Finished Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves

[Haunted Water]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Nobody voting me has said a thing since my last post. Care to speak up guys?

I have been dwelling on my vote choice the entire day, and I don't see you as scum.
##Unvote: alex
I'm actually having difficulty finding scum, mostly because twist isn't that scummy to me (could be wrong, I haven't been paying much attention lately).

 

[Eron]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

WW would you mind in making a vote count as of now please?

 

[sillykyle]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Just watch the dang scene and you'll understand.

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Because as a town we need to vote together, and I sure am not going to vote for whoever you think we should lynch. And a lot of other people won't either. And it's the same with me.

Or we can think and discuss things and come to a conclusion together. Being able to reason out a good vote candidate with the options of all the players (the majority of which are inno, even if you don't know which of them specifically are) is the only real reliable way we have to find scum in this game. I hate to repeat myself, but you didn't seem to listen to me the first time.

[W]hy do you have to be led at all? Why can't you and everyone else think and discuss and reason rather than simply sheeping along with someone else's vote solely based on the fact that the voter is innocent? Any move that advocates following another player rather than encouraging people to think for themselves is a bad move in my eyes. And all your vote is saying is "I don't want to think so I'll let Celever think for me."

---

One thing the whole town can agree with is voting whoever Celever wants lynched.

And, no, I will never agree to sheep along with someone solely based on the fact that I know they're innocent. Especially since Celever's only real point against TT was that he was bandwagoning, which applies just as badly (if not worse) to you and SF (who, oddly enough, hasn't been around in this thread since he was under scrutiny for just that same thing).

Look, I get to repeat myself again.

Just because a player is a confirmed innocent does not mean their ideas and hunches are automatically correct.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Just watch the dang scene and you'll understand.

It's still a little bit unclear after that scene without some explanation, though:

Basically, someone creates 2 or more options with his post, knowing that whatever the outcome, he will end up on top, because only he knows the answer. WIFOM has come to mean looser terms now, like if you say "I think mafia would do X" it is WIFOM also, because you are trying to get into the head of your competitor and try to figure out what he would do.

So there are essentially 2 meanings if WIFOM. One is the hero ninja guy (I only watched the film a few months ago and already have forgotten the names of the characters) and the other is the villain, from the scene.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Because as a town we need to vote together, and I sure am not going to vote for whoever you think we should lynch. And a lot of other people won't either. And it's the same with me.

Or we can think and discuss things and come to a conclusion together. Being able to reason out a good vote candidate with the options of all the players (the majority of which are inno, even if you don't know which of them specifically are) is the only real reliable way we have to find scum in this game. I hate to repeat myself, but you didn't seem to listen to me the first time.

[W]hy do you have to be led at all? Why can't you and everyone else think and discuss and reason rather than simply sheeping along with someone else's vote solely based on the fact that the voter is innocent? Any move that advocates following another player rather than encouraging people to think for themselves is a bad move in my eyes. And all your vote is saying is "I don't want to think so I'll let Celever think for me."

---

One thing the whole town can agree with is voting whoever Celever wants lynched.

And, no, I will never agree to sheep along with someone solely based on the fact that I know they're innocent. Especially since Celever's only real point against TT was that he was bandwagoning, which applies just as badly (if not worse) to you and SF (who, oddly enough, hasn't been around in this thread since he was under scrutiny for just that same thing).

Look, I get to repeat myself again.

Just because a player is a confirmed innocent does not mean their ideas and hunches are automatically correct.

I actually whole-heartedly agree to this post (well, most of it). I don't like the simple sheeping that akex is doing to me. I made a post about it earlier on iirc.

And you're right about SF. I was going to give him until a bit later to vote, but I guess he shoukd start talking now.

I've got to go soon and/or am too lazy to do this rn, but I will further analyze TT's posts when I get back. I will then probably leave the thread for several hours because I GOT XENOBLADE CHRONICLES YESTERDAY AND AM HYPE!!! TT's only real argument being his useless bandwagoning and sheeping isn't the only thing, though, but I guess that I'll have to touch on that later on, when I return from school!

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

I do recall that Teal had something separate on TT aside from your initial post, but I don't recall what it was and couldn't find it quick and I'd already spent enough time making that post, so I didn't bother to look harder to reference it in my previous post. It had taken me enough time to make as it is.

 

[GM DracLord]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

So you guys know, the reason i aint voting anyone yet is becuase i was voteblocked by someone on N0.

 

[Teal]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

After alex explaining why his switched playstyles I feel pretty stupid. I only asked that for provocation but still. That was the only reason I switched so:
##UNVOTE: alex
##VOTE: TwistedTurtwig

I see how that could affect your aggressiveness (after all, the same thing is happening to me), but I don't get that vibe from your posts. You're still pretty active in this game, but still you seem much more passive than you usually are, and I remember from the past that you play much more passively when you're a wolf.

To my knowledge I'm playing like "always", but how I play depends on many things. In one or two games on PB where I was town I hardly ever posted (sorry).

Nothing new here. People suspect me of being scum all the time, whether I'm scum or not.

Why do you think that is?

I'm starting to suspect alex a little less. There seems to be very little resistance with alex's lynch, except by the confirmed town. If alex was scum, and the other scum didn't want alex to be lynched, wouldn't agreeing with Celever be the perfect opportunity to avoid lynching him? This could be WIFOM, but I doubt it at this point.

Assuming this was true, wolves WIFOM with this kind of thing should be rare, the only reason why they wouldn't do so is because they can't naturally defend him. Besides this town seems to pay no attention to that ever so there is no reason for the wolves to WIFOM that. >___> (How many times have I told you guys this and you never, ever listened.)

Anyway only six people have voted for alex, with a max of five votes (of 21) there at a time, so you can't really say that there is no resistance. No resisctance votes last game rolled much smoother afaicr. Not saying alex is scum, but that's noteworthy.

I'm also having second thoughts about TT, but I would be fine with his lynch, I guess.

Why + why?

If I had to lynch one person today, it'd probably be Teal, honestly. I'm not overly suspicious of anyone else right now.

So you would rather lynch one of the better players? With no case? That's extremely scummy. Definitely something to remember here. Could it be that you are wolf partners and that's why you have "second thoughts" about lynching TT?

KoN, just because alex has been following Celever doesn't clear him.
I once played a game where I was scum using the same tactic (following a confo). I slipped by every day. I ended up being the sole winner of that game.

It doesn't mean anything. Actually if TT is scum it means that alex is town, if anything.

Nobody voting me has said a thing since my last post. Care to speak up guys?

I have been dwelling on my vote choice the entire day, and I don't see you as scum.
##Unvote: alex
I'm actually having difficulty finding scum, mostly because twist isn't that scummy to me (could be wrong, I haven't been paying much attention lately).

Didn't you just argue that alex could very well be a wolf, but now you unvote him?

See, the thing is... I know Celever is inno, but I also know that I'm inno. You and everyone else might not know that I'm inno, but at this point it doesn't really matter, because the same can be said for every other player aside from Camo, and I'm not speaking for anyone else anyway, I'm speaking for myself. Sure, I can trust Celever, but I can also trust myself, and seeing the leaps Celever was making earlier, well, I'm a lot more likely to trust my own judgment and leads than I am someone elses, even if I know I can trust that player's affiliation, I still trust my own thinking skills more.

So much this. However, I agree with voting for TT atm, not because Celever did so, but you may say that Celever doing so is a sign that "we aren't being led by a wolf". I don't really even agree with that statement, Celever could be voting for a townie and the wolves could just jump on the "wagon", so it's not like TT is a better option because Celever is voting for him. Still, I see him and MtC as the scummiest atm so I will keep my vote for now.

So you guys know, the reason i aint voting anyone yet is becuase i was voteblocked by someone on N0.

If that's the only reason, then who would you vote if you could?
GM seems like a really weird choice for voteblocking... when I try to think about it, the WIFOM (town/wolf vote blocker) just intensifies so it's better I don't say anything.

Anyway, there are too many (semi-)inactives:
Bisharp37, prafferty98, rev3rsor, Shampoo Thief, Reinforce, Cinesra, TheGuy.
Step it up. Even I'm posting pretty much although I have only been here like 1-2 hours a day.
Even if your thoughts seem worthless. Post them. Just post.

 

[rev3rsor]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

I don't have anything to say at this point, really. From experience camo is normally like this, and I'm undecided on Eron.
I get this feeling alex is trying to help, but I'm not sure whether he's legit or just trying to gain trust. The no-lynch seems a bit scummy though, but not enough for me to actually feel like he's scum.
TT seems a little desperate (well, "agitated" for want of a better word) to get attention off himself; I don't know if that's normal for him or not.
Anyway that's just my thoughts. No votes yet from me, until there's anything to lead me to a clearer conclusion.

 

[GM DracLord]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

So you guys know, the reason i aint voting anyone yet is becuase i was voteblocked by someone on N0.

If that's the only reason, then who would you vote if you could?
GM seems like a really weird choice for voteblocking... when I try to think about it, the WIFOM (town/wolf vote blocker) just intensifies so it's better I don't say anything.

At this point I don't suspect anyone largely yet.

I have a feeling the voteblocking would be the scum's role and maybe he/she is someone new and just pick me by random. Since I'm sure the more experience scum would not see me as a threat.

 

[Teal]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

If that's the only reason, then who would you vote if you could?
GM seems like a really weird choice for voteblocking... when I try to think about it, the WIFOM (town/wolf vote blocker) just intensifies so it's better I don't say anything.

At this point I don't suspect anyone largely yet.

I have a feeling the voteblocking would be the scum's role and maybe he/she is someone new and just pick me by random. Since I'm sure the more experience scum would not see me as a threat.

If it's a wolf role then even if a newb had the role, the other wolves could tell them who to block.

Wolves (or anyone really) wouldn't benefit from the block at this point in the game, so if anything it seems more like a mindgame.

It's true that the role seems more like a wolf role than a town role (town can't really benefit from that in most situations while lategame it's a doublevote-ish thing for wolves). However I could fex. see the wolves using it on a wolf at this point in the game to make that person appear town. On the other hand that might draw unnecessary attention on that person. Etc. It's extremely WIFOM as I said so analyzing this seems kinda useless I guess, it just makes my mind tangle up... what do you guys think?

Anyway, why didn't you tell us that at the start of the day but only now?

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

I don't have anything to say at this point, really. From experience camo is normally like this, and I'm undecided on Eron.
I get this feeling alex is trying to help, but I'm not sure whether he's legit or just trying to gain trust. The no-lynch seems a bit scummy though, but not enough for me to actually feel like he's scum.
TT seems a little desperate (well, "agitated" for want of a better word) to get attention off himself; I don't know if that's normal for him or not.
Anyway that's just my thoughts. No votes yet from me, until there's anything to lead me to a clearer conclusion.

This post is extremely "make no enemies" and I really don't like it. Not enough to lynch you, but the fact that you are making no enemies, yet agreeing with TT's lynch means that if he is scum I'm going to have to take a look at you.

 

[Reinforce]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

IMO the voteblock on GM Draclord shouldn't have that much impact at this point in the game. This early, a single vote given or not given isn't going to be a decider unless we have a close tally or tie between two or three players.

As for me, I can buy it as either a wolf or town role. A wolf role for the reasons Teal has already stated while as a town role, if a wolf is hit, it could lessen the group's opportunities to control the lynch or wagon... though it might not be much help when there are still a lot of them, but it's still something.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have much to go on investigating our vote blocker with only one "victim" so far. It's not a role that could be considered dangerous, so there's no urgency for us to find them as soon as possible... and we're still in Day 1 so... We don't have a sure way of telling if they are town or wolf either. We could still investigate in on the side, perhaps.

On the alex vs TT issue, I find both of them suspicious for different reasons, but nothing to confidently justify or convince me to vote any of them yet. alex is clinging to Celever like a koala which I agree is suspicious, but the tone of his posts doesn't sound panicky or scummy to me, so I'll just watch him for now. Point of note on TT is that I don't see that many (any?) people defending him, which, if he is a wolf, looks like he's being bussed way early in the game. Wolves wouldn't want to lose a member on Day 1 so easily like this, so in my mind, TT is tipping more on the town side than wolf. Though I know the possibility it could be a psychology tactic of the entire wolf team to make TT appear town also exists, it is a highly risky gamble. I don't think the wolves would risk it this early in the game... would they?

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

IMO the voteblock on GM Draclord shouldn't have that much impact at this point in the game. This early, a single vote given or not given isn't going to be a decider unless we have a close tally or tie between two or three players.

As for me, I can buy it as either a wolf or town role. A wolf role for the reasons Teal has already stated while as a town role, if a wolf is hit, it could lessen the group's opportunities to control the lynch or wagon... though it might not be much help when there are still a lot of them, but it's still something.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have much to go on investigating our vote blocker with only one "victim" so far. It's not a role that could be considered dangerous, so there's no urgency for us to find them as soon as possible... and we're still in Day 1 so... We don't have a sure way of telling if they are town or wolf either. We could still investigate in on the side, perhaps.

On the alex vs TT issue, I find both of them suspicious for different reasons, but nothing to confidently justify or convince me to vote any of them yet. alex is clinging to Celever like a koala which I agree is suspicious, but the tone of his posts doesn't sound panicky or scummy to me, so I'll just watch him for now. Point of note on TT is that I don't see that many (any?) people defending him, which, if he is a wolf, looks like he's being bussed way early in the game. Wolves wouldn't want to lose a member on Day 1 so easily like this, so in my mind, TT is tipping more on the town side than wolf. Though I know the possibility it could be a psychology tactic of the entire wolf team to make TT appear town also exists, it is a highly risky gamble. I don't think the wolves would risk it this early in the game... would they?

One of the things I said about alex which was not scummy was the little resistance there was to his lynch. However, I believe that alex is town, so I think that the wolves could have picked up on this and as such deigned to protect TT.

However, it has to be mentioned that Camoclone still refuses to vote for TT because he's not scummy in his opinion, and I could really see this as an attempt of scum to see who would follow him with the lynch and to see if it would be worth pushing for. He also began getting quieter and quieter as the lynch progressed, so as to not draw attention to himself, and eventually just feel silent. This is very strange behaviour, especially for Camoclone.

 

[Teal]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

^ Camoclone said he will be gone until next Sunday and he can only occasionally check up on his (glitchy/bad) iSomething.

 

[GM DracLord]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Anyway, why didn't you tell us that at the start of the day but only now?

During the early part. Camo said something similar. I think my situation wouldn't mind much. Later on. I though i informed you guys already so that's why i didn't say it. But after I go through the thread. I realize that i didn't mention it earlier.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Nothing new here. People suspect me of being scum all the time, whether I'm scum or not.

Why do you think that is?

I'm usually pretty passive and just kind of give my opinion on things. I usually make it pretty clear that I'm "unsure" with my suspicions and votes, which people find scummy a lot of the time, and a lot of little things I've noticed about my playstyle. The only times I was ever lynched was when I was a wolf, so I guess I'm doing something right as town.

I'm also having second thoughts about TT, but I would be fine with his lynch, I guess.

Why + why?

Just read back through his posts, and... I don't know, I can't decide (like literally, second guessing myself over and over again when making this post). At the current moment, I think he's more likely town. His posts suggest he's trying to give his honest thoughts, and isn't being easily swayed or lead by someone else, and they just don't seem all that scummy, honestly. It's hard to describe better than that, but I think you get what I mean.

If I had to lynch one person today, it'd probably be Teal, honestly. I'm not overly suspicious of anyone else right now.

So you would rather lynch one of the better players? With no case? That's extremely scummy. Definitely something to remember here. Could it be that you are wolf partners and that's why you have "second thoughts" about lynching TT?

If saying something scummy about your playing style isn't a "case", then what is exactly? I've already said that I think you're playing too passively compared to your regular playing style. I also don't like how you're commenting on "the reasons someone would voteblock GM" and other WIFOM strats, which I feel like is something you'd normally call a waste of time and a distraction. Again, I keep second guessing myself on you, but right now, I'm leaning a liiiiiiiittle more towards wolf, but not enough towards wolf to vote for you.

Yeah, I really don't know who to vote today. I'll stop trying to explain who I think is the best lynch until I actually know myself. X_X

I don't have anything to say at this point, really. From experience camo is normally like this, and I'm undecided on Eron.
I get this feeling alex is trying to help, but I'm not sure whether he's legit or just trying to gain trust. The no-lynch seems a bit scummy though, but not enough for me to actually feel like he's scum.
TT seems a little desperate (well, "agitated" for want of a better word) to get attention off himself; I don't know if that's normal for him or not.
Anyway that's just my thoughts. No votes yet from me, until there's anything to lead me to a clearer conclusion.

This post is extremely "make no enemies" and I really don't like it. Not enough to lynch you, but the fact that you are making no enemies, yet agreeing with TT's lynch means that if he is scum I'm going to have to take a look at you.

rev usually uses a "make no enemies" playstyle, whether he's town or not.

 

[Teal]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

I also don't like how you're commenting on "the reasons someone would voteblock GM" and other WIFOM strats, which I feel like is something you'd normally call a waste of time and a distraction.

You clearly don't know me if you think so. It has some discussion value because it's a little new info that can cause analyzes to analyze. If you got anything out of my post on the matter, it already shows that that's true! ;D And obviously it means you reacted to me again, too!

 

[TwistedTurtwig]

RE: Werewolf XXI-0 - Left4TheWolves - Day 1 ends 3rd July 9am AEST

Aaaand the votes keep piling up on me for little to no reason. I've still got my suspicions on alex, and it's not like I could afford to change my vote this late in the day either. It's pretty much going to be one of the two of us dead after today, and I won't let it be me.

The question is, do I role-reveal now or later? There's not too much time left before the day ends, but I'm sure that once I do, I can change your minds.