Currently both TGK and I are at 7 (L-4), I just went back and checked. You may as well put your vote back on, since we're in no danger of a hammer.
Finished Werewolf XXX: Future in Stasis - GAME OVER! Town Wins! Now w/ Postgame analysis!
- Thread starter Reinforce
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Are you confused about how the game plays in general? If you are, would reading this help you a bit?
So you rather not allow him improve? A bad player can only improve if they actually play the game...
Your reads look very lazy to me.
And nice echoing everyone around you, btw.
Can you explain why there are more reasons to lynch tgk? I find the reasons to lynch tgk less solid than those to lynch Celever. Celever (Argumentative/Weak Cases/Tunneling) as oppose to TGK (potential backpedal/OMGUS/activity drop). I'd also so that, as someone pointed out last page, Celever has been okay with four other lynches aside from his own, which suggests scum searching for lynch options to push so others get off his own.
Anyways, Celever was distractingly argumentative, was pushing on weak cases and had tunnel vision on me for a while. I don't really see how these could all be townie actions. Meanwhile, town do backpedal, tgk is always quick to vote for Camo, and I believe that the activity drop is caused by school, as it is no longer the weekend like it was at the beginning of the Day.
tl;dr Celever has done things I couldn't see as pro-town, while the evidence against tgk are actions that both town and scum players perform.
I love how ironic this, considering you drilled me into the ground (as such) before.
Not at all, I'd love for him to improve. That's why I specified "if we want to focus on winning" in my post where I talked about him. If we want to focus on improving as a community, we should let him stick around a little while longer
.I don't understand this. You say I'm tunnelling you, but that's how someone pressures someone. I was replying to other things as well, but I wasn't pressuring other people while I was on your case because it'd make my pressure on you so much weaker. Even while I was pressuring you, though, I did express my thoughts on other options as they came up (though in our period of discussion there was a distinct lack of other people posting, so there wasn't always opportunity). You said that you use my pressuring well, and tunnelling is a byproduct of this. Camo does the same thing when he pressures.
And my methods of pushing someone are just different to Camo's. Mine do result in long tl;drs and it's somewhat of a nuisance (and something I'm trying to avoid), but the more I bring up against someone else and force them to respond to, the higher the chance there is for them to slip and/or contradict themselves in a lethal way. Camo does almost the inverse of this, but both are, uh, somewhat effective? Camo's more effective at pressuring than me, though I haven't seen much of him doing it today which does ring alarm bells for me in some way. Not too majorly, though.
Hopefully I've explained my actions from my (a townie's) perspective a little more.
I had clear opinions on the other players while my case was on you, though, and if events would have happened I would have updated my known in-thread reads accordingly.
You could always mention TGK's role being of less use to the town than mine. If the town goes in a bad way (which obviously isn't the plan), we get a guaranteed extra mislynch to use. TGK has protective properties, but no chance of using it effectively as it blocks the PRs which protective roles are put in the game to prolong.
...Going to assume you just don't understand tunneling as much as you think you do. Because I haven't been tunneling. I've been going after you in posts when I respond directly to you... Because that's the entire point?
You and TGK have both been on my list from the beginning. I'm actually currently voting TGK, which you may have missed and are now trying to make sense of without seeming like you don't know what you're talking about, because he is the better lynch in this scenario.
But with what you've done today, coupled up with your claim that is unprovable, I have no reason to think you are town. You have to realize that instead of continuing trying to argue it.
I won't even touch on OMGUS, since you've been called out for that more than once already.
And don't ask for my reads when I've already pointed out my thoughts on the situation repeatedly.
rekt m8
Celever: The bidoof claim.
TGK: Super early role claim.
Although both things has been done by each of them in past games.
What do you mean by argumentative? Isn't that relates to the weak cases he made?
He did push for other lynches but tgk not doing anything is also very scummy imo, and I don't buy the school issue. It seems to me that he simply hoped that people would forget about him without trying to contribute.
Both cases are strong but since people gave more detailed reasons to lynch tgk, there is more info to potentially get from them than the people who voted for Celever.
Good, I was worried that your sense of ethics had slipped... DxNot at all, I'd love for him to improve. That's why I specified "if we want to focus on winning" in my post where I talked about him. If we want to focus on improving as a community, we should let him stick around a little while longer
Woahwoahwoah
You're the one who is been defiantly going around saying "I'm not tunelling"! This is a major contradiction.
Isn't that what others that you claim are tunneling are doing? I feel like you've just turned around your argument on tunneling.
The problem is that you have been trying to build weak cases on multiple players, including people like scattered and Camo early on, which doesn't even make sense. Your vote on me didn't make sense either until you used different evidence that others pointed out.
Not really; you just ended up making a contradiction.
But you weren't you still tunneling...? Cause then I don't see the relevance.
I've seen jailing being much more useful than whatever little thing you claimed (or rather, omitted). Jailing can protect (nice if you would like to keep a player around for another day because they are scumhunting or something) as well as block the nightkill (which I've done before/seen done before multiple times ^_^).
Yeah, this is stuff they do iirc.
I mean more the early arguments + skipping of RVS due to rp.
I reckon that Celever searching for lynches to push to save him is more a scummy thing than tgk doing less because what he was doing before nearly got him lynched.
Didn't you just say that there is an equal amount of info gatherable from each lynch?
What reasons are there to vote for Celever, then?
Never! :3
I don't think I was tunnelling, but you all think I was. I feel like your definition is a lot looser than what I consider tunnelling to be, so I gave in and spoke in terminology for you all to better understand and better convey my point. Had I said in any of that statement "I still wasn't tunnelling!" the reader would have become fixated on that one part of the point.
#WerewolfScience
No, tunnelling is centring (close to) all of your posts in-thread over a given period around one other player. This is what Keeper has done over the majority of this game, as were you before our lover's spat where you then eased your focus on me (most likely because you noticed I had a point).
Weak cases = cases = reactions = leads. That's the theory, anyway. It's Day 1 and we didn't have much to go on; I would argue that my weak cases progressed the day much more than if I hadn't made them in the first place, and stronger cases weren't available at the time. My weak case on you did lead to you becoming a discussion point (which is exactly what I want when I pressure people) and I did use that evidence to get more reactions out of you. Nothing wrong with that.
FTR, though, I find @scattered mind extremely scummy and I'm planning on scrutinising his posts (in-game) tonight to arm myself with some ammo leading into Day 2. My case on him was weak, but as the day has progressed his contribution has dropped and he's made a couple contradictions (one of which you pointed out in the above post).
No, I don't think I was tunnelling. You do, but that fact doesn't mean that I wasn't consistently sharing my thoughts on all the other players in the game. Given I was doing this, my "tunnelling" isn't a bad thing.
For scum jailing is more useful. For town it's not.
I omitted it originally, but fully claimed within I believe the hour, if not then definitely within two. If/when two townies are lynched consecutively, I can wish upon Jirachi and stop the nightkill that night.
We don't know that TGK's jail is a higher priority than the nightkill in this game; don't assume anything. You can speculate, sure, but at the same time if TGK's reading a scum PR then that could also easily be a town PR. PRs tend to give off similar vibes, and TGK blocking a town PR could become a real nuisance real quick.
Looking forward to it ._.
...I don't think I was tunnelling, but you all think I was. I feel like your definition is a lot looser than what I consider tunnelling to be, so I gave in and spoke in terminology for you all to better understand and better convey my point. Had I said in any of that statement "I still wasn't tunnelling!" the reader would have become fixated on that one part of the point.
#WerewolfScience
You like never give in to anything I say, though...
Who's definition are you using now >_<
That's fair, I guess, but it doesn't help your case that it didn't do anything else besides get me overly frustrated with your determination to follow said weak cases.
Why do you go and tell scattered that you're gonna look into him over the night? That just looks like you're getting him prepared.
But you just said you were. *pulls out hair*
Fair... but isn't your role even more selfish/scummy?
Oh, did you claim that? I missed it completely. Honestly, such a claim doesn't suggest either scum or town, as it's just as easily faked as it is real.
Oh, true. Unfortunately I always assume that blocks will happen before the nightkill.
I reckon that if the town suggests who TGK blocks, TGK can use the town's judgement in addition to his own to make blocks. If he ignores town's suggestions, then likely scum.[/QUOTE]
@Jabberwock @TheFlyingPidove @GM DracLord @Vom @Ice Espeon
Thoughts on the current lynch options (tgk, Celever, myself, morda, Cypher)
Thoughts on the current lynch options (tgk, Celever, myself, morda, Cypher)
Haha, you're not the only guy ameliorating their werewolf!
It's my one I've been trying to communicate this whole time x_x
It definitely did lots of others things, though it might have made you overly frustrated too
.That was my intention. You'll probably find out why tomorrow.
By your definition
Oh yeah, my passive definitely is! However, it's not scummy and is provable, so it's definitely a little bit different. My active is super useful for the town, though unfortunately not provable.
My passive is provable in some way, which means it won't have been the role I would have got from RF if I was scum, since the entire purpose of safeclaims is to be a complete failsafe.
I always used to too. Like you, I had some feedback from Camo about my playstyle a couple months ago and this was one of the big points he mentioned!
Yeah, theoretically. I got totally chastised when I suggested who I thought he should protect, though
Celever:
- RPing
- Really terrible cases early. He should know better.
- OMGUS
- Flip floppy
- Asking for protection
- Leading
- Reverses roles - He does something then makes it seem like the other person did it first / baited him / etc
- Created a useless argument early and tried to keep it up
- Tries to blame sloppy play on playstyle
Yay thnx Camo
- I think this is a normal thing for TGK (and myself in some of my earlier games!), but it is also a scumtell as getting on the good side of people is generally advantageous.
- Yup.
- Yup.
- I reckon this is a combination of school + not wanting to be sucked into the Celever/bb argument like many others that dropped out during this time
- OMGUS on you, right? Because I think tgk is generally quick to vote for Camo (although I may be getting that confused with Yeowie).
- That's not exactly a reason... (i.e. How?)
- How?
- Yup.
- I think that's normal.
So, out of those, I think that there is three/four things that I would consider scummy coming from tgk, as the others are fairly normal.
- Yup
- Yup
- When did he do that?
- Yup; he does flip flop normally, but to a lesser extent.
- Yup
- I don't think he was leading, more just the above.
- YUP.
- Yup (basically #2)
- Yup
And here there is 5/6ish things that I would consider scummy from Celever's part.
I feel like that the reasons for voting for Celever and tgk are very different. From the evidence, it looks like Celever is being manipulative, tbh, while tgk is doing things that are just generally considered scummy. I do think that more of what tgk is doing is stuff that a townie may do, however what Celever is doing is not.
Anyways, I probably won't have anything else to say in regards to the two lynch options today; the above should cover it.
- I think this is a normal thing for TGK (and myself in some of my earlier games!), but it is also a scumtell as getting on the good side of people is generally advantageous.
- Yup.
- Yup.
- I reckon this is a combination of school + not wanting to be sucked into the Celever/bb argument like many others that dropped out during this time
- OMGUS on you, right? Because I think tgk is generally quick to vote for Camo (although I may be getting that confused with Yeowie).
- That's not exactly a reason... (i.e. How?)
- How?
- Yup.
- I think that's normal.
So, out of those, I think that there is three/four things that I would consider scummy coming from tgk, as the others are fairly normal.
- Yup
- Yup
- When did he do that?
- Yup; he does flip flop normally, but to a lesser extent.
- Yup
- I don't think he was leading, more just the above.
- YUP.
- Yup (basically #2)
- Yup
And here there is 5/6ish things that I would consider scummy from Celever's part.
I feel like that the reasons for voting for Celever and tgk are very different. From the evidence, it looks like Celever is being manipulative, tbh, while tgk is doing things that are just generally considered scummy. I do think that more of what tgk is doing is stuff that a townie may do, however what Celever is doing is not.
Anyways, I probably won't have anything else to say in regards to the two lynch options today; the above should cover it.
Read back. Everyone else has listed reasons and I have things to do. The OMGUS was on me. I would be more willing to accept him being busy with school if he had contributed at all. He hasn't. The claim is scummy because jailer is faction-neutral.
He was trying to lead. Read back for other ones.
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