What Do You Think Is the BDIF (Best Deck In Format)?
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RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
Well results don't lie. Blastoise-Keldeo is the only deck along with DarkHydreigon that has a lot of tops despite having an evolution. The rest are just basic EX and anti-EX clumped together.
Just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean it's nowhere near BDIF. It just means you lack experience/unlucky with the deck.
Well results don't lie. Blastoise-Keldeo is the only deck along with DarkHydreigon that has a lot of tops despite having an evolution. The rest are just basic EX and anti-EX clumped together.
Just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean it's nowhere near BDIF. It just means you lack experience/unlucky with the deck.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
I like Klingklang, Ho-oh and I also like Lando/Tornado/Mewtwo. Statistics don't mean much to me though. Idt there is a BDIF. It all depends on the player and decklist. For best card, it all depends on the rest of your list. With that being said the single best card is mewtwo.
I like Klingklang, Ho-oh and I also like Lando/Tornado/Mewtwo. Statistics don't mean much to me though. Idt there is a BDIF. It all depends on the player and decklist. For best card, it all depends on the rest of your list. With that being said the single best card is mewtwo.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
I'm not sure if you're talking to me, but if you are, Reshiboar is considered a joke. It was hyped for 2011 US Nats, but people quickly realized it was terrible. I believe it picked up a couple BR wins because so many people hyped it and were playing it.Riskbreakers said:
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
Not you, the poster above you. Lazy to quote
Not you, the poster above you. Lazy to quote
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
And @Martini So basically what you're saying is that testing IRL doesn't work and testing online doesn't work... Are we supposed to theorymon our way through every tournament or something??? Also, you really shouldn't write off a deck because of a bad tournament run with it. It could be bad luck, you, or what you faced. Quad Sigilyph won a regionals, so you shouldn't write it off as a bad deck or just a fun deck because you didn't do so well with it.
Oh ok, disregard my last post then lolRiskbreakers said:Not you, the poster above you. Lazy to quote
And @Martini So basically what you're saying is that testing IRL doesn't work and testing online doesn't work... Are we supposed to theorymon our way through every tournament or something??? Also, you really shouldn't write off a deck because of a bad tournament run with it. It could be bad luck, you, or what you faced. Quad Sigilyph won a regionals, so you shouldn't write it off as a bad deck or just a fun deck because you didn't do so well with it.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
I don't really think that there is a BDIF. If there was a BDIF, I don't think every single person in this thread would have a different opinion of what that deck was. The top tier of this format is mostly what people have been describing: Blastoise, Hydreigon, Darkrai/Landorus, Landy/Mewtwo, and if you don't mind me adding one of my own, Klinklang. The reason that none of these decks are the BDIF is because each one of these has flaws.
Blastoise is slow and inconsistent. It needs multiple energies all the time and because it is a Stage 2 with no supporting pokemon (like Sableye) it is less consistent to begin with. Otherwise, there isn't a single flat-out counter to Blastoise and that makes it very strong.
Hydreigon is easily countered and is also a little inconsistent. While less inconsistent than Blastoise or other Stage 2 decks, Sableye doesn't make it as fast as a basic deck. Darkrai is also extremely easy to counter and because of this can face a few bad matchups. Other than this, Hydreigon is very strong and faster than most Stage 2 decks.
Darkrai/Landorus just doesn't have the engines like Blastoise and Hydriegon do. It's easier for the opponent to knock out your pokemon and it's harder for it to keep up in the late game. In return, Darkrai/Landorus gains speed and versatility which makes it tier 1.
For Landy/Mewtwo, if all your energy is knocked out, that's basically game right there. If you run Tornadus it's not as bad, but it's still really hard to catch up with for example Blastoise when they are blasting you with 110-130 a turn and you're returning with only 60 or 100. But if it can keep itself going it can be very powerful.
Klinklang's weakness is basically just that early Landorus and Blastoise cause trouble for it, along with obviously Enhanced Hammer. If your opponent gets a T1 Landy and you can't get a t2 Klinklang or he started, you are really in trouble. Blastoise is also a hard matchup because as I said, Blastoise has no clear-cut counter and clear-cut counters are what Klinklang abuses. But, Klinklang is tier 1 imo because it kinda wrecks every other deck.
I also want to add that saying this format is a rock-paper-scissors format means nothing. EVERY format is a rock-paper-scissors format. If A beats B, and C beat B, B won't be a competitive deck. If C beats A or A beats C, that one is the clear-cut BDIF, which we don't have. Basically, a format either has a clear cut BDIF or is a rock-paper-scissors format, there aren't any other options and imo, the rock-paper-scissors one is much better.
TL;DR, there is no BDIF.
I don't really think that there is a BDIF. If there was a BDIF, I don't think every single person in this thread would have a different opinion of what that deck was. The top tier of this format is mostly what people have been describing: Blastoise, Hydreigon, Darkrai/Landorus, Landy/Mewtwo, and if you don't mind me adding one of my own, Klinklang. The reason that none of these decks are the BDIF is because each one of these has flaws.
Blastoise is slow and inconsistent. It needs multiple energies all the time and because it is a Stage 2 with no supporting pokemon (like Sableye) it is less consistent to begin with. Otherwise, there isn't a single flat-out counter to Blastoise and that makes it very strong.
Hydreigon is easily countered and is also a little inconsistent. While less inconsistent than Blastoise or other Stage 2 decks, Sableye doesn't make it as fast as a basic deck. Darkrai is also extremely easy to counter and because of this can face a few bad matchups. Other than this, Hydreigon is very strong and faster than most Stage 2 decks.
Darkrai/Landorus just doesn't have the engines like Blastoise and Hydriegon do. It's easier for the opponent to knock out your pokemon and it's harder for it to keep up in the late game. In return, Darkrai/Landorus gains speed and versatility which makes it tier 1.
For Landy/Mewtwo, if all your energy is knocked out, that's basically game right there. If you run Tornadus it's not as bad, but it's still really hard to catch up with for example Blastoise when they are blasting you with 110-130 a turn and you're returning with only 60 or 100. But if it can keep itself going it can be very powerful.
Klinklang's weakness is basically just that early Landorus and Blastoise cause trouble for it, along with obviously Enhanced Hammer. If your opponent gets a T1 Landy and you can't get a t2 Klinklang or he started, you are really in trouble. Blastoise is also a hard matchup because as I said, Blastoise has no clear-cut counter and clear-cut counters are what Klinklang abuses. But, Klinklang is tier 1 imo because it kinda wrecks every other deck.
I also want to add that saying this format is a rock-paper-scissors format means nothing. EVERY format is a rock-paper-scissors format. If A beats B, and C beat B, B won't be a competitive deck. If C beats A or A beats C, that one is the clear-cut BDIF, which we don't have. Basically, a format either has a clear cut BDIF or is a rock-paper-scissors format, there aren't any other options and imo, the rock-paper-scissors one is much better.
TL;DR, there is no BDIF.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
Well in theory, that is true. In practice however, we could see in results that majority of topcuts are made by those Big Basic EXs. There is no cookie-cutter structure for BDIF, however it would be insane to ignore the fact that the BDIF right now would be anything that contains Big Basic EXs slapped together and call it a deck.
Well in theory, that is true. In practice however, we could see in results that majority of topcuts are made by those Big Basic EXs. There is no cookie-cutter structure for BDIF, however it would be insane to ignore the fact that the BDIF right now would be anything that contains Big Basic EXs slapped together and call it a deck.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
Yes it is. It's not like Vanguard where I at least see different decks. Here it's just *yawn basics again*
But I will admit, it's a slight bit better than last format and miles better than the Sableye format.
Princess Skarmory said:
Yes it is. It's not like Vanguard where I at least see different decks. Here it's just *yawn basics again*
But I will admit, it's a slight bit better than last format and miles better than the Sableye format.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
Maybe a BR or two but it never proved to be near-BDIF unlike all these Big Basics and Blastoise
Martini said:
Maybe a BR or two but it never proved to be near-BDIF unlike all these Big Basics and Blastoise
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
There is no BDIF. A BDIF was Luxchomp, or Plox, a deck like that. We don't have that. Hydreigon, Blastoise and Klinklang are all quite powerful Stage 2 decks. In the past week, these are the Top 4s of each deck:
Keldeo/Blastoise - 15
Klinklang - 7 (a little shrimpy but I still consider it tier 1)
Darkrai/Anything - 11
Landy/Mewtwo - 13
Darkrai/Hydreigon - 10
Surprisingly similar, don't you think? The difference of a couple of Cities top cuts over the other decks really isn't enough to say it's the BDIF, but no matter what we did it would still prove your point wrong: Stage 2s are still very powerful in this format.
Riskbreakers said:
There is no BDIF. A BDIF was Luxchomp, or Plox, a deck like that. We don't have that. Hydreigon, Blastoise and Klinklang are all quite powerful Stage 2 decks. In the past week, these are the Top 4s of each deck:
Keldeo/Blastoise - 15
Klinklang - 7 (a little shrimpy but I still consider it tier 1)
Darkrai/Anything - 11
Landy/Mewtwo - 13
Darkrai/Hydreigon - 10
Surprisingly similar, don't you think? The difference of a couple of Cities top cuts over the other decks really isn't enough to say it's the BDIF, but no matter what we did it would still prove your point wrong: Stage 2s are still very powerful in this format.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
Try adding the data from all Cities results rather than just one week. One week of a sample size isn't that big when it comes to talking about BDIF. Klinlang had less than 10 tops the entire Cities so that should be disregarded for now.
It'd also be awkward to say that Stage 2s are really powerful where in fact
-DarkHydreigon at most only gets tops but not wins (9 wins total for the entire Cities in USA as per Pokegym)
-These Stage 2 decks are all going to die without their respective Big Basics (but that's beside the point, that should be reserved for the "Are EXs ruining the format argument")
It's only Blastoise that is a Stage 2 that can win consistently but not to the number of any random Basic EX deck. While it is true that it's not as blatantly obvious as Luxray LvX decks from before, I would still say that Big Basics have the consistency and pressure to outperform Stage 2 decks in the long haul and can be considered above Blastoise and can claim BDIF.
Try adding the data from all Cities results rather than just one week. One week of a sample size isn't that big when it comes to talking about BDIF. Klinlang had less than 10 tops the entire Cities so that should be disregarded for now.
It'd also be awkward to say that Stage 2s are really powerful where in fact
-DarkHydreigon at most only gets tops but not wins (9 wins total for the entire Cities in USA as per Pokegym)
-These Stage 2 decks are all going to die without their respective Big Basics (but that's beside the point, that should be reserved for the "Are EXs ruining the format argument")
It's only Blastoise that is a Stage 2 that can win consistently but not to the number of any random Basic EX deck. While it is true that it's not as blatantly obvious as Luxray LvX decks from before, I would still say that Big Basics have the consistency and pressure to outperform Stage 2 decks in the long haul and can be considered above Blastoise and can claim BDIF.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
First off, let's look at the Pokegym cities thread found here. Blastoise/Keldeo and Landorus/Mewtwo/Stuff have won the most cities by quite a bit, meaning that one of them is going to be BDIF.
Keldeo one-shots Landorus-EX. This is one of the reasons it done so well at Cities. However, Landorus/Mewtwo lists that play Tornadus-EX (most of them do) tend to beat Keldeo/Blastose. This is because it takes them a while to set up a Blastoise, and Tornadus can OHKO their Squirtles, as well as get quick some early damage on their Keldeos. Keldeo/Blastoise is also really weak to Mewtwo-EX, which of course is also played in Landorus/Mewtwo/stuff. For this reason, I think White Tea is BDIF.
Also, Landorus/Mewtwo/Tornadus has a better matchup against Darkrai varients than Keldeo/Blastoise does. From all of the cities I've been to and all of the playtesting that I've done, I've learned that any good player who uses Landorus can easily beat Darkrai varients. Keldeo/Blastoise, on the other hand, still has a decent matchup against Darkrai, but suffers more against it due to the speed factors. In fact, White Tea has a better general matchup against most things than Keldeo/Blastoise has.
First off, let's look at the Pokegym cities thread found here. Blastoise/Keldeo and Landorus/Mewtwo/Stuff have won the most cities by quite a bit, meaning that one of them is going to be BDIF.
Keldeo one-shots Landorus-EX. This is one of the reasons it done so well at Cities. However, Landorus/Mewtwo lists that play Tornadus-EX (most of them do) tend to beat Keldeo/Blastose. This is because it takes them a while to set up a Blastoise, and Tornadus can OHKO their Squirtles, as well as get quick some early damage on their Keldeos. Keldeo/Blastoise is also really weak to Mewtwo-EX, which of course is also played in Landorus/Mewtwo/stuff. For this reason, I think White Tea is BDIF.
Also, Landorus/Mewtwo/Tornadus has a better matchup against Darkrai varients than Keldeo/Blastoise does. From all of the cities I've been to and all of the playtesting that I've done, I've learned that any good player who uses Landorus can easily beat Darkrai varients. Keldeo/Blastoise, on the other hand, still has a decent matchup against Darkrai, but suffers more against it due to the speed factors. In fact, White Tea has a better general matchup against most things than Keldeo/Blastoise has.
RE: After Cities started, what do you think is the BDIF?
Another Cities down (our locals) and Big Basic decks made 5 out of the Top 8 with the other three being two Empos and a Blastpony. Basics won the entire thing though
Another Cities down (our locals) and Big Basic decks made 5 out of the Top 8 with the other three being two Empos and a Blastpony. Basics won the entire thing though
