RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Perhaps I was a bit hasty. Steel is indeed common. Poison, however, isn't and it will remain so.
Perhaps I was a bit hasty. Steel is indeed common. Poison, however, isn't and it will remain so.
OU: Strategy The X and Y Metagame Discussion Thread
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RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Fairies did nerf Dark types a bit, but I think the type chart also buffed Dark types, as they're now one of two types (Dark and Normal) that resist Ghost.
Fairies did nerf Dark types a bit, but I think the type chart also buffed Dark types, as they're now one of two types (Dark and Normal) that resist Ghost.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Well maybe people might consider Poison Jab or Sludge Bomb as a filler on their Pokemon now. Even though poison is still going to struggle, some may be able to take advantage of it. Roserade comes to mind for me. Roserade also got a small, yet notable boost in physical defense. Let's also not forget Gengar, who is definitely going to be getting higher usage with both the mega and some use in its other STAB. Oh, and it can learn Dazzling Gleam which, although is not considerably strong, could possibly be a cover move for the all-out offensive set concerning the mega.
Well maybe people might consider Poison Jab or Sludge Bomb as a filler on their Pokemon now. Even though poison is still going to struggle, some may be able to take advantage of it. Roserade comes to mind for me. Roserade also got a small, yet notable boost in physical defense. Let's also not forget Gengar, who is definitely going to be getting higher usage with both the mega and some use in its other STAB. Oh, and it can learn Dazzling Gleam which, although is not considerably strong, could possibly be a cover move for the all-out offensive set concerning the mega.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
This is true. In DPP there was only 3 Steel-types in the tier, one of which was good (Registeel), one of which (Aggron) was used more for its power than its defense, and one of which (Steelix) was lol.
Even in BW we did get some good Steel-types (Empoleon, Bronzong, Cobalion), but it was only because OU had power-crept so much that their defenses had become subpar. All the "good" Steel-types remained in OU, and highly-placed in usage at that. (Forretress, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Jirachi, Scizor).
I am rather happy for the Steel nerf now that I think about it, since the lower tiers will get a chance to use the Steel pokemon that have eluded them for so long, and it also buffed Dark and Normal which have now been the greatest defensive typings with weaknesses to moves like U-turn and Close Combat and just a lack of overall resistances.
Pride said:
This is true. In DPP there was only 3 Steel-types in the tier, one of which was good (Registeel), one of which (Aggron) was used more for its power than its defense, and one of which (Steelix) was lol.
Even in BW we did get some good Steel-types (Empoleon, Bronzong, Cobalion), but it was only because OU had power-crept so much that their defenses had become subpar. All the "good" Steel-types remained in OU, and highly-placed in usage at that. (Forretress, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Jirachi, Scizor).
I am rather happy for the Steel nerf now that I think about it, since the lower tiers will get a chance to use the Steel pokemon that have eluded them for so long, and it also buffed Dark and Normal which have now been the greatest defensive typings with weaknesses to moves like U-turn and Close Combat and just a lack of overall resistances.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I'm guessing that Heatran's 4x resistance to fairy is going to make it a big player in OU, so I'm definitely sure it's staying. Jirachi has always been good, but two more weaknesses and the megas may lower its ranking. Skarmory and Forretress may stay up high, and Ferrothorn will stay probably as well. Scizor has its own mega, so it'll probably stay in the top 5 of the tier again. Metagross will finally get off the edge of OU and gain some usage, so I doubt any of the OU steel Pokemon will get down to UU this gen :/. Aegislash is a new threat for sure, but it can be toyed with.
I'm guessing that Heatran's 4x resistance to fairy is going to make it a big player in OU, so I'm definitely sure it's staying. Jirachi has always been good, but two more weaknesses and the megas may lower its ranking. Skarmory and Forretress may stay up high, and Ferrothorn will stay probably as well. Scizor has its own mega, so it'll probably stay in the top 5 of the tier again. Metagross will finally get off the edge of OU and gain some usage, so I doubt any of the OU steel Pokemon will get down to UU this gen :/. Aegislash is a new threat for sure, but it can be toyed with.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I think metagross will actually stay about where it is in usage, if not drop. Sure, STAB Bulet Pnuch is more useful offensively due to the Fairy type hype, but it's still slow and gains the same weaknesses as Jirachi. Now it can be revenge KOed by Pursuit, OHKOed bu most Shadow Ball users, and can be dealt with by fast a Foul Play.
I think metagross will actually stay about where it is in usage, if not drop. Sure, STAB Bulet Pnuch is more useful offensively due to the Fairy type hype, but it's still slow and gains the same weaknesses as Jirachi. Now it can be revenge KOed by Pursuit, OHKOed bu most Shadow Ball users, and can be dealt with by fast a Foul Play.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Doublade evolves into Aegislash...
Doublade evolves into Aegislash...
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Actually, I believe he's referring to the new mechanics for Outrage and it's non-dragon clones. If it is blocked, disaled, hits an immunity, etc, it doesn't simply let you switch moves as normal like in gen 5. In gen 6 Confusion is triggered as if Outrage (or Petal Dance, etc.) ended, even if it was simply blocked.
Actually, I believe he's referring to the new mechanics for Outrage and it's non-dragon clones. If it is blocked, disaled, hits an immunity, etc, it doesn't simply let you switch moves as normal like in gen 5. In gen 6 Confusion is triggered as if Outrage (or Petal Dance, etc.) ended, even if it was simply blocked.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I was referring to both, actually. What iSharingan and Pride said are reasons good enough to forget Outrage for good.
I was referring to both, actually. What iSharingan and Pride said are reasons good enough to forget Outrage for good.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
From Smogon's facebook page because they phrase it pretty well:
Discuss.
~AoH
From Smogon's facebook page because they phrase it pretty well:
Code:
As I'm sure you know, each generation has had their own way to transfer Pokémon from the previous games - Poké Tranfer from DPP/HGSS to Black and White, for example. This generation, we were given Pokemon Bank - a downloadable application for the Nintendo 3DS from the Nintendo eShop. Without going into too much detail, Pokémon not obtainable in X/Y are currently unobtainable until near the end of 2013.
Since we cannot obtain any older Pokémon to check for changes, we cannot tier them. Therefore, until the end of December (and however long it takes to research the Pokémon!) our tiers will look very different - our first couple versions of the metagame will only include Pokémon obtainable in Pokémon X and Pokémon Y.
What are your thoughts on this?~AoH
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
It's a longer list than what it seems, thanks to Friend Safari.
List of unobtainable Pokemon.
It's a longer list than what it seems, thanks to Friend Safari.
List of unobtainable Pokemon.
Code:
Raticate
Persian
Weezing
Mew
Meganium
Typhlosion
Feraligatr
Unown
Stantler
Raikou
Entei
Suicune
Lugia
Ho-oh
Celebi
Sceptile
Swampert
Claydol
Milotic
Castform
Regirock
Regice
Registeel
Latias
Latios
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Jirachi
Deoxys
Torterra
Infernape
Empoleon
Kricketune
Cherrim
Lopunny
Mismagius
Purugly
Lumineon
Porygon-Z
Uxie
Mesprit
Azelf
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Cresselia
Heatran
Manaphy
Phione
Regigigas
Darkrai
Shaymin
Arceus
Victini
Serperior
Emboar
Samurott
Whimsicott
Darmanitan
Cofagrigus
Jellicent
Eelektross
Beeheeyem
Bouffalant
Cobalion
Terrakion
Virizion
Tornadus
Thundurus
Landorus
Reshiram
Zekrom
Kyurem
Keldeo
Meloetta
GenesectRE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
A metagame without Terrakion, Keldeo and nerfed rain...
Sign me up!
Oh, and no Heatran, which is kinda disappointing.
A metagame without Terrakion, Keldeo and nerfed rain...
Sign me up!
Oh, and no Heatran, which is kinda disappointing.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I have a question about this. I assumed that this was confirmed somewhere, though I didn't know where. However I fought a guy at league the other night who was using a Garchomp. When I protected myself, it did not become confused. And it didn't heal itself with a berry, as I had poisoned it before.
I was assuming I just remembered wrong and didn't think much of it. However, I just fought an old man in the Battle Chateu who used a Nidoking. It used Thrash to KO my Talonflame. I put in my Heracross and used Protect, thinking it would then confuse itself. Well... It didn't. Thrash just stopped and it then used EQ.
Am I just misunderstanding the nerf? Or does Thrash not work the way Outrage does?
iSharingan said:
I have a question about this. I assumed that this was confirmed somewhere, though I didn't know where. However I fought a guy at league the other night who was using a Garchomp. When I protected myself, it did not become confused. And it didn't heal itself with a berry, as I had poisoned it before.
I was assuming I just remembered wrong and didn't think much of it. However, I just fought an old man in the Battle Chateu who used a Nidoking. It used Thrash to KO my Talonflame. I put in my Heracross and used Protect, thinking it would then confuse itself. Well... It didn't. Thrash just stopped and it then used EQ.
Am I just misunderstanding the nerf? Or does Thrash not work the way Outrage does?
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I was assuming all blocking of Outrage triggered confusion. I had not seen protect block it, personally, but I do know Disabling it or switching in a fairy causes early confusion.
I was assuming all blocking of Outrage triggered confusion. I had not seen protect block it, personally, but I do know Disabling it or switching in a fairy causes early confusion.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Same here... Still, Outrage isn't gonna show itself now thanks to fairies.
So, no real Ubers meta for the time being, not with more than half of it being unobtainable. It will be fun to see a meta w/o the 580-600 BST legendaries, but let's not forget that a large part will remain intact, including the weather inducers, and there are some new toys (namely swords) to play as well. Still, it's interesting.
Same here... Still, Outrage isn't gonna show itself now thanks to fairies.
So, no real Ubers meta for the time being, not with more than half of it being unobtainable. It will be fun to see a meta w/o the 580-600 BST legendaries, but let's not forget that a large part will remain intact, including the weather inducers, and there are some new toys (namely swords) to play as well. Still, it's interesting.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Welp... I dont think this is 100% true either. I wanted to test this, so I selected Kangaskhan's Outrage against a Togekiss. Outrage stopped due to immunity, and Kangaskhan was not confused afterwards.
If it wasnt for the things I'm reading online about this, I'd think that Outrage was functioning the same way it did before.
iSharingan said:
Welp... I dont think this is 100% true either. I wanted to test this, so I selected Kangaskhan's Outrage against a Togekiss. Outrage stopped due to immunity, and Kangaskhan was not confused afterwards.
If it wasnt for the things I'm reading online about this, I'd think that Outrage was functioning the same way it did before.