Finished Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Town Wins

[Porygon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Holy cow that was a lot of posts.

Ok, so TheGuy answered my question; the scum gets an example town role. Because of this, Luis could very well be a wolf based on the nature of his role (could be a town role or a scum role), his weird reactions to camoclone's accusations, and his really late claim. In my last post I said I would vote for Luis if TheGuy answered yes to my question, but since then, Drohn/PMJ brought up good points about SF.

We have a few hours left. I'll hold my vote till the day gets closer to the end, but right now I'm leaning toward a SF lynch.

Why do you favour SF over alex? Just wondering.

Nice timing though!

SF's bandwagoning, and in my opinion SF just seems scummier than alex when reading over their posts.

Camoclone, even when I'm hopped up on painkillers and oxycotin, I still see your tells. You said you have info on why you tunneled Luis, now please, do tell.

Camoclone didn't have any info, it was all a stunt to see how Luis reacted.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I have a natural defeatist attitude early on and that's been seen before.

It was seen in the last game where you had an anti-town role. I'm pretty sure you told me on Skype your goal was to get others killed, you had some weird independent win condition.

Werewolf protip: Joking outside of the RVS stage is usually a bad idea lol. Unless you make it really obvious that it's a joke.

It's only a pro-tip if you say it beforehand.

That doesn't cut it though, because both arguments are just that we don't like their playstyles. You hate SF's extreme playstyle more than alex, I get it, but the argument for the both of them is exactly the same. Your only differentiated argument is the one that I made, that being SF made a post with a defeatist attitude. Not only does this make him an Archen like you said, it is quite scummy. However, claiming at that stage would have actually been a little scummy, like he just wanted to use his fake to clean himself because he got a bit panicky.

Revealing right away would maybe be scummy, but giving up is completely different.

alex has had even less pressure applied to him, so he wouldn't have really had a chance to have a defeatist attitude.

Look at the vote count.. Not quite true.

I also stated already that I think SF was just applying the pressure, just like Camo and I did, just in a poorly phrased manner. Even if you disagree with this statement, PMJ just showed me a specific example of his playstyle, which, once again, is an argument you cannot use without also accepting alex to be scummy for doing exactly the same thing.

Except that SF applied that play style last game where he was anti-town and Alex does it all the time.

However, that would also be a harsh backpedal on your part for little-to-no reason other than to try and get SF lynched, which would take a lot of credit away from your argument. As such, you just have to admit that you don't have a good enough case on SF to warrant lynching him over alex.

I disagree. I think that he showed similar behaviour in a game where he was anti-town and the fact that he isn't contributing at all makes him a great lynch for D1.

Furthermore, alex hasn't thought anything through. He has provided opinions on a total of four players, and barely mentioned anyone besides Luis and Camo, mainly focusing on Camo. Scorched Feathers has one better than that, giving us info should he be NK'd or lynched. What alex is doing is depriving the town of opinions which, while they shouldn't be taken as fact, are crucial to our success. This is also what a scum would do. I have made this point before and no one has countered it. Please counter this point, Drohn.

He does think things through (in a similar way as myself in this case I believe). He was against the Luis lynch and like myself he stated why and went against Camo's weird arguments.
The case on Alex isn't as strong. He just defended Luis and thinks Camo is acting suspicious, which I also agree with.

Your argument is now, like SF said, "he did this playstyle in a game where he was anti-town". Guess what? It was proven by Camo much earlier on that alex is playing how he does as anti-town too, amd both have played the same way as townies. Next..?

Also like I said, SF is doing more than alex. He is giving us a large range of opinions for us to work with should he die by whatever circumstance. Alex is not doing this.

Alex that's unfair to say "not replying because Camo". Do it anyway, or you're not getting a response from me, because right now you are avoiding contesting claims against you which puts your lynch a step higher than SF's once again.

Furthermore, alex, that post was defeatist whether you like it or not. Too late to undo it now!

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Why do you favour SF over alex? Just wondering.

Nice timing though!

SF's bandwagoning, and in my opinion SF just seems scummier than alex when reading over their posts.

Camoclone, even when I'm hopped up on painkillers and oxycotin, I still see your tells. You said you have info on why you tunneled Luis, now please, do tell.

Camoclone didn't have any info, it was all a stunt to see how Luis reacted.

Fair enough. However, do you not agre that SF is giving us more info to work with should he die, which is a very townie thing to do? Furthermore do you contest alex's scumminess at all? Just trying to get more people into the conversation here!

 

[Drohn]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

How is SF giving us things to work with? All he does is jumping on wagons except his own.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

How is SF giving us things to work with? All he does is jumping on wagons except his own.

Because by doing that he is stating that he agrees with their lynch. Alex has just buddied Luis, which is much less than even a bunch of bws.

 

[Drohn]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

So if we lynch SF we get much more info about their roles, since he was voting them. Lynching Alex won't give much info at all..

 

[Porygon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

SF's bandwagoning, and in my opinion SF just seems scummier than alex when reading over their posts.


Camoclone didn't have any info, it was all a stunt to see how Luis reacted.

Fair enough. However, do you not agre that SF is giving us more info to work with should he die, which is a very townie thing to do? Furthermore do you contest alex's scumminess at all? Just trying to get more people into the conversation here!

Even if he was giving us more reads (I haven't noticed actually), I don't think it's a huge deal, and certainly not grounds to lynch alex over SF. As for your next question, yes I do think alex is kinda scummy, but all he really did was defend Luis when camoclone tunneled without any logic. I'm not defending alex at all, I just think SF is a better lynch right now.

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Lol what do I even have to respond to here?

...for the sole reason that I am strongly defending someone I seriously think is town. As grant said earlier, this is how I play. If I don't think they are scum, and there is 0 reasoning to think otherwise, I'm not going to just stand by while they get lynched. Honestly this lynch would be extremely reasonable if Luis flipped scum, but I really don't understand this lynch without even knowing what Luis is. And Luis is just voting me because he's trying to vote anyone else he can to save his ass.

Alex does can not find any reason not to think of Luis as town. If you agree even slightly with the Luis case then you see a huge problem with this. Then Alex says "this lynch would be reasonable if Luis flipped scum". Isn't that every lynch? And then he points out how Luis is just trying to save himself. Does Alex not even find this the least bit scummy?

...Literally answered this exact question in my other post. And no, trying to save yourself is not in the slightest scummy. Who would not want to save yourself no matter what alignment you are? And a newbie would be even more likely to.

And sure what Camo put out about me beig wolf and defending Luis because I knew he was town makes sense, but it's also just unlikely I would do that. First off, because like I said I always strongly defend people I believe are not wolf. And second off because how is anyone supposed to defend someone they think is town if it can just be turned around like this with someone saying "they just defended him because he KNEW he was town".

It's not defending that is the problem. Alex defended without a doubt. He never said "this might be a bit scummy" or "yeah that was scummy".

"It's not the defending that's the problem" lmao then you better change your argument buddy. And I already responded to the defending without a doubt in this post as well as one when talking to PMJ.

TL;DR my motto is: "if you're gonna commit, you gotta commit".

What?

Not sure what you don't understand here... I'm saying that if I'm committing to something, I'm REALLY going to try to make sure it happens (Luis not getting lynched).

[/quote]

Missed this post when skimming over just now, but it makes a lot of good points I'll respond to.

I haven't mentioned anyone else because I'm not suspicious of anyone else. As I've said in other games I'm not a good scumhunter. I wait till we have information, which is why I want to NL day 1. I noticed SF and MtC so I pointed them out, because I noticed that the had been completely skipped over in all the talk about Luis and Wailord.

The fact that you are still trying to no lynch once you have so much information bothers me. This has been a very productive D1.

So much information? Is that why the town has jumped between 4 different people, all with very weak arguments for them? And is that why the town is so divided?

I'm not focusing heavily on Camo.

You are right! You were not focusing heavily on me. You were focusing super heavily on me. Look back at some of his previous posts and you will see that very few of them have nothing to do with me.

Lol I wrote a reply for this and then realized my reply was the exact same thing as what I wrote below this, which Camoclone obviously didn't read before he responded to the above. Yay for taking out of context!

All I've said (and I've only said it once or twice) on Camo is that if Luis is lynched and flips town, we should lynch Camo. A couple of reasons for this; 1) to pressure him off voting Luis,

This makes not sense considering if Luis flips town then Luis is dead. Announced pressure is dumb too. This is also the number 1 reason for him wanting my lynch.

Wow no way if we lynch Luis, Luis dies?

2) because I think he has been acting pretty scummy by committing so hard to Luis with literally 0 reason to think Luis is scum, and 3) to have an excuse to policy lynch him lol.

Again he adds fluff to it. "He has been acting pretty scummy". Notice he never tells you what I've been doing that's scummy. And this reason is terrible like the first. I've flip flopped throughout the day therefore I didn't commit. 3 is a joke or terrible reason.

"Notice he never tells you what I've been doing that's scummy."

This right here is why I didn't want to respond to Camoclone. Because I say LITERALLY IN THE SAME SENTENCE THAT CAMO CUT OUT WHY HE HAS BEEN ACTING SCUMMY.



There are your replies Celever.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

So if we lynch SF we get much more info about their roles, since he was voting them. Lynching Alex won't give much info at all..

No, if we lynch SF we get what is merely implied opinions to work from. Alex gives us few, solid opinions. However, what SF is doing is not limiting us to only a few targets the next day, which is a town thought process. What alex is doing is a little bit helpful to the town if he is town but not at all helpful if he is a wolf, whereas SF's play today is helpful to is shoukd he be a wolf.

 

[Wailord_2]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

After looking back on what everyone has said it seems a Luis lynch is no longer the main priority, and there have been other cases brought up that are much stronger than his, so

##UNVOTE: Luispipe8

As for who to vote for now, I'm not really sure. It has been established that alex and SF are the two main lynch candidates at this time. However, for both of them, the reason they are being accused is part of their normal playstyle, which makes it even more difficult to decide. Without knowing how either of them have acted before, I would lean towards voting for SF, but I will hold off my vote until closer to the end of the day, and hopefully more information will be revealed by then.

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Camo that you randomly accused him to gain info was fine and helped the discussion. The fact you tried to tunnel his lynch after that and after seeing his role (that could very well be true) is only annoying and your reasoning made no sense at all. Alex and I (and others) thought so. I don't get at all why you are targeting Alex for it.

Athena, I saw you liked this post, care to pop in?

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Lol what do I even have to respond to here?


...Literally answered this exact question in my other post. And no, trying to save yourself is not in the slightest scummy. Who would not want to save yourself no matter what alignment you are? And a newbie would be even more likely to.

~~ Agreed, I homestly don't find Luis very scummy any more ~~


"It's not the defending that's the problem" lmao then you better change your argument buddy. And I already responded to the defending without a doubt in this post as well as one when talking to PMJ.

~~ Yes, but you are using your usual playstyle and taking it to an extreme, which is exactly why Drohn wants to lynch SF lol. ~~

Not sure what you don't understand here... I'm saying that if I'm committing to something, I'm REALLY going to try to make sure it happens (Luis not getting lynched).

So much information? Is that why the town has jumped between 4 different people, all with very weak arguments for them? And is that why the town is so divided?

~~ Yes? These cases are strong for Day 1 besides Luis, anyway. But basically we have so much information and the town isn't deciding on one target because there are three, now two main, but good ones. ~~


Lol I wrote a reply for this and then realized my reply was the exact same thing as what I wrote below this, which Camoclone obviously didn't read before he responded to the above. Yay for taking out of context!

~~ You are the only person contesting the fact that you are focusing on Camo because it is clear to everyone, people just consider it scummy to varying degrees. You made it your duty to point out every single thing he posted which you felt didn't make sense or you wanted to not make sense. This is evident by the fact that I shared some arguments with Drohn in my case on Luis while we weres till trying to get a reaction from him and you did not contest the points. I'm on my iPad though, don't ask me to go back and quote them; I can't. ~~


Wow no way if we lynch Luis, Luis dies?

~~ Yeah, Camo didn't make sense here lol. He was assuming the fact that Luis would die I think? ~~


"Notice he never tells you what I've been doing that's scummy."

This right here is why I didn't want to respond to Camoclone. Because I say LITERALLY IN THE SAME SENTENCE THAT CAMO CUT OUT WHY HE HAS BEEN ACTING SCUMMY.

~~ Fair enough. ~~

There are your replies Celever.
[/quote]

Replies in ~~ tildes ~~ because iPad formatting is hard enough. Honestly I don't have anything to to reply to in your post besides you still contesting that you didn't just focus on Camo, because that is plain untrue. My case is that you are taking your play style to an extreme, which Drohn is willing to lynch one person over but not another, and the fact that you are being very close-minded with your scum reads and public opinions. I have more cases over the last few pages that I would prefer a reply to thant his post besides the thing about you not just focusing on Camo...

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I'm not taking my playstyle to an extreme. This is my playstyle. In all my other games it has just simply not come so close to lynching someone I don't believe is at all scum, so this is the first time I have had to be so extreme.

I don't understand why you still think I'm purposefully withholding scum reads. I've said before in response to this in the post I wanted you to read that I'm not a good scumhunter and that is why I do not have very many reads and prefer D1 NL. If what you really want is for me to give you some names, I'll give you MtC, Camo, and SF in that order.

I still don't believe I have said so much about Camo as you are saying. But I will go back and reread, and look for other things that may have been passed over as well.

 

[Kecleon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

f

Holy cow that was a lot of posts.

Ok, so TheGuy answered my question; the scum gets an example town role. Because of this, Luis could very well be a wolf based on the nature of his role (could be a town role or a scum role), his weird reactions to camoclone's accusations, and his really late claim. In my last post I said I would vote for Luis if TheGuy answered yes to my question, but since then, Drohn/PMJ brought up good points about SF.

We have a few hours left. I'll hold my vote till the day gets closer to the end, but right now I'm leaning toward a SF lynch.

Whereas I would normally agree with you, Scorched kinda does do this a lot and he's almost always lynched because of it.

One thing I just thought about with alex (there's no capital letter there), were he a wolf, it would be in his best interests to defend a townie, seeing as, should that townie get lynched (and Luis was most likely gonna get lynched), he would look a lot better in the long run. You know, I don't really agree with the lynch as a whole, because in the end he was doing something that I would do -- defending someone he feels is innocent -- and I can't blame him for that. But honestly, I'm going to give the idea two shakes and look back over his recent posts and see if he really is scummy.

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Whereas I would normally agree with you, Scorched kinda does do this a lot and he's almost always lynched because of it.

If I were playing badly, I would hope to god people would call me out on it and not continue to let me do so just because I do it often. How is anyone supposed to get better with that mindset? Maybe after enough times, he will stop and think before he posts fluff more than he tries to contribute.

I hate when there is a lot of posts since the last I looked in the thread. It makes it hard for me to keep up. I am doing my best to read everything, though.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I'm not taking my playstyle to an extreme. This is my playstyle. In all my other games it has just simply not come so close to lynching someone I don't believe is at all scum, so this is the first time I have had to be so extreme.

I don't understand why you still think I'm purposefully withholding scum reads. I've said before in response to this in the post I wanted you to read that I'm not a good scumhunter and that is why I do not have very many reads and prefer D1 NL. If what you really want is for me to give you some names, I'll give you MtC, Camo, and SF in that order.

I still don't believe I have said so much about Camo as you are saying. But I will go back and reread, and look for other things that may have been passed over as well.

Your playstyle is being taken to an extreme because you generally don't focus on one person and protect another with your life.

There you go, some more opinions for us to work with. Now please build a case on MTC, as he has gone relatively unpressured today so I'm not sure why you are suspicious of him!

Also did you find any conclusive results after going back?

 

[Kecleon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I agree that Luis should not use his ability until majority of CONFIRMED TOWN agrees otherwise in very late game.

(You know, with this mentality, I'm beginning to wonder why you guys are even defending him... :\ )

Okay. So, alex, seeing as you are kind of in danger of getting dual-lynched today, would you mind claiming? You haven't done that yet, and I would love to have a good read on whether or not your role is legitimate.

I also still don't agree on the Scorched lynch. He always acts this way -- most of you have all seen it -- so why is it suddenly scummy to act the same as previous games?

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

Your playstyle is being taken to an extreme because you generally don't focus on one person and protect another with your life.

There you go, some more opinions for us to work with. Now please build a case on MTC, as he has gone relatively unpressured today so I'm not sure why you are suspicious of him!

Also did you find any conclusive results after going back?

I don't have a case on him. I just don't like how he's been playing and imo he seems scummy.

I haven't gone back yet, haven't had the time, will later.

 

[grantm1999]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

I'm just going to go ahead and do this for now because it looks as though Luis is not getting lynched and rn I'm not sure how often I'm going to be back on here before the day ends.

##kindredkick: Luispipe8

##whambampunch: alex

(Kangaskhan OP)

 

[grantm1999]

RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 1 Ends August 2nd

##UNkindredkick: Luispipe9
##whambampunch: alex

I forgot the "un", derp.