Alright guys, I've had enough of this - as a professor, as a player, and as a game developer and judge for other games, I need to vent, and I hope people will see what's going on and get behind me on this.
Pokemon NEEDS a consistent, comprehensive rules document that outlines general cases for cards, so that there aren't wishy-washy interpretations about trainers, powers, and attacks that contradict one another.
The thing that started all this is the difference between Detect, Portrait, Regi Move, and Roast Reveal. The thing in common here is that they can all be used to make null plays, and according to the general rulings being handed down by TPCi, you can't do something that all players observing the decision know won't have an effect. This means, for example, you can't by this ruling attack a defender-augmented pokemon with a 20 damage attack that has no secondary effect, because it is a null play. You end your turn without going to the attack step. Doing this repeatedly has generated stalling penalties, from my own observations (I have never given one for this myself, most people don't do it).
Magby TRR and Jirachi's Detour, in the Compendium, states that if you "can't or don't" meet the requirements for the supporter, it fails. This gives you a choice to make a null play with the attack, that contradicts the more current general rule.
Portrait is its closest companion. Here the interesting ruling is on Engineer's Adjustments. If Engineer's Adjustments is their only supporter in hand, and you have an energy card, the current ruling is that you MUST discard the card. The problem is your opponent does not have complete information here, but is observing this decision. It could give your opponent information about your deck, and hinder your play, if you are forced to discard. By the general line of other rulings, because the hand is not a public zone to both players (but the revealed card being decided on IS) the player can choose not to discard.
Regi Move and Roast Reveal are my other rant, this time entirely on null plays. The current ruling on Regi Move is that you can discard two cards if the opponent's pokemon is evolved, and make a null play. This is, again, by this line, illegal. A similar that got a player at (iirc) Regionals 2010 a game loss for gamesmanship by using Roast Reveal with no energy in his hand to bait power sprays. By any kind of logic you use to define the rules of a game played by humans (not necessarily computers). While these are no longer equivalent plays (you cannot use Regi Move and choose not to discard, unlike what the 'ruling' on it says) there is still an issue of null plays going on here.
There are a lot of other, smaller problems, but this is going to snowball if something isn't done. I urge everyone here with an interest in consistent, competitive play, and easier, less paranoid judging, to post in support of this so we can take it to TPCi and get some real professionals to write a comprehensive rules document for the game.
Finally - how is a new player supposed to know ANY of this stuff? Compendium is not official and only somewhat supported - and not managed by ANY professional in the field of logic, documentation, or game development. This is a dangerous combination to be used in competitive events like Nationals, especially since the average player I talk to at League, Battle Roads, etc, either does not know about it, or does not trust it because it isn't official. It can be of help for judging consistency, but so can tournament minutes - the head judges of majors should be taking AND posting these to the general public, with all names omitted.
Mods: Move this where you want, but this really has to be seen and commented on by players and judges. If we want Pokemon outside Japan to be taken even remotely seriously as a competitive game, this has to happen.
Edit: Too late at night, Detect --> Detour.
Edit 2: Regice's Regi Move cannot be used without discard - this was a judge mistake.
Pokemon NEEDS a consistent, comprehensive rules document that outlines general cases for cards, so that there aren't wishy-washy interpretations about trainers, powers, and attacks that contradict one another.
The thing that started all this is the difference between Detect, Portrait, Regi Move, and Roast Reveal. The thing in common here is that they can all be used to make null plays, and according to the general rulings being handed down by TPCi, you can't do something that all players observing the decision know won't have an effect. This means, for example, you can't by this ruling attack a defender-augmented pokemon with a 20 damage attack that has no secondary effect, because it is a null play. You end your turn without going to the attack step. Doing this repeatedly has generated stalling penalties, from my own observations (I have never given one for this myself, most people don't do it).
Magby TRR and Jirachi's Detour, in the Compendium, states that if you "can't or don't" meet the requirements for the supporter, it fails. This gives you a choice to make a null play with the attack, that contradicts the more current general rule.
Portrait is its closest companion. Here the interesting ruling is on Engineer's Adjustments. If Engineer's Adjustments is their only supporter in hand, and you have an energy card, the current ruling is that you MUST discard the card. The problem is your opponent does not have complete information here, but is observing this decision. It could give your opponent information about your deck, and hinder your play, if you are forced to discard. By the general line of other rulings, because the hand is not a public zone to both players (but the revealed card being decided on IS) the player can choose not to discard.
Regi Move and Roast Reveal are my other rant, this time entirely on null plays. The current ruling on Regi Move is that you can discard two cards if the opponent's pokemon is evolved, and make a null play. This is, again, by this line, illegal. A similar that got a player at (iirc) Regionals 2010 a game loss for gamesmanship by using Roast Reveal with no energy in his hand to bait power sprays. By any kind of logic you use to define the rules of a game played by humans (not necessarily computers). While these are no longer equivalent plays (you cannot use Regi Move and choose not to discard, unlike what the 'ruling' on it says) there is still an issue of null plays going on here.
There are a lot of other, smaller problems, but this is going to snowball if something isn't done. I urge everyone here with an interest in consistent, competitive play, and easier, less paranoid judging, to post in support of this so we can take it to TPCi and get some real professionals to write a comprehensive rules document for the game.
Finally - how is a new player supposed to know ANY of this stuff? Compendium is not official and only somewhat supported - and not managed by ANY professional in the field of logic, documentation, or game development. This is a dangerous combination to be used in competitive events like Nationals, especially since the average player I talk to at League, Battle Roads, etc, either does not know about it, or does not trust it because it isn't official. It can be of help for judging consistency, but so can tournament minutes - the head judges of majors should be taking AND posting these to the general public, with all names omitted.
Mods: Move this where you want, but this really has to be seen and commented on by players and judges. If we want Pokemon outside Japan to be taken even remotely seriously as a competitive game, this has to happen.
Edit: Too late at night, Detect --> Detour.
Edit 2: Regice's Regi Move cannot be used without discard - this was a judge mistake.
