Finished Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Town Wins

[Meaty]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

No.
I'm not good at contributing very early in the game because it's typically too early to actually have cases on people. I'm wanting something other than a No Lynch because that gives town nothing, and they have to see who's NK'd to actually have info most of the time. When it gets down to it, Lynch or No Lynch, the wolves will still have their NK, and I'd rather attempt to lynch someone who looks decently scummy than sitting here doing nothing because that's how I play.

Ok it seems suddenly everyone wants to lynch SF. I would be ok with it, but I see no valid reason to. He has a very good point on day 1 being too early to have anything to go off of and I agree with that wholeheartedly. I don't think it's that smart to agree to lynch everyone like he has been, but we should still go for someone today, whether that someone is SF or someone else. SF actually seems to have a similar mindset as I do concerning the early game, that I described on my last post about 4 pages ago. The difference is I've been really quiet because of it whereas he's been trying to lynch everyone. This is something I don't agree with, but I don't actually think it's scummy behavior.

That WW God PMJ also thinks SF is scummy. Sometimes it's best to trust the opinion of me & PMJ others. As I stated before, if we spread out the votes too much the wolves can easily influence the kill with only very few kills. SO unvote alex and vote SF. Why is Grant looking at this thread for so long without posting/voting? Thoughts Grant?

That WW God PMJ also thinks SF is scummy.

>WW god
>using this in the case against me
That makes the case even less believable. Drohn, you're quite literally posting fluff, and expecting people to go along with it. Like, you're basically saying "hurr vote SF because pmj and me are hurr", which is totally flawed logic. You're doing what camo was doing to Luis, essentially.

And then there's this. First of all Drohn did to Grant what Machamp did to me. Calling someone out for inactivity is acceptable, but it also kind of shows that the person is trying to find someone else to look at, which can be a good or bad thing for both townies and wolves. And then I have to once again agree with SF about Drohn's childish argument of "PMJ votes this so we should all vote it." Yes, PMJ is a great WW player. Now my only problem with this is there is NO confirmation that he's actually town! Great players can be wolves sometimes too, and that's what makes them so dangerous! I would think that Drohn would know as much, so why is he so trusting of PMJ without any doubts? I don't think he would be able to know for sure that PMJ is town or wolf, unless Drohn was actually a wolf himself. That way Drohn could use the PMJ argument whenever PMJ accused someone Drohn knew to not be a wolf. On an even worse scenario, both of them could be wolves. Yes, this is all a little far Farfetch'd and day 1 is, well, day 1. That being said, I still think Drohn's blind following of PMJ is a bit illogical and possibly suspicious. If one of them turns out to be scum, it could be likely that the other is as well. I would be tempted to vote for Drohn, and I still am, but I have to say that veteran players like PMJ... Well, the wolves like to kill them night 1 when they're town. Of course once they read this post, they likely wouldn't kill him so they could get us to lynch him if he's town. In other words it might be a good idea to wait this out a bit, but this is something we should all consider.

So in this post it looks like I'm being really defensive of SF. I can't deny this, but this is solely based on agreeing with his mentality on the game and finding no actual scummy behavior on his part. The second thing I appear to be doing is attacking Drohn and PMJ (mainly Drohn, PMJ just kind of got paired up with him because Drohn keeps mentioning him.) I'm not going to suggest a lynch or anything, but I'm also not going to blindly jump onto the SF bandwagon like so many of you have. It's ironic how you all blindly agree to lynch him on the basis of him blindly voting for people.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

@Luispipe: Though that would normally be the case, fake roles are a thing, so whatever you post will go under extreme scrutiny and disbelief.

Okay. So, alex, seeing as you are kind of in danger of getting dual-lynched today, would you mind claiming? You haven't done that yet, and I would love to have a good read on whether or not your role is legitimate.

I was suspicious of you, Kecleon-X, for asking for a role claim, so I just went through all of your posts in this game. So let me get this clear, first, you state that fake roles are a thing, especially now that we know they get safe claims, and that the role will go under extreme scrutiny. Okay, that makes sense. Now you're asking alex to claim. Now, hold the phone. Let's go through the scenarios which happen after a role reveal:

1) Nobody believes him. He has an even bigger target on his back now. If he's town, we're lynching a town member. If he's scum, we prosper.
2) People do believe him. If he's scum, perfect for him. If he's really town, he has a huge target as a "confirmed town" for the scum to take out.

So the only scenario in which he goes untouched here is if we all go into a false sense of security from his role and write him off as town when he's scum. Three of the four likely scenarios are BAD FOR THE TOWN, and this goes with all role claims. Now, I'm sure there are some scenarios where role claims would be viable, maybe later in the game when you can somehow prove it. But right now, role claims mean nothing, and will only result in a townie being killed or being lulled into a false sense of security.

I don't think alex is scum, and I hope saying that isn't gonna come biting me back in the ass if he eventually flips scum.

Also,
##retract: Luispipe8

I don't want to lynch alex or Luispipe8, and I'm going to wait a bit before I make my next vote.

Kecleon-X, I am still suspicious of you. I'm not sure what to think of you, or many players for that matter, but you've caught my attention.

ALSO: Before I post this, I notice Meaty has posted something new. I am not wholeheartedly on the SF train either, but I don't want to see Luispipe8 or alex take the fall for this day 1 mess. I agree that we should be very cautious of Drohn and PMJ, as they are extremely good players who know how to manipulate. Seeing PMJ post, I'm always lulled into a false sense of security because I'm just so used to him being a nice and friendly guy.

But there's also the possibility that you, Meaty, is running to Scorched Feather's defense. I think this would be a bold move by any scum so I'm not sure that's the case here. It would be done more subtly if anything. I am definitely not accusing you of anything, but simply stating the possibilities.

I honestly don't know where to go from here, and as usual, it seems like Day 1 is the most all over the place as usual. If we want to get a lynch today, it seems like Luispipe8, alex, or Scorched Feathers are our most viable targets as the day is almost coming to an end. I'm not sure we can afford to change things suddenly. As the day comes to an end and votes start to matter, I will likely be voting for Scorched Feathers, as it seems like he's the best choice.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Oh, you have to put "un" before an unvote? I'm was confused for a while about the way you vote but I think I get it now. So much freedom in how you can vote. I never played this way back in the day. It was just vote and unvote.

##unvote: Luispipe8

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

If Luis is lynched today and flips town there is nothing in the world that is going to stop me from voting Camoclone tomorrow. Just putting it out there.

Also SF has just bandwagoned the past 2 Luis lynches.

I think at this point we really need to lynch Camoclone.

• random bullets
• that could be said about anyone
• and half of which just aren't true

These are the only posts I have made in which I say anything about lynching Camoclone. And the 2nd one was a joke. So no, I have not pushing the Camoclone lynch "so extremely hard".

ATM me and Scorched are tied at 5 votes but 6 people voting, with Luis at 3.

 

[Kecleon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

@Luispipe: Though that would normally be the case, fake roles are a thing, so whatever you post will go under extreme scrutiny and disbelief.

Okay. So, alex, seeing as you are kind of in danger of getting dual-lynched today, would you mind claiming? You haven't done that yet, and I would love to have a good read on whether or not your role is legitimate.

I was suspicious of you, Kecleon-X, for asking for a role claim, so I just went through all of your posts in this game. So let me get this clear, first, you state that fake roles are a thing, especially now that we know they get safe claims, and that the role will go under extreme scrutiny. Okay, that makes sense. Now you're asking alex to claim. Now, hold the phone. Let's go through the scenarios which happen after a role reveal:

1) Nobody believes him. He has an even bigger target on his back now. If he's town, we're lynching a town member. If he's scum, we prosper.
2) People do believe him. If he's scum, perfect for him. If he's really town, he has a huge target as a "confirmed town" for the scum to take out.

So the only scenario in which he goes untouched here is if we all go into a false sense of security from his role and write him off as town when he's scum. Three of the four likely scenarios are BAD FOR THE TOWN, and this goes with all role claims. Now, I'm sure there are some scenarios where role claims would be viable, maybe later in the game when you can somehow prove it. But right now, role claims mean nothing, and will only result in a townie being killed or being lulled into a false sense of security.

I don't think alex is scum, and I hope saying that isn't gonna come biting me back in the ass if he eventually flips scum.

Also,
##retract: Luispipe8

I don't want to lynch alex or Luispipe8, and I'm going to wait a bit before I make my next vote.

Kecleon-X, I am still suspicious of you. I'm not sure what to think of you, or many players for that matter, but you've caught my attention.

ALSO: Before I post this, I notice Meaty has posted something new. I am not wholeheartedly on the SF train either, but I don't want to see Luispipe8 or alex take the fall for this day 1 mess. I agree that we should be very cautious of Drohn and PMJ, as they are extremely good players who know how to manipulate. Seeing PMJ post, I'm always lulled into a false sense of security because I'm just so used to him being a nice and friendly guy.

But there's also the possibility that you, Meaty, is running to Scorched Feather's defense. I think this would be a bold move by any scum so I'm not sure that's the case here. It would be done more subtly if anything. I am definitely not accusing you of anything, but simply stating the possibilities.

I honestly don't know where to go from here, and as usual, it seems like Day 1 is the most all over the place as usual. If we want to get a lynch today, it seems like Luispipe8, alex, or Scorched Feathers are our most viable targets as the day is almost coming to an end. I'm not sure we can afford to change things suddenly. As the day comes to an end and votes start to matter, I will likely be voting for Scorched Feathers, as it seems like he's the best choice.

Okay, so you think I'm scum for asking someone who's most likely going to get dual-lynched today to role reveal? I hardly see how that's damaging. I'm trying to get him to reveal a role so I can give an honest judgement on whether I think the role is fake or not. That's all.

Better yet, if he goes untouched and he's not a wolf, then we're all set -- the priest will target him and the wolves will waste a night. I don't see how you see that as dangerous, but okay.

 

[Porygon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I will go ahead and vote now to avoid the tie in case the day ends soon.

##UnfalconPunch: Kecleon-X
##Scorch: Scorched Feathers

 

[Scorched Feathers]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

##UNkindredkick: Luispipe9
##whambampunch: alex

I forgot the "un", derp.

Luispipe9 what
I honestly feel like the main reason I'm being voted for is that Drohn is tunneling me, with PMJ backing him up. Luis will do anything to stop himself from being lynched, and alex is essentially doing what I'm doing, without even having a case on someone he suspects. Can just point that out?

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I don't have a case because I barely even suspect him. Celever just wanted me to throw out some names of people I found scummy so I did.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Okay, so you think I'm scum for asking someone who's most likely going to get dual-lynched today to role reveal? I hardly see how that's damaging. I'm trying to get him to reveal a role so I can give an honest judgement on whether I think the role is fake or not. That's all.

Better yet, if he goes untouched and he's not a wolf, then we're all set -- the priest will target him and the wolves will waste a night. I don't see how you see that as dangerous, but okay.

I don't think you're scum, I'm just suspicious of you. I'm suspicious whenever someone asks for a role reveal, mostly because at this stage in the game, even with Luispipe8's role being very likely with some evidence behind it, it means NOTHING. We don't know anything for certain.

The post I made was more of a statement against role reveals at this early stage in the game because if alex does make it to the next day, he has a target on his back for the rest of the game. True, there is the priest, but what if another role ends up being revealed? I just think the less people with a target on their back the better, so that means less revealed roles, at least for the beginning. Giving scum unnecessary information will surely lead to bad things. We want the scum working with the least amount of information possible.

I don't want to say that some townies are more important than others, but that is true. Roles have varying power, and if you force alex to reveal a very powerful townie role, it is detrimental to the town.

Going back to the Drohn-PMJ potential alliance, I think it's too obvious that they're agreeing with each other, which could mean it's pure coincidence. I don't think two experienced scum would buddy up that easily. It's very possible one of them is scum, but I don't think they both are. Just my thoughts on the subject.

I may just not vote tonight, as both alex and Scorched Feathers don't seem like the best targets. But it seems like the votes are headed in one direction or the other. I think we need to be cautious of players like Drohn and PMJ, but also the ones that go very under the radar. No scum wants to draw too much attention to themselves, so I think we need to start looking in that direction in the next coming days.

 

[Scorched Feathers]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Drohn has never been scum before Lenny.
Just saiyan.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Drohn has never been scum before Lenny.
Just saiyan.

What's the relevance? Can you elaborate? Do you mean he's never been scum in past werewolf games? If that's what you mean, that means nothing. I believe role distribution is random, and never being scum is just chance. I remember I was never scum for a long time until I finally got it (but the game got cancelled anyways), so I really don't think that means anything.

Unless role distribution wasn't random, Drohn never being scum means absolutely nothing, as each WW game is contained within and of itself.

 

[Wailord_2]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Drohn has never been scum before Lenny.
Just saiyan.

What's the relevance? Can you elaborate?

I believe what he meant was that in your post you used the phrase "experienced scum" and what SF was saying was that he was never scum before and therefore not experienced scum.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

What's the relevance? Can you elaborate?

I believe what he meant was that in your post you used the phrase "experienced scum" and what SF was saying was that he was never scum before and therefore not experienced scum.

I see what you mean, I worded my sentence very poorly and gave off the wrong idea. What I meant was two experienced players who could be potential scum. The "experienced" was meant to describe the player, not the player with a specific role. The mistake is on my part I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Scorched Feathers]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Drohn isn't very experienced either to be honest :S he played an important role in WWXX, and then was lynched D1 in WWXXI because he didn't know how safeclaims/indie roles worked. He's only played close to a full game of PB WW once.

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Camo that you randomly accused him to gain info was fine and helped the discussion. The fact you tried to tunnel his lynch after that and after seeing his role (that could very well be true) is only annoying and your reasoning made no sense at all. Alex and I (and others) thought so. I don't get at all why you are targeting Alex for it.

Athena, I saw you liked this post, care to pop in?

Camo's push on Luis was BS. I am glad people are waking up to this and unvoting him. If I were being more active in this game, I probably would have been more vocal about it earlier, but eh. So, in a similar vain, I can't in good faith agree with the push against you since I would have done a similar thing myself.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Drohn isn't very experienced either to be honest :S he played an important role in WWXX, and then was lynched D1 in WWXXI because he didn't know how safeclaims/indie roles worked. He's only played close to a full game of PokéBeach WW once.

Let me elaborate even more. A discussion of Drohn's experience isn't particularly important because what I was trying to explain was that Drohn and PMJ would not so obviously buddy up together and be scum, because they would stick out like a sore thumb. PMJ is experienced, so if PMJ was scum, he would most definitely tell any of his scum buddies to not buddy up with him so obviously. Which makes me believe that both can't be scum, but one of them can be (or neither). It's less a test of experience and more a test of basic intelligence and logic. They could scum buddy so obviously that I would overlook them, as I am doing now, but that is high risk and not such high reward. Just my ideas about the Drohn-PMJ idea. They should not be taken as fact but just my opinions, as it is entirely possible they're both scum, or neither are.

 

[Meaty]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

It's also possible one is scum and one is townie, when you think about it. It's like I said earlier, if Drohn is scum and PMJ goes against a townie, then Drohn will totally back up PMJ. It's just another possibility.

 

[Drohn]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Lugia123 already shared my ability with everyone and I posted my full role after that. I know there's a chance I'm lying, but if you look at my role it clearly isn't the type of role that the wolves/nobles would have.

I want to point out to Meaty that the post you mentioned was mainly a joke, something I said only a few posts later when I noticed people took it too serious. I do appreciate PMJ's input and since he has so much experience it makes me feel somewhat better about my choice, but I was already suspicious about SF before that.

I still really don't get why people are going after Alex, since all he did was defend himself and Luis against Camoclone. Of course defending someone could hint at that person trying to buddy with someone to clear themselves, but the chance of that being the case now is much lower than SF flipping wolf I think.

 

[Scorched Feathers]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

It's equal. I have as much chance of being scum as alex, but you've done nothing but tunnel me, which makes you look anti-town imo. You very well may be an indie still, we have no real way of proving it. I really don't get why people are going after me, so you're not alone Drohn //patpat

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

It's equal. I have as much chance of being scum as alex, but you've done nothing but tunnel me, which makes you look anti-town imo. You very well may be an indie still, we have no real way of proving it. I really don't get why people are going after me, so you're not alone Drohn //patpat

I am in two minds about whether Drohn is indie or town, honestly...

Anyway SF, there isn't much time left, but you do have majority somehow. If I were you this is where I would claim, even though I don't really like it, since I don't see how you are scummy. I may suspect you if you try and not claim.