OU: Strategy The X and Y Metagame Discussion Thread

RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

I wouldn't say Outrage is terrible in any way. It's still the most powerful physical Dragon-type move in the game. The only things that come close are Dragon Rush, which has piss-poor accuracy, and Dragon Claw, which is weak as hell and won't break anything. You shouldn't seriously expect Dragon-types to sweep with those moves (unless it's SubSD Garchomp w/ Dragon Claw, which is a bad set with Togekiss now), nor should you expect Outrage to be idiotically spammed with a fairy waiting in the wing. Play smart; you don't setup your SD Terrakion with a CB Scizor, Scarf Keldeo, Latios, etc. still alive. The same is true with the way Outrage is setup in this metagame except with the Fairy-type. I thought this was an easy concept to understand.

Also, no Fairy-type will ever switch in on a physical Dragon-type unless it's a really bulky Togekiss. Most Fairy-types will be forced to come in on a revenge kill due to their poor average Defense. You aren't going to take an Earthquake from CB Garchomp, Dragonite, and Haxorus, or a Fusion Bolt from CB Kyurem-B anytime soon.

Worse? Sure. Terrible / avoid at all costs / why are you running this? Nahhhh.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

That's actually a good point , however note that while having poor defenses, there are Fairies who can also easily OHKO Dragons with a Moonblast and CS, bar Dragonite and its Multiscale. Many Fairies also pack a lot of HP, again causing Dragons trouble. And additionally, while secondary STABs work on Fairies, the majority of Dragons can't run a Steel or Poison move (Goodra is great here, considering its high SpD and the fact that it can learn Sludge Bomb). All in all, although you're probably right and Outrage isn't a completely dumb choice, it still means you can't use Dragon STAB while you're opponent still haves a Fairy up. And that's bad.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

If Keeper of the NIght is right, then none of these moves have been changed at all.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Physically bulky fairies are a bit of a rarity, which is rather disappointing my my opinion because the type seems made for taking physical hits.

Like the only ones that stick out are Granbull (90/75 with Intimidate), Togekiss (85/95) and Mega Mawile (50/125). Out of all of them, I'd wager to say that Togekiss is the most viable. Granbull sucks, while Mega Mawile does hit hard but its really slow.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Astra said:
Physically bulky fairies are a bit of a rarity, which is rather disappointing my my opinion because the type seems made for taking physical hits.

Like the only ones that stick out are Granbull (90/75 with Intimidate), Togekiss (85/95) and Mega Mawile (50/125). Out of all of them, I'd wager to say that Togekiss is the most viable. Granbull sucks, while Mega Mawile does hit hard but its really slow.
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Togekiss being the most physically bulky fairy is rather disappointing (most physically bulky anything really), but we need to take what we can get. If only we had more manly fairymons. Togekiss, speaking of which, has received some of the greatest profits of the generation. It can now wall Haxorus, Salamence and Garchomp with little trouble. The only thing I can see that might discourage the use of Togekiss is the infamous Stealth Rock.

What Pokémon do you feel received the greatest boosts the generation?

~AoH
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Azumarrill has gotten a big boon with its fairy type and previously illegal move set. Though I question how good the belly drum set is.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Scolipede seems pretty bro with Speed Boost+Baton Pass, a fairy resistance, a boost to attack (base 100) and the Defog buff (stealth rock is now easier to remove). I played a lot of NU in late BW2 where Scolipede ended up, but I really do see it going up a lot with these buffs. After Blaziken (who is most likely going to remain in Ubers), I'd wager to say that Scolipede is the best baton passer in the game, even though baton pass teams in and of themselves are a very annoying strategy without something like it.

Togekiss is another one with the new typing. Pretty much any physical dragon is going to run Stone Edge to get past it, which makes a Steel type a very nice teammate.

Pride already touched on Azumarill.

While I think the worth of Mega Mawile is questionable, it's of no doubt that Mawile got a lot of buffs due to to the mega evolution (+40 to each defense, +20 atk and huge power, giving it an effective base attack stat of somewhere around 200 before EVs and Nature).
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Astra said:
Scolipede seems pretty bro with Speed Boost+Baton Pass, a fairy resistance, a boost to attack (base 100) and the Defog buff (stealth rock is now easier to remove). I played a lot of NU in late BW2 where Scolipede ended up, but I really do see it going up a lot with these buffs. After Blaziken (who is most likely going to remain in Ubers), I'd wager to say that Scolipede is the best baton passer in the game, even though baton pass teams in and of themselves are a very annoying strategy without something like it.

Togekiss is another one with the new typing. Pretty much any physical dragon is going to run Stone Edge to get past it, which makes a Steel type a very nice teammate.

Pride already touched on Azumarill.

While I think the worth of Mega Mawile is questionable, it's of no doubt that Mawile got a lot of buffs due to to the mega evolution (+40 to each defense, +20 atk and huge power, giving it an effective base attack stat of somewhere around 200 before EVs and Nature).
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Is there a list of other pokemon who got stat changes like scolipede?
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

I like all the buffers Gardevoir has received. Fairy-type neuters some of the things it used to be weak to (pursuit!!), and Trace is still one of the best abilities in the game. Coupled with the fact that Gardevoir has one of the best support movepools in the game. It is still pretty frail physically, though. I honestly think either Scolipede or Azumarill are going to turn out getting the biggest boosts this generation. They received some awesome power and some awesome tools to play with.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

If Gardy had better then 68/65 def, even in mega form I'd totally agree but it can't really take advantage of its 4x fighting resist and dragon immunity
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Can't help but agree here. Firstly, Mega Evolution removes Gardevoir's best trait, that is to say, ruins her design:p. Secondly, even in Mega form Gardevoir isn't exactly great and there are always the eternal problems of being unable to hold an item and taking up the spot of the team's Mega. Perhaps it's gotten a little better, but not much.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

If they put those 20 points from attack into her defense instead, then i think she'd be better (68/88/135 Defense is pretty solid). I still don't know if she'd be OU worthy though.

Speaking of mega evolutions, what are you guys finding useful beyond the obvious Lucario/Blaziken/Gengar megas?
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

I personally really like Mega Kangaskhan. Right now I'm using:

Kangaskhan
@Kangaskhanite
Scrappy/Parental Bond
252 Att/252 HP/4 Def
Fake Out
Earthquake
Outrage
Sucker Punch

Kind of a for-fun mega. But all of its attacks hit 1.5 times, so it's definately not weak.
With Scrappy as it's ability, normal Kangaskhan can force any Ghost into fliching before Mega evolving. Outrage may seem like a bad choice, but it's what I chose just for the raw power. However, Outrage can't hit Fairies and is a pain to use against Steel types. Earthquake is another powerful move that can hit what Outrage can't. Sucker Punch got chosen for a priority move that could be used whenever.
Probably not great for competitive play, but rather fun overall.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

@Astra: Mega Alakazam could prove to be good... It's an offensive monster and has access to Trace, and it's also faster than Mega Gengar, meaning that it can check it easily while also Tracing Shadow Tag, meaning that whatever the opponent throws in will be trapped. Mega Mawile and Medicham could get some use due to their great ability, and Mega Aggron is the most powerful physical tank of its tier (although there's once more the problem of which Mega to select for the team).
Also, don't get me wrong, but I don't think Mega Blaziken is really necessary. Sure, it hits slightly harder than its LO edition without recoil, and its Defenses and Speed are higher. However, Speed Boost makes the Speed increase of the Mega forme useless in many occasions, the Mega's defenses are still non-existent for the Uber tier level and holding Mega Stone means it can't use Focus Sash, which is probably the best item for a Baton Pass Blaziken.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Even so, don't tell me that Mega Blaziken's defenses are in any way good. Yes, they are better than Blaziken's, but they are still very low.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Astra said:
Speaking of mega evolutions, what are you guys finding useful beyond the obvious Lucario/Blaziken/Gengar megas?
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The mega evolution that intrigues me the most is Absol, because it has a bunch of unusual things going for it:

1) One of the most powerful priority attacks in the game which synergises well with Magic Bounce.

2) Me First combined with excellent Speed, offenses, and an ability that discourages indirect moves.

3) Nearly unresisted coverage between Dark STAB and Play Rough, and a ton of oddball special attacks.

4) Baton Pass + Swords Dance/Calm Mind

Seems like an unreliable mon due to its frailty, but then... who knows?
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

PMJ said:
Both parents can pass moves down as of gen 6, so there are no more illegal egg combinations.
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wat

Read as: Spikes + Sleep Powder + Leaf Storm Roserade
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

ChillBill said:
However, Speed Boost makes the Speed increase of the Mega forme useless in many occasions,
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The increase to 100 speed is a big thing. Now you won't be outsped by Scarf Rotom-W at +1, Scarf Latios at +2 (which is huge), and you can get the jump on plenty of Pokemon you would otherwise have to Protect on to get the first Speed Boost. It's probably the best thing about Mega Blaziken, along with the boosted defenses to take priority and increased Attack to drop Life Orb and its recoil.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Hmm... If you put it that way... Note, however, that Blaziken can't easily OHKO Lati@s, while it can still easily be OHKO'ed by them, even with its increased defenses. Rotom is easier to kill, but it can also easily OHKO with Hydro Pump. So OK, I can accept that bonus Speed is a thing, but I still believe the defenses are pathetic. Perhaps for priority moves... Don't get me wrong, Blaziken is my favorite Pokemon and I like it competitively as well, but I don't think its Mega Forme is that big.
 
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