Finished Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [AND THE WINNERS ARE...]

[Teal]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

I have been informed that Eron has deleted two posts in this game. Since the rules don't state that deleting posts is not allowed BUT IT IS FREAKING OBVIOUSLY INCLUDED IN NOT EDITING POSTS...

Eron keeps living but he loses all his abilities as a compromise.

Also not being allowed to delete posts has been added to the rules.

Also PMJ if that was your answer to pressure, you are required to quote the pressure post in the answer.

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

...fine. Fair enough. I did not read.

@@PRESSURE: PMJ Please post your role, or again if you have done so.

Sure, bbninjas, here you go:


To preempt those of you who would say "lynch him to prove it," I have previously been passed the Assault Vest which grants me immunity from the night kill once, but bars me from triggering any abilities, including passive ones. I've been holding it for a couple days, hoping to draw the attention of the scum in order to get cleared. That way I would not need to get lynched to be cleared (which would be sort of moot since I'd be dead anyway).

As further evidence my role is legit I direct you to this hint I dropped a while back:

Also celever I am a big fat townie so please get yourself modkilled.

Emphasis added.

 

[CrimsonFlame]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

List of confirmed people:

CrimsonFlame (Is HE Lucario?)

Yes.

Still reading, will post analogy later.

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Guys, I kinda wanna lynch Eron because of that. That's fishy af deleting your posts

 

[GM DracLord]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Guys, I kinda wanna lynch Eron because of that. That's fishy af deleting your posts

I don't think so. I think he may have mistakenly delete his post..(I hope so)

Right Eron?

But just based on that I don't he is a threat to the town

 

[Eron]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Oh well, I didn't know that we couldn't delete posts.

I don't remember why I erased 1 post, but the other was iirc because I wanted to re-write when I voted for MTC, as I didn't give a reason at my first post.
And none were accidentally, not going to lie Drac.

At least I'm alive :v

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

...How is wailord_2 still in this game?

 

[bbninjas]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

...How is wailord_2 still in this game?

I'm guessing he just missed the cut off date.

 

[Squirtle Squad]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Hmm im agreeing with ATA, Id like to see Eron lynched... Especially the part where his flavour talked about paradise..

Seeings as he has no abilities anymore he can't do much now, that's where I'd be voting!

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

I NEVER said Bigfoot's role was suspicious: I said the way he was ACTING was suspicious.

This is true, but that doesn't mean anything if you think he's telling the truth about his role.

I didn't think he was telling the truth about his role... I only think he's telling the truth about his role now because I think you're the last wolf. (I know your post later talks about me implying that without saying it, but I'll address that when it comes up.)

And I already told you that Bigfoot's ability is NOT THE REASON I'M VOTING HIM.

What makes you think Bigfoot would actually have that ability if he was scum? It certainly wasn't from me, because I never said anything of the sort.

Right, you didn't, but it's implied from your other posts. Like this quote is implying that you think he has it but isn't scum.

Well, that's not what I was ever trying to imply. I was saying we should lynch Bigfoot because I thought he was suspicious, and if he was town, I wanted to give him my advice as to who I think he should shoot. Believe what you will, but that's what I meant.

I NEVER SAID THAT WAS THE REASON I WAS VOTING FOR BIGFOOT! Oh my god, this is honestly starting to get frustrating

You find him suspicious for whatever reason (if not his claim), but you are trying to tell him who to kill after he dies. That means that you think he has his claimed role, and if you think he has his role, and it makes no sense at all to have that role if he's scum, then obviously you must think he's town. And you're trying to lynch him. I don't get what is so hard about this to get.

Read above. I didn't need to talk about why I thought he was suspicious because I already said why, but we did need to talk about who he should use his ability on if he flips town, because that requires discussion.

I have said absolutely none of the things PMJ says I have said in this quote. Also Meaty was a wolf, so yeah.

You don't have to say it explicitly because it's implied by your other posts. Also, I said that I failed to account for the fact that you easily could have bussed him with little consequence since you haven't been seen as scummy up until this point, and Meaty was basically dead anyway.

Well, that's not what I was trying to imply. Again, believe what you will.

Pardon the OMGUS, but I honestly think PMJ is our best lynch. Everything he's saying is either totally false or hypocritical, and I believe he's been trying to direct attention away from his wolf buddies/himself by making cases based on next to no fact or reason for this whole game (first Celever, now me. Both of which are townies in my eyes).

Leading wagons on people who eventually flip town does not make you scum. Also, scum are rarely lynched on facts. This is not a game of facts.

Yeah, but leading wagons for ludicrous reasons and being so adamant about them is.

He's probably trying way too hard to correct the mistake he made by bussing SF in Reign of Terror. I'm voting for him over Bigfoot today.

Get serious. You were scum right along with me in that game and you know damn well that me pushing SF's lynch was not a mistake so don't try to play that it was. If anything, bussing SF on day one was The Highest, Most Exalted, Genius, Top Tier Play of The Century(c) because after that day not one townie thought I was scum. If I hadn't gotten seered instantly, I could have done wonders for our team.

I do agree that the play was fairly good, but I'm not sure if you realized that yourself.

Contradictory? What!? When? If anything, PMJ has been contradictory, saying a few days ago that "Crimson claiming to have cleared Celever is a gambit that pays off for them in the end if they're scum so they're definitely both scum" then today is telling me "Bigfoot can't be a wolf because his ability encourages us to lynch him." Like... wat. There was no joke there, I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

I said they were both scum if Celever was scum. He was unconfirmed, leading the town, and the scum were leaving him completely alone, which made no sense. I found it suspicious that Crimson would come out of nowhere and clean my #1 suspect. Celever was already seen as strong town and it would make sense as scum for Celever to try and quiet any dissent as quickly as possible, especially since at that point I was the only one trying to get him lynched. So naturally when Crimson said Celever was town, I thought it was a gambit by two scummies.

After Celever flipped town, I admitted that Crimson was also town and stopped going for him.

Celever wasn't being nightkilled because people still suspected him. He was acting like he was leading the town, but I was always wary of him, even if I didn't want to lynch him over whoever it was we were going after. It makes perfect sense. It also makes sense why Crimson targeted him, because no one was really sure of what his alignment was.

I don't believe I have seriously pushed for your lynch. That said, if MTC is lynched and flips town, I will push for your lynch next.

If I'm not the wolf (which I'm not), there's basically no chance bb's a wolf, since Eron's ability cleared him. And Eron can't be covering for bb, since there's only 1 wolf left.

Your reasoning, regardless of what you posted, comes across and can be summed up from the previous Day's posts as "Bigfoot should kill a confirmed scum and if he doesn't want to then we know he's scum" - that's what I interpreted, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

As I said: Not what I was trying to imply. I never said that the person you were going to kill with your ability made you scummy, since you could always change it at the last minute, and you have no reason to tell us who you would actually kill.

Your posts in the previous day were made to manipulate, too. You wouldn't need to try manipulate town so much if your reasons had a decent chance of being worthwhile.

Manipulating? As in, "manipulating" the town to follow my lead? I mean, I want people to vote the same people I am. I don't know how that's suspicious. If you're talking about me asking you to kill Meaty if you're town, same principal: I want people to lynch/kill the people I find suspicious. That's the entire point of the game, regardless of your alignment.

You were tunnelling me yesterday, deflecting any idea of voting Meaty by saying that I should just kill Meaty instead. Tunnelling doesn't seem like a townie's thing, in my eyes.

I wasn't tunneling you. I did find Meaty somewhat suspicious, and I even said I was fine with his lynch, but I thought you were more likely to be scum. There was nothing to talk about with Meaty; we had all seen the posts he already made. Where as with you, I could get you to post more.

Also, this confuses me:

I'd like to point out that if Eron is the wolf, this result makes me seem much more suspicious.

If Eron is the wolf and is saying one SoJ is town, so what? I'm missing something here.

Well, for those who think there's a scum member in the Swords of Justice, it would have to be me if it's not bb. And as I said earlier, Eron and bb can't both be wolves, so bb is basically confirmed town (along with everyone else on Eron's list, but not Eron himself). I don't think it's really a good reason to vote Eron, I was just pointing it out.


Because people seem to have forgotten why I suspected Bigfoot (and still kind of do suspect him), the reason was how defensive he gets under pressure. Whenever someone brought up something scummy about him, he'd make some excuse that was someone else's fault. Here's one of the instances where it happened:

*bb brings up how CJ and Bigfoot were voting for the same person the day CJ was lynched*

bbninjas, I knew someone was gonna bring that up. Yesterday's votes on CF can be dissected like this:
I voted CF to see if Celever was town. CJ voted CF (and forced Luis to do the same) to keep votes off of himself. It helps scum kill town if CJ votes the same that I vote because if he dies (as he did), then you would think exactly what you're thinking now. "Bigfoot is scum because he voted the same as CJ!" - no, CJ is trying to kill me from the grave by manipulating you like that.

See what I mean? He acts this is all some evil plan by the wolves, and that the reason CJ made himself and Luis vote for CF was for the sole reason of framing Bigfoot. Well, not exactly like that, but to a similar degree. He was also unnecessarily defensive about claiming his role, even though we already knew his abilities and Pokemon name, and just wanted the flavor.

Also,
##VOTE: PMJ

 

[Reinforce]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Uhh, okay, I can see both sides' argument here. Compelling as their arguments might be, I think there's no indication yet that if we lynch one, the other will surely flip wolf. At this point they've both OMGUS each other already too.... What I'm is saying is they can still might possibly be just two townies that got too immersed in the heat of the argument and thus doing their utmost to paint each other suspicious here.

If we really are to go by the plan/idea of lynching either PMJ or Machamp the Champion today, we should still proceed with caution on the next day's lynch. Remember that there is only one wolf left. If it's neither of the two, then that wolf would have to be lying low and letting this ridiculously long and heated argument take the spotlight.

That said, if I had to choose between those two today for lynch... I've already been suspicious of PMJ since the Celever/CrimsonFlame argument a couple days ago, but the evidence there is more playstyle and post tone than anything. As for Machamp the Champion, I am indeed one of those people who suspect there's a wolf in the Swords of Justice basing on the wording on Drohn's role, and since there's only one wolf left... The evidence here is role-based and logical. And if that's so, there's no question which kind of evidence I would hold onto more. I want to confirm the Swords of Justice issue. That's why I will vote for Machamp the Champion if I have to.

 

[Squirtle Squad]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Going off Drohns role im almost certain there's a wolf in the SoJ..
And since Eron supposedly cleared Bb then that leaves MtC!

Since I only get one vote for the whole game I would use it if we needed one more vote to get machamp... So I'll hold off until he gets more votes.

Could we get a vote count please Teal? I think Machamps on 4? And it's 7 to kill yeah?

 

[bbninjas]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Uhh, okay, I can see both sides' argument here. Compelling as their arguments might be, I think there's no indication yet that if we lynch one, the other will surely flip wolf. At this point they've both OMGUS each other already too.... What I'm is saying is they can still might possibly be just two townies that got too immersed in the heat of the argument and thus doing their utmost to paint each other suspicious here.

If we really are to go by the plan/idea of lynching either PMJ or Machamp the Champion today, we should still proceed with caution on the next day's lynch. Remember that there is only one wolf left. If it's neither of the two, then that wolf would have to be lying low and letting this ridiculously long and heated argument take the spotlight.

That said, if I had to choose between those two today for lynch... I've already been suspicious of PMJ since the Celever/CrimsonFlame argument a couple days ago, but the evidence there is more playstyle and post tone than anything. As for Machamp the Champion, I am indeed one of those people who suspect there's a wolf in the Swords of Justice basing on the wording on Drohn's role, and since there's only one wolf left... The evidence here is role-based and logical. And if that's so, there's no question which kind of evidence I would hold onto more. I want to confirm the Swords of Justice issue. That's why I will vote for Machamp the Champion if I have to.

I would like to point that nearly all of the SoJ flavour and roles are small, while scum have been larger.

 

[Reinforce]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

And...?

What are you trying to say with that statement?

Are you trying to say that the length of flavour text should be used as a measure of whether someone is town or wolf? That's very subjective. Teal could have gotten wordy in some roles he wrote. I've never heard of any host taking into account the number of words and paragraphs and how long they make the flavor text as a differentiating factor between a town and a wolf role. I wasn't pointing out the length of Drohn's role flavour text as my "role-based" evidence either. It was the content of it, that as many people have pointed out, had strange implications, mainly that the SoJ might not be as united in here as they are in canon.

The length of flavor text on the role claim and reveals is indicative of nothing, as it can be easily edited or even left out completely, as seen in the role claims made by the wolves before they flipped.

 

[bbninjas]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

And...?

What are you trying to say with that statement?

Are you trying to say that the length of flavour text should be used as a measure of whether someone is town or wolf? That's very subjective. Teal could have gotten wordy in some roles he wrote. I've never heard of any host taking into account the number of words and paragraphs and how long they make the flavor text as a differentiating factor between a town and a wolf role. I wasn't pointing out the length of Drohn's role flavour text as my "role-based" evidence either. It was the content of it, that as many people have pointed out, had strange implications, mainly that the SoJ might not be as united in here as they are in canon.

The length of flavor text on the role claim and reveals is indicative of nothing, as it can be easily edited or even left out completely, as seen in the role claims made by the wolves before they flipped.

I would like to take in account all clues, even ones that may be coincidental.

 

[Reinforce]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

... Okay, I get your point.

Let's just keep in mind that coincidental evidence is not going to hold on its own, so in order to lynch or defend someone, we've got to find more solid ones.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Eron is a little suspicious, but I'd rather go after PMJ and Bigfoot first. Mostly because of the flavor; pretty neutral on his behavior.

The day will end before I have a chance to see the thread again, but I hope you guys lynch PMJ and Bigfoot after me. I'm very suspicious of both of them. Eron's third in line. Frankly, I can barely believe I'm getting lynched before them anyway, but since the town is so far ahead, I won't get too upset over it.

 

[rev3rsor]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

I'm here now and have caught up, kinda. So far I'm not really siding with one side or the other, so I don't want to vote for either at the moment.
I'm also suspecting Eron a bit due to the 'paradise' in his role, but otherwise I'm fairly neutral.

 

[Eron]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

Ugh. As reinforce said, I could have edited my flavour. And really, the flavour means NOTHING.

 

[Reinforce]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 7: ends Monday 3rd]

I beg to differ, it's NOT exactly nothing. As we pointed out, Eron, we're suspecting you because of the references to Paradise and dream in your role claim's flavour text, which has been mentioned a lot in the flip of all the wolves so far. What I objected over earlier was bbninjas saying that the length of the flavor text mattered in deciding who was wolf and who is town, which I said isn't really solid evidence to be relying on.

And true, perhaps you may have edited it... but then, what we're using as the proof of our argument in the case on you is exactly what you showed us, in your role claim. It doesn't matter if you edited it or not, because the rest of us have no way of confirming that. What matters is what you have posted here for all of us to see, and as we said, its contents rouse our suspicion for the reasons stated above.