Why is Arceus having success at BR's
- Thread starter NJPokeDad
- Start date
Obsidius - I agree with you about Ripple Swell.
That's the point I am trying to make. Ripple Swell is critical to an Arceus Deck. Even if it takes six cards to knock out 1 Arceus lvl x, after it's knocked out you will have no energy left to attack without ripple swell.
Someone previously mentioned you don't need ripple swell to run Arceus, and I just don't see how. Unless you are playing against a slow deck.
That's the point I am trying to make. Ripple Swell is critical to an Arceus Deck. Even if it takes six cards to knock out 1 Arceus lvl x, after it's knocked out you will have no energy left to attack without ripple swell.
Someone previously mentioned you don't need ripple swell to run Arceus, and I just don't see how. Unless you are playing against a slow deck.
NJPokeDad said:
You don't NEED Ripple Swell in order to get Arceus going, but it wouldn't hurt.
For example, you don't have to start by using all of your discarding attacks to gain a quick lead like SP does. You could use {W}/{F}/{R} Arceus' attacks then Sky Spear followed by a Ripple Swell to recoup your expenses. Arceus is one of the few decks that won't mind being down a few prizes and the fact that all you have to do is get 6 different Arceus in play to increase your energy count up to 6 for FREE, makes Ripple Swell nice to fall back on.
It really comes down to the match up and deck list or more importantly, the Trainer line. It depends on if your deck is set up for a speedy Ripple Swell(i.e. Great/Dual Ball) or versatility(i.e.Energy Exchanger,Rainbow/Warp Energy).
Its a very Meta-dependent deck that can defeat any deck that your prepared for, but struggle against others.
In the situation with 2 garchomps, if ripple swell doesn't seem to be an option, playing in that fashion isn't smart gameplay.
Play each energy on a benched 90 go arceus and dare them to take one out or take out the active. If they ko the active, move another up, move energy up, lvx, ko. Then you have 120HP undamaged omni that may/should be ready to attack next turn (depending on type advantage/flip for bright flame, if needed.). Continue to spread energy in safe locations and retreat/switch/warp energy as needed.
As obsidius stated, there are variants that are focused on ripple swell, so in may be possible that those decks would suffer much harder w/o ripple swell, they probably suffer pretty hard under trainer lock as well.
Its not as easy to play out of a non ripple swell, but entirely possible. Its good that people think that way, it can be a shock when arceus is set up for ripple swell and you bypass it to begin a well formulated attack.
Play each energy on a benched 90 go arceus and dare them to take one out or take out the active. If they ko the active, move another up, move energy up, lvx, ko. Then you have 120HP undamaged omni that may/should be ready to attack next turn (depending on type advantage/flip for bright flame, if needed.). Continue to spread energy in safe locations and retreat/switch/warp energy as needed.
As obsidius stated, there are variants that are focused on ripple swell, so in may be possible that those decks would suffer much harder w/o ripple swell, they probably suffer pretty hard under trainer lock as well.
Its not as easy to play out of a non ripple swell, but entirely possible. Its good that people think that way, it can be a shock when arceus is set up for ripple swell and you bypass it to begin a well formulated attack.
Well, I just did my best 2/3 with an Arceus deck! I won the first two just like we said: No ripple swell = No game. I stopped Ripple Swell, trainer locked, and tanked it down. He refused to even play the third game, although I offered.
(And before somebody tries to discredit the win, it WAS an experienced Arceus player!)
(And before somebody tries to discredit the win, it WAS an experienced Arceus player!)
Obsidius "Its a very Meta-dependent deck that can defeat any deck that your prepared for, but struggle against others."
I think that is an excellent point. I can definitely see an Arceus deck working if you build it to beat a few specific decks and face those decks.
I tried Arceus before and I am going to build it again. However, even though it is supposed to be good against SP I think it will shine once SP is gone.
I don't see any other decks being as fast as Arceus, nor will they be able to cover so much weakness. Also, Machamp will be gone.
I know lost zone will be a big factor going forward, but I do believe Arceus will have it's time, just not now. Unfortunately it seems SP decks are just too strong for anything right now.
I think that is an excellent point. I can definitely see an Arceus deck working if you build it to beat a few specific decks and face those decks.
I tried Arceus before and I am going to build it again. However, even though it is supposed to be good against SP I think it will shine once SP is gone.
I don't see any other decks being as fast as Arceus, nor will they be able to cover so much weakness. Also, Machamp will be gone.
I know lost zone will be a big factor going forward, but I do believe Arceus will have it's time, just not now. Unfortunately it seems SP decks are just too strong for anything right now.
Few points I would like to make:
1) Ripple Swell is needed. Unless you can T2 snipe and fall back on a ripple swell, you are not going to make it far.
2) There's no point discrediting Rikko's win. Although I didn't play him, or see the match, I cannot discredit his win.
3) I noticed there are some biased answers
4) We can theorymon all day but it won't get us anywhere. Let the higher level tourneys decide that
1) Ripple Swell is needed. Unless you can T2 snipe and fall back on a ripple swell, you are not going to make it far.
2) There's no point discrediting Rikko's win. Although I didn't play him, or see the match, I cannot discredit his win.
3) I noticed there are some biased answers
4) We can theorymon all day but it won't get us anywhere. Let the higher level tourneys decide that
It's fine, everyone will welcomed to their own opinions.
If experience = biased, then so be it.
Ripple Swell isn't absolutely need and I look forward to proving it and the worth of Arceus in general in the higher tournaments, because in the end, that's what really matters, right?
If experience = biased, then so be it.
Ripple Swell isn't absolutely need and I look forward to proving it and the worth of Arceus in general in the higher tournaments, because in the end, that's what really matters, right?
I'm just taking both sides here. I personally got top 8 regionals with Arceus, losing to gyarados because of decklist problems and take backs, but that's my fault. Arceus is good, but seeing people saying that it doesn't need ripple swell and that it is bdif make it seem stupid. It is definitely a great deck; people are just making outrageous points about it. And yes, it does need ripple swell. Unless your build is make to hit for ohkos, you will get beat out in the end.
it's not as tho I am saying don't play Ripple Swell Arceus. I'm just saying that isn't required to win any given game. Obviously it's a unique attack that provides Arceus quite a lot of speed. It seems ripple swell is the focus of most Arceus conversations, even tho that deck runs much deeper than that. It's not just a 1 trick deck that dies if you shut down ripple swell. (Tho it may be the case that some Arceus decks cannot win a game without using ripple swell.)
Your comments are making me think. What if all the arguments given are valid? Maybe some people are playing a few of the Arceus that only have 2 energies for their attack costs, therefore ripple swell isn't necessary. Or those that play more of the ones with 3 for the attack costs say it is necessary. The people that play both, or a majority of one and some others tossed in, say that it helps a lot, but isn't vitally necessary.
DCE + 1 Fire energy is 80 damage. Unless they rare candy/bts, that'll usually be a KO.
If you run expert belt, even the weak attacks can hit big with type advantage. 30+20=50*2=100. With that sort of attack, there's no energy discard.
I'm not saying its foolproof or easy, I just think there are Arceus builts that can play a slightly different style.
Not blitzing for ripple swell may make some games harded, but may provide a balanced gameplay if ripple swell isn't an option of the best option.
If you run expert belt, even the weak attacks can hit big with type advantage. 30+20=50*2=100. With that sort of attack, there's no energy discard.
I'm not saying its foolproof or easy, I just think there are Arceus builts that can play a slightly different style.
Not blitzing for ripple swell may make some games harded, but may provide a balanced gameplay if ripple swell isn't an option of the best option.
Whoever could not ripple swell against dialgachomp has a horrid list and cannot bluff or force a player out of deafening without losing both fire arceus. Also, I think chanman wrote that report on arceus back on pokegym a while back. If he did, he’s the most legit one here, building arceus well enough to pull him there. Arceus does ripple swell more often than not, but when you face gardy with t1 dusknoir, it’s time to make grown men cry by playing 3 arceus at a time and win.
The player was actually very good. He actually DID use the {R} Arceus, but I survived. I also sniped the living crap out of him AND Judged, so that he COULDN'T get a Ripple Swell going. So before you go off and try to say that the only reason I won was because of luck and/or they sucked, how about you figure out what you're talking about? And I know for a fact it wasn't a bad list, because during our game the other night we came down to 1-1 in prizes. Still won, but it was close. And try sayng that my DialgaChomp just sucks because it came to 1-1 with an Arceus? I been playing it since last year's states, top 64 @ Nats, and topped at just about one of every tournament last year. And he had done well, also. Maybe you should ASK the skill of the player before you start trying to discredit the outcomes of his games!
The only thing I can really say on this is that players have yet to refine Arceus to the levels that Luxchomp, DialgaChomp, etc...
Some of those decks have had 100,000's of games per week for months.
It's possible players will continue to expand on how Arceus is played and begin to work around certain issues/counters has the year progresses.
Some of those decks have had 100,000's of games per week for months.
It's possible players will continue to expand on how Arceus is played and begin to work around certain issues/counters has the year progresses.
=[ I feel accused. I only said that whoever couldn't ripple swell against dialgachomp just wasn't playing well, presumably. Arceus should be built to get Arceus in play, and if he was playing as well as he could, he hadn't prepared versus a DialgaChomp. If he had a good list, he wasn't prepared for multiple judges. If both, I'd guess it's luck, because I haven't seen a game where a player with our group Arceus list has failed to get 6 different non-fire Arceus out with a Colorless active. Now I feel too accusing xP As jeremy said, Arceus is unrefined. I'm just confident that Arceus sets up much faster than people have said.
~L_X_F
~L_X_F