the Reaper's ability, you may have to destroy one of your own creatures.
Click to expand...

That is correct, I wasn't sure of the exact timelime of the new format, but you see that I did incluce Despise in the list, which is a legal card for the new format that disrupts your opponent's hand.

Also, if your opponent isn't playing any creatures against your six/six flier, you're going to win soon IMO.


On a different topic, I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are on "Stromkirk Noble". Preventing humans from blocking it is a highly useful and efficient ability in my opinion, even if it is maybe a bit too specific. But when you think about all the decks right now employing human cards, I think "Stromkirk Noble" can be highly efficient. "Azure Mage", for example, is starting to see play in control matchups as a mirror-beater. "Mirran Crusader" and "Puresteel Paladin" are also of now relevance in blocking the vampire. Not to mention "Hero of Bladehold" and "Hero of Oxid Ridge". While most decks are going to have creatures that can block "Stromkirk", those same decks will also probably have a lot of creatures that won't. The best thing about "Stromkirk" is that it gets bigger and bigger after each successful direct attack on your opponent's life total. That means against a deck that can't block "Stromkirk", it is essentially a win-condition. In my mind, aggressive red-strategies and Vampires are going to give this card a lot of mileage. It seems like a solid card in general and it's the right price -- competitive price -- at just a single red mana.


Also nabby for your zombie tribal they just previewed "Rooftop Storm" for 5U you get an Enchantment that lets you cast all of your Zombie creature spells for zero. Splashing blue obviously gives you lots of cool things to add into your deck as well, such as Control or Counter magic.
 
Yeah, I read the articles - loved the "interview" with Stormkirk Noble. I looked at Rooftop Storm, but I don't think it's needed. It's a win-more card, unless I cut the Ghouls and turn the deck into a more controlling type. However, in that case, there'll be less Zombies to cast for free. Overall, I think the Storm is powerful but unneeded.

As for Stormkirk Noble, he will probably be good in the Black/Red Vampire deck that is sure to crop up once Innistrad is released. He isn`t Goblin Guide, but that might be the spot that he fills in a Mono-Red deck. I`m not sure why Wizards put him and Bloodcrazed Neonate in the same set - the Noble is simply better.

Skirsdag High Priest (previewed by LSV on Channel Fireball) is nice to, probably in that same Vampire deck with Stormkirk Noble.
 
A Planeswalker with five loyalty abilities? Meet Garruk Relentless...

Garruk Relentless 3G
Planeswalker -- Garruk

When Garruk Relentless has two or fewer loyalty counters on him, transform him.

0 -- Garruk Relentless deals 3 damage to target creature. That creature deals damage equal to its power to him.

0 -- Put a 2/2 green Wolf creature token onto the battlefield.

Loyalty: 3

When Garruk transforms, he turns into something... beastly.

Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
Planeswalker -- Garruk

Garruk is black and green.

+1 -- Put a 1/1 black Wolf creature token with deathtouch onto the battlefield.

-1 -- Sacrifice a creature. If you do, search your library for a creature card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.

-3 Creatures you control gain trample and get +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard.

I like this new Garruk, but I have worries about whether or not he can cut it in competitive. In order to Transform him, you have to put him in "Shock"-range, or less. Whatever deck uses Garruk, it's going to need a solid defense to prevent Garruk from dying during your opponent's turn. A two-loyalty Planeswalker is going to be incredibly easy to kill. Unfortunately, "Moonmist" only transforms Humans, so this far at least there seems no other way to Transform Garruk. If you do Transform him, however, he becomes pretty amazing. I don't need to tell you how good generating a token that kill almost anything is. Likewise, the "Survival" ability is pretty cool. Garruk's ultimate is only good as you want it to be. If you want it to end the game, you're going to have to make some radical adjustments to your deck.

Whether Garruk is viable or not, I guess we will find out.
 
Ok, Garruk's awesome, and so is the art. However, as you said, it will be hard to transform him, and when you do he'll be very fragile. I don't know if there's enough small creatures being played for Garruk to be great. I guess you could make a Wolf token, and then deals 3 damage to it, then put Garruk down to 1 and flip it, but that leaves him vulnerable to burn and any creature's attacking.

But for his ultimate... going back to Boneyard Wurm and U/G self-mill control... it could be devastating.

Also, Mindshrieker looks pretty sweet. Being able to randomly mill either person and pump him out of burn/Dismember range seems cool. Get them while they're $2-3. This might even go in my Zombie tribal deck, even though it's not a Zombie.

Also, Endless Ranks of the Dead is another Zombie support card that doesn't seem good enough.
 
I really like "Fiend Hunter", it's an "Oblivion Ring" that is restricted to creatures, on a stick. A 1/3 stick, to be exact. I think it will see some play in White-weenie strategies for sure, in that kind of play this ability is undoubtedly useful.

"Skirsdag High Priest" seems like it will have some interesting constructed applications. While the requirements are definitely time-exhausting and resource-depleting, like it or not, a 5/5 flying demon can cause real problems, real fast for your opponent. Also, is getting two other creatures out difficult for black? No, not at all.

Also Werewolves seem like a decent deck for Standard, playing "Moonmist" to transform some of the more powerful ones. A pure green or a green-red variant would be pretty cool.
 
R/G Werewolves and B/R Vampires both look like they will be viable decks. The White Weenie deck with Fiend Hunter, Elite Inquisitor, Mirran Crusader, Hero of Bladehold, etc looks great. Possibly Mentor of the Meek too.

Fiend Hunter will probably be a nice dollar or so uncommon, and taken highly in draft. Journey to Nowhere + a 1/3 body is very nice.

I don't know how good Moonmist will be. It seems good in the werewolf deck, but I don't know. It could prove to be nothing more than an overcosted Fog. I'm hoping it will be good though, even though Werewolves probably aren't for me.
 
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