Finished Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Town Wins

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Also one more thing. No lynching is bad because quite simply it gives us one less chance to find scum.

And if you announce at the start of the day that you won't be lynching scum won't give you any leads at all. They will sit back and enjoy the no-lynch. At the end we will be left in worse shape than we were in before. We will have scum reads on town players.

We will always have scum reads on town players. Always. In a game of this size, we will until Day 7 or 8 probably.

Lynching a townie is worse because it essentially gives us two less chances to lynch scum.

We won't get any solid leads on anyone Day 1 90% of the time.

You failed to acknowledge the bolded part.

 

[Reinforce]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Reinforce they're watching Buddyfight obv

...That explains a lot.

LOL


My two cents on the No Lynch is that we aren't reducing the number of suspects at all. If we lynch (an inactive, most likely), there's a huge risk if they turn out town, sure, but looking for X number of wolves among 29 is a tiny bit easier than among 30 at least, is what I think.

Really, it all boils down to what will be decided on the last stages of Day 1 (it's either No Lynch or lynch an inactive). According to what I've seen and experienced in the past few WW games here, anyway.

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Or we can get someone to claim an unfriendly role and lynch them. Out of all of the games that I've played here that have finished, that's been the... only D1 outcome I've seen so far.

I don't agree with NLing as a rule, but I think constantly letting "to NL or not to NL" conversation dominate D1 is even more detrimental than a NL is since it's more about personal experience and philosophy than what someone's role is, so I haven't been participating in the "argument".

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I'm not going to quote that post for clutter because I can only find one question to actually reply to, that being "when is it ever OK to lynch?"

The answer: When we have a legitimate read or target. In other words, every day besides Day 1 almost every game. By that, I mean almost every game we have legitimate reads adter Day 1, lynch or not.

One thing I would like to point out is when you said "twisting my words won't get you any town credit". I complained about you doing that (without explicitly stating it...) in that post. If we lynch anyone today I hope it is you, just because you have made multiple contradictions, and because I bought Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney recently that means you're guilty! >:L

First of all I never twisted your words I responded to what you posted. Second of all you really should reply to my points if you care about a no-lynch. Third please point out my contradictions.

First of all you did and I pointed out where as I posted. Second of all I replied to all of your points; you didn't make enough of them. Third I pointed out the contradictions as I posted. Read back...

We will always have scum reads on town players. Always. In a game of this size, we will until Day 7 or 8 probably.

Lynching a townie is worse because it essentially gives us two less chances to lynch scum.

We won't get any solid leads on anyone Day 1 90% of the time.

You failed to acknowledge the bolded part.

... I did. You are cluttering this thread with half-assed claims which are quite simply untrue. Look at my first and third statements in that post...

Or we can get someone to claim an unfriendly role and lynch them. Out of all of the games that I've played here that have finished, that's been the... only D1 outcome I've seen so far.

I don't agree with NLing as a rule, but I think constantly letting "to NL or not to NL" conversation dominate D1 is even more detrimental than a NL is since it's more about personal experience and philosophy than what someone's role is, so I haven't been participating in the "argument".

Just pointing out that last game D1 finished not only in a no lynch, but with 5 almost-confirmed townies, including our seer and a mason pair. This just gave the scum so many options for great kills...

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

First of all I never twisted your words I responded to what you posted. Second of all you really should reply to my points if you care about a no-lynch. Third please point out my contradictions.

First of all you did and I pointed out where as I posted. Second of all I replied to all of your points; you didn't make enough of them. Third I pointed out the contradictions as I posted. Read back...

I didn't twist. I responded to what you posted. You apparently didn't post what you meant. I seem to have missed the contradictions. Could you please quote them? And you didn't reply to all my points.

You failed to acknowledge the bolded part.

... I did. You are cluttering this thread with half-assed claims which are quite simply untrue. Look at my first and third statements in that post...

... Attacking me doesn't attack my points. And you didn't acknowledge everything.

Or we can get someone to claim an unfriendly role and lynch them. Out of all of the games that I've played here that have finished, that's been the... only D1 outcome I've seen so far.

I don't agree with NLing as a rule, but I think constantly letting "to NL or not to NL" conversation dominate D1 is even more detrimental than a NL is since it's more about personal experience and philosophy than what someone's role is, so I haven't been participating in the "argument".

Just pointing out that last game D1 finished not only in a no lynch, but with 5 almost-confirmed townies, including our seer and a mason pair. This just gave the scum so many options for great kills...

That's last game. Why are you going so far as pointing out things that aren't relevant to get a no-lynch. Something has changed between this game and last.

Bolded...

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Something has changed between this game and last.

Such as hopes for this game actually getting beyond D1.

Seriously, with the game not even getting a single night you can't even say truly if what happened D1 would have been a good thing or bad.

 

[Chaos Jackal]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

You guys are more boring than growing grass... especially concerning how this has happened before and probably will happen again. Seriously, grow up. It's a game when it really comes down to it. You don't agree, you won't agree. And you know it. I can't understand why you continue.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

You guys are more boring than growing grass... especially concerning how this has happened before and probably will happen again. Seriously, grow up. It's a game when it really comes down to it. You don't agree, you won't agree. And you know it. I can't understand why you continue.

We probably won't agree; however, we need to agree to make progress. If half of us want to no lynch and the other half want a lynch things won't end well. Arguing is how to game works (and what makes it fun)

Or we can get someone to claim an unfriendly role and lynch them. Out of all of the games that I've played here that have finished, that's been the... only D1 outcome I've seen so far.

I don't agree with NLing as a rule, but I think constantly letting "to NL or not to NL" conversation dominate D1 is even more detrimental than a NL is since it's more about personal experience and philosophy than what someone's role is, so I haven't been participating in the "argument".

I actually think this is a fairly healthy discussion to have. It kickstarts D1 more than anything.

 

[Chaos Jackal]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

We probably won't agree; however, we need to agree to make progress. If half of us want to no lynch and the other half want a lynch things won't end well. Arguing is how to game works (and what makes it fun).

Arguing is part of the game and what makes it fun. Obviously, it's through arguing that we make progress. Fruitless, repetitive and pointless arguing however, doesn't help us make progress. Right now, we are not in a position where half want a lynch and half not. Hell, half the players haven't spoken. Right now, we're in a position where the so-called arguing is vented through only two players (you and Celever). The arguing has been essentially degraded to who twisted the other's words more. That kind of arguing doesn't help us make progress, and at least for me, it's not what makes the game fun.

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I think it would be a good discussion to have as a community.... not not in-game taking up time and effort that could be spent doing other things more productive things that would provide us with more knowledge of voting records and other things that might actually be an indicator of affiliation rather than personal philosophies and preferences. I'd prefer to see the subject come up in the general mafia discussion thread once this game has moved past the point where it's not a subject anymore.

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Also one more thing. No lynching is bad because quite simply it gives us one less chance to find scum.

No... It gives us more time to find scum which is the whole point of No Lynching.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

First of all you did and I pointed out where as I posted. Second of all I replied to all of your points; you didn't make enough of them. Third I pointed out the contradictions as I posted. Read back...

I didn't twist. I responded to what you posted. You apparently didn't post what you meant. I seem to have missed the contradictions. Could you please quote them? And you didn't reply to all my points.

You took everything literally, which was actually twisting words, funnily enough. You ignored what I meant as a way to avoid answeringt he points. I'm on my iPad right now because my computer has been infected with a malware which doesn't let me on certain sites, including PokeBeach, for more than a few seconds. This just makes it exceedingly difficult to make large posts and to go back and point out small sentences which are already clearly stated in my posts. Please can you point directly to where I haven't responded, as I have responded to your entire bolded paragraph earlier.

... I did. You are cluttering this thread with half-assed claims which are quite simply untrue. Look at my first and third statements in that post...

... Attacking me doesn't attack my points. And you didn't acknowledge everything.

Tell me where I didn't. I was also merely making a judgement on your playstyle and pointing out to everyone else how what you are saying is false.

Just pointing out that last game D1 finished not only in a no lynch, but with 5 almost-confirmed townies, including our seer and a mason pair. This just gave the scum so many options for great kills...

That's last game. Why are you going so far as pointing out things that aren't relevant to get a no-lynch. Something has changed between this game and last.

Bolded...

Because Athena said something contradicting last game about previous games and I felt the need to correct her. Nothing has changed with me between last game and this one besides the fact that in this one more people appear to be taking note and thinking about what I'm saying so I haven't given up yet. Plus, no lynch is far less appealing in a smaller game, so my arguments had admittedly less weight than in this game.

I think it would be a good discussion to have as a community.... not not in-game taking up time and effort that could be spent doing other things more productive things that would provide us with more knowledge of voting records and other things that might actually be an indicator of affiliation rather than personal philosophies and preferences. I'd prefer to see the subject come up in the general mafia discussion thread once this game has moved past the point where it's not a subject anymore.

Well whether to lynch or not is really quite situational. The debate will probably come down to "side games = lynch, main games = no lynch" which I can agree with,

 

[Scorched Feathers]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

You know, I'm just not paying attention to this, it's not going anywhere o3o
No Lynch is a bad idea because it gives the wolves a NK without giving town any POTENTIAL info from the lynch. It's typically better to run off some info then wait for the NK and have less of it.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

You know, I'm just not paying attention to this, it's not going anywhere o3o
No Lynch is a bad idea because it gives the wolves a NK without giving town any POTENTIAL info from the lynch. It's typically better to run off some info then wait for the NK and have less of it.

But on Day 1 the information you get from a target is really not that much. How many times have you lynched a scum day 2 after running off a lynch Day 1? Personally it's only happened a couple of times, all in expert games. There is really no good potential information either way. Why do we not buy ourselves some time to be able to have more lynches in the future when we actually have information?

 

[Scorched Feathers]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Because, this is still a Lynch, and it gives us information? No matter how you think of it, it's information, and buying time isn't gonna work, considering the wolves have a NK. We'll always have the same amount of lynches too.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Because, this is still a Lynch, and it gives us information? No matter how you think of it, it's information, and buying time isn't gonna work, considering the wolves have a NK. We'll always have the same amount of lynches too.

No? This is why MYLO is a thing, if you No Lynch you essentially buy yourself anither day to lynch someone while you have information.

Also Day 1 information isn't worth a lynch unless it is somehow useful information. However, Day 1 info is not good information almost all the time. This is why NL is so viable.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Okay, having read these back and forth arguments which seem to be leading nowhere, I propose we stop arguing. Clearly neither of you guys are going to change each others' opinions and none of you are particularly advancing the game. At the end of the day, what matters the most is that we all vote as a majority for one thing another, because if we don't, doesn't a random townie get killed? Lynching someone and No Lynch are both better options than that.

I propose that everyone post what they're in favor of and we can see where the majority lies. Of course, you can all still try to change each others' opinions and sway the majority until the end of the day, but having A majority is the most important part. Which leads me to my next point.

Usually once a lynch (or No Lynch) has gotten enough steam, the "bandwagoners" begin to roll in from wherever they've been lurking and start voting. I think these are the prime suspects. The ones that post just enough to go under the radar. The ones that have posted maybe once or twice without anything really meaningful in their posts. They post just to evade the minimum posting rules and get by. Now, I'm sure there are active scum, but unless they want to risk making themselves a target, I think most scum would try to stay under the radar at least at first. Which is why I take back my distrust of Celever.

##unvote: Celever

I think that the people who post the most are most likely town members, because they care enough to actually figure out what's going on, however, this idea can also be manipulated by the scum so I always take that into account and never assume someone innocent.

I think figuring out the majority is an important part, so that when the end of the day comes, we're not scrambling around with our heads cut off like chickens. With that said, so I am not a hypocrite, I still think some sort of lynch is a good idea. I do see the merits of a No Lynch, but on Day 1, when we want to get any lead possible, I think a lynch is a good idea.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Actually a random townie isn't killed if we don't agree on something on this site, it ends uo as a No Lynch OR just whoever has the most votes at the time. That reminds me:
##TheGuy, does this game use plurality? Or did I miss something - is Lenny right?

Also I would argue that this discussion is better than nothing. We really have no leads rn besides the things we can draw from the argument and the inactives...

 

[TwistedTurtwig]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I am going to park my vote for today on the next person who argues either for or against No Lynch. Any argument about it at all. Just throwing that out there.

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

OP is relevant to Celever's interests:

Vote using ##verb and unvote using ##unverb. If you don’t unvote, your new vote doesn’t count. Lynches require a simple majority of the votes remaining. For example, there may be ten players remaining but if there are 14 vote remaining the number of votes required to lynch is eight. Otherwise, the person with the most votes at the deadline will be lynched – if two or more people are tied they will all be lynched. Vote counts will not be provided upon request. They will only be provided once every twenty-four hours after the beginning of the game day.

So, plurality.