Finished Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (OVER)

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RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

sillykyle said:
How dumb are you guys...? There's a scum-aligned tracker as well... -_-

Do you want me to quote the at least three times that that has already been stated in the thread? I should know, I was the first to mention it. -.- to you to.

Anyway:

PMJ is town tracker and isn't dead yet. Good for us.

5 town dead in what? A day and 2 nights. Bad for us.

PMJ, sadly in this game, Town only seems to outnumber scum by 3:1 due to their being 3-4 on TWO teams of scum as wells as Indies.

I've looked through this thread and am slowly falling under PMJ's spell. He seems natural and calm about things... But, well... That doesn't always end well (see another werewolf game thats happening right now.).

So, while he does seem town, PMJ knows how to create an illusion. But, I suppose that isn't very incriminating.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

Even after PMJ explaining why he supposedly is "confirmed" town tracker, I don't get it. Could you explain it to me like a little baby and bold the crucial part? I just don't see how you are a confirmed town tracker. I'm probably missing something though.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

I don't see why lynch Lemmonade because Glace was killed after all Glace was Doctor which is a target that scum can't ignore. He is still scummy IMO though. I believe PMJ is town even though maf tracker could be on the game while town wouldn't but he is acting as a town.

Camoclone is out and he wasn't replaced while he was off?
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

It was about a week camoclone was gone. It is up to the host if they replace the person temporarily or not. Considering that it was one game day, it isn't a huge loss.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

Even after PMJ explaining why he supposedly is "confirmed" town tracker, I don't get it. Could you explain it to me like a little baby and bold the crucial part? I just don't see how you are a confirmed town tracker. I'm probably missing something though.

Really, the only way to confirm me as town tracker is to 1) kill me or 2) kill the mafia tracker (if there is one).

However, I am saying that it is very very very unlikely that I am mafia tracker. Think about it logically.

There is only one copy of most of the roles in the game. To make a claim and claim one of the roles there is only one copy of is a very dangerous thing because if the real role counterclaims you, then you're both in trouble. This is why vanilla townie is such a popular claim; it's a hard claim to disprove. If you don't have a night action, then you can coast on that claim until you die.

Normally, townies don't have anything to fear by claiming. Scum, however, have every reason to lie about their role (as I said a while ago, no one will claim scum without a jester (whose win condition is to be lynched) in the game.

When you make a fakeclaim (that is, claiming a role that isn't yours), you run the risk of being counterclaimed - that is, the real role also claiming the role you just did.

If there's only one copy of the role, it's obvious that one of you is lying. So now the question becomes, what do we do about it?

Since I've been talking about it all game, we'll use tracker as an example.

The reason I feel confirmed town is because of risk vs. reward. Is the risk of making a fakeclaim worth the reward of deceiving the town? After all, if I'm mafia tracker, and the town believes I'm town tracker, then I'm basically guaranteed to win it for my side as long as no one suspects I'm mafia.

What is the risk associated with claiming town tracker?

This depends on my alignment. If I am scum, the risk is huge. Why? Because I am obviously not the town tracker. I would not know if there is a town tracker in the game. If I claim town tracker and the real town tracker comes forward, we are both going to die.

Why? Think of it like this. Let's say that PMJ and WPM are both in a game. I am mafia tracker, but I roll dice and claim town tracker. WPM, the real town tracker, knows that I'm lying. He immediately counterclaims me, claiming that he is the real town tracker, says I must be mafia tracker, and votes for me. Since I don't want to be lynched, I vote for him as well. We spend the day making accusations back and forth. At the end of the day it looks like WPM is going to be lynched. I'm home free! ...or am I?

Far from it. In reality, I am screwed no matter what happens. If the town believes WPM and I get lynched, I will flip mafia tracker and that's the end of that. WPM is now confirmed as town and will likely be the target of any protection roles as the town's sole clear power role. Even if the town believes me and WPM gets lynched, he will flips town tracker. Since it is obvious that I am now lying about my role, I must be mafia tracker and am guaranteed to be lynched the following day. At worst I will be lynched today; at best I will be lynched tomorrow. It's lose-lose no matter what I do.

Why is this important? Numbers. The scum's win condition revolves around preserving their numbers. Let's say that the above scenario plays out; I get lynched and WPM gets nightkilled. Both town and scum are down a player. No big deal, right? Wrong. Not only does it set the scum team back a day every time they lose a member, but even if they take a townie down with them every time one of them dies, they will never win. Imagine a game of 20 players and four are scum. If you kill a townie along with a scum you will still have 12 townies left and no scum.

Scum cannot afford to lose players at will, even if a townie dies as a direct result of their actions. As I just illustrated, there is no risk here if you are town because with soooo many more of you than scum, it's actually beneficial for the town to lose a player if it means they will lose a scum too.

That's why I consider myself confirmed town. If I were scum, all someone has to do is say "I claim town tracker" and I'm boned. (You lynch the counterclaim first in case it is a scum trying to fakeclaim; it doesn't matter if it's really town claiming a legit role because after the town player flips town, the scum will be lynched tomorrow.)

No one has counterclaimed me. Town won't do it because they will end up dead. Scum definitely won't do it, for the same reason.

I hope this makes everything clear.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

As I have stated before, I'm not very good at this game. That being said, I'm not going to be able to create a very good defense for myself that I am town. And because I don't want town to lynch another town, I'm willing to screenshot-reveal if you guys want me to (admittedly it makes me NK target but I'm going to die anyway).
If anyone's going to believe me I'm the lone Lover.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

Blui said:
RaichuGirl said:
Only on night kill?

...Also, we've lost both our doctors =.=

Wait what? You make it sound as though you wanted another kill (that or I'm too tired/overthinking things).

Wait what? I just thought it was strange that we went from three kills to one, how in any way does my post make it sound like I wanted another kill?

You've been acting really differently this game to every other werewolf game I've seen you play. It's strange...
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

PMJ said:
Even after PMJ explaining why he supposedly is "confirmed" town tracker, I don't get it. Could you explain it to me like a little baby and bold the crucial part? I just don't see how you are a confirmed town tracker. I'm probably missing something though.

Really, the only way to confirm me as town tracker is to 1) kill me or 2) kill the mafia tracker (if there is one).

However, I am saying that it is very very very unlikely that I am mafia tracker. Think about it logically.

There is only one copy of most of the roles in the game. To make a claim and claim one of the roles there is only one copy of is a very dangerous thing because if the real role counterclaims you, then you're both in trouble. This is why vanilla townie is such a popular claim; it's a hard claim to disprove. If you don't have a night action, then you can coast on that claim until you die.

Normally, townies don't have anything to fear by claiming. Scum, however, have every reason to lie about their role (as I said a while ago, no one will claim scum without a jester (whose win condition is to be lynched) in the game.

When you make a fakeclaim (that is, claiming a role that isn't yours), you run the risk of being counterclaimed - that is, the real role also claiming the role you just did.

If there's only one copy of the role, it's obvious that one of you is lying. So now the question becomes, what do we do about it?

Since I've been talking about it all game, we'll use tracker as an example.

The reason I feel confirmed town is because of risk vs. reward. Is the risk of making a fakeclaim worth the reward of deceiving the town? After all, if I'm mafia tracker, and the town believes I'm town tracker, then I'm basically guaranteed to win it for my side as long as no one suspects I'm mafia.

What is the risk associated with claiming town tracker?

This depends on my alignment. If I am scum, the risk is huge. Why? Because I am obviously not the town tracker. I would not know if there is a town tracker in the game. If I claim town tracker and the real town tracker comes forward, we are both going to die.

Why? Think of it like this. Let's say that PMJ and WPM are both in a game. I am mafia tracker, but I roll dice and claim town tracker. WPM, the real town tracker, knows that I'm lying. He immediately counterclaims me, claiming that he is the real town tracker, says I must be mafia tracker, and votes for me. Since I don't want to be lynched, I vote for him as well. We spend the day making accusations back and forth. At the end of the day it looks like WPM is going to be lynched. I'm home free! ...or am I?

Far from it. In reality, I am screwed no matter what happens. If the town believes WPM and I get lynched, I will flip mafia tracker and that's the end of that. WPM is now confirmed as town and will likely be the target of any protection roles as the town's sole clear power role. Even if the town believes me and WPM gets lynched, he will flips town tracker. Since it is obvious that I am now lying about my role, I must be mafia tracker and am guaranteed to be lynched the following day. At worst I will be lynched today; at best I will be lynched tomorrow. It's lose-lose no matter what I do.

Why is this important? Numbers. The scum's win condition revolves around preserving their numbers. Let's say that the above scenario plays out; I get lynched and WPM gets nightkilled. Both town and scum are down a player. No big deal, right? Wrong. Not only does it set the scum team back a day every time they lose a member, but even if they take a townie down with them every time one of them dies, they will never win. Imagine a game of 20 players and four are scum. If you kill a townie along with a scum you will still have 12 townies left and no scum.

Scum cannot afford to lose players at will, even if a townie dies as a direct result of their actions. As I just illustrated, there is no risk here if you are town because with soooo many more of you than scum, it's actually beneficial for the town to lose a player if it means they will lose a scum too.

That's why I consider myself confirmed town. If I were scum, all someone has to do is say "I claim town tracker" and I'm boned. (You lynch the counterclaim first in case it is a scum trying to fakeclaim; it doesn't matter if it's really town claiming a legit role because after the town player flips town, the scum will be lynched tomorrow.)

No one has counterclaimed me. Town won't do it because they will end up dead. Scum definitely won't do it, for the same reason.

I hope this makes everything clear.

Well, I guess you're right. The chances of you being scum are low, but it's still possible. Anyway, *right now* I do believe that you are town after this huge explanation. The problem is, we haven't got any more leads.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

PMJ, there are two teams of scum this time... Scum can actually afford to lose a few since, there are 6-8 of them and however many indies...
Although, that still doesn't mean that they can do a 1:1 deal...

And I know I can't talk after how many people I randomly voted Day 1... But why are so many people pointing the fingers...

Raichu, points the finger.
Haunted, points the finger.
Machamp points the finger.

Since they all pointed at different people, it isn't very incriminating... Wait... Did I just point the finger as well? :/
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

It is against the spirit of the game to reveal your role in a way like screenshot. You may, however, quote the role because they are in the OP.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

RaichuGirl said:
Blui said:
Wait what? You make it sound as though you wanted another kill (that or I'm too tired/overthinking things).

Wait what? I just thought it was strange that we went from three kills to one, how in any way does my post make it sound like I wanted another kill?

You've been acting really differently this game to every other werewolf game I've seen you play. It's strange...

Well there can be 2 kills a night, the wolf kill and the mafia kill. The vigilante (Astra) was killed N1.

Well I wasn't really into the other games. You're playing differently as well.


Oh yeah camo could be the alpha for 1 of the scum groups. That or they did just both target Glace.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

Blui said:
RaichuGirl said:
Wait what? I just thought it was strange that we went from three kills to one, how in any way does my post make it sound like I wanted another kill?

You've been acting really differently this game to every other werewolf game I've seen you play. It's strange...

Well there can be 2 kills a night, the wolf kill and the mafia kill. The vigilante (Astra) was killed N1.

Well I wasn't really into the other games. You're playing differently as well.

You still didn't explain why you thought my post made it seem like I wanted another kill. I don't see it, and I don't see how you saw it.

You weren't into the other games when you had awesome roles such as semi-seer/priest? Really? Also, bar day 1 before the reset, how am I playing any differently from previous games?
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

SheNinja said:
It is against the spirit of the game to reveal your role in a way like screenshot. You may, however, quote the role because they are in the OP.
Thanks, point taken.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

RaichuGirl said:
Blui said:
Well there can be 2 kills a night, the wolf kill and the mafia kill. The vigilante (Astra) was killed N1.

Well I wasn't really into the other games. You're playing differently as well.

You still didn't explain why you thought my post made it seem like I wanted another kill. I don't see it, and I don't see how you saw it.

You weren't into the other games when you had awesome roles such as semi-seer/priest? Really? Also, bar day 1 before the reset, how am I playing any differently from previous games?

That priest was a limited one and you killed me like N2 when I was town-only-seer. I dunno, I just feel like you aren't really being as calm as you normally are.

(oh and on the why I thought you wanted another kill was how I interoperate the word only, I don't doubt you now).
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

The factional kill is just that; a factional kill. Anybody on the team can send it in.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

Lemonnade said:
As I have stated before, I'm not very good at this game. That being said, I'm not going to be able to create a very good defense for myself that I am town. And because I don't want town to lynch another town, I'm willing to screenshot-reveal if you guys want me to (admittedly it makes me NK target but I'm going to die anyway).
If anyone's going to believe me I'm the lone Lover.

There's a Mafia Lover, so it's still fairly likely you're scum. Right now, I'm thinking of voting for you, because even if you're town, we don't lose anything useful if you're lynched.

James86134 said:
PMJ, there are two teams of scum this time... Scum can actually afford to lose a few since, there are 6-8 of them and however many indies...
Although, that still doesn't mean that they can do a 1:1 deal...

And I know I can't talk after how many people I randomly voted Day 1... But why are so many people pointing the fingers...

Raichu, points the finger.
Haunted, points the finger.
Machamp points the finger.

Since they all pointed at different people, it isn't very incriminating... Wait... Did I just point the finger as well? :/

The reason we're pointing fingers is because there are no leads, and looking for scum tells (aka pointing fingers) is the only way we can find scum this early in the game.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

Pointing fingers usually gets stuff done when it comes down to the wire. And I suggest we start formulating a plot, otherwise we'll be sitting ducks soon. There isn't much we can do now. Anyone who shows there strength as a scumhunter is destined to be targeted by one of the NKs, what with our Doctor gone.
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

Quick, let's all go to random.org and vote for whoever's first in the randomized player list! I'll go first:

VOTE: Haunted Water (sauce)

\o/ CLEARLY THIS WILL GET US PLACES \o/
 
RE: Werewolf XVII II: The Greatest Idea (Day 3) (D/L 7/8)

You got any better ideas than actually thinking of things that may be useful to the town, my dear boy? Because again, pointing fingers is usually a pisspoor plan.
 
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