Yveltal EX / Darkrai EX

RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

TuxedoBlack said:
DSJ said:
Just curious, how many dark patch do you guys run, as well as how many lasers you run.? I run 3 of each.
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I also only run 3 (I have yet to be in a situation when I could play 4 Dark Patches in a single turn); no need to ever run 4, IMHO, because you can just Junk Hunt these back into your hand (hence, maintaining deck's consistency is not an issue me). One of the great advantages of running this deck.
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You seem to rely on Junk Hunt too much, what happens when stuff gets prized or you play all your resources down in one turn, never rely on Sableye's Junk Hunt. This deck is scary because the speed and consistency it has. Sableye is only for T1/2 and maybe late game if you need a Catcher or something. Although this can change depending on the matchup.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

Blui said:
You seem to rely on Junk Hunt too much, what happens when stuff gets prized or you play all your resources down in one turn, never rely on Sableye's Junk Hunt.
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"...too much...?" No. I just know that after I conduct my first deck inventory (i.e., searching through the deck accounting for available resources) how JH may/may not affect the game's strategy.

"...never rely on Sableye's Junk Hunt?" Lol. This is one of the deck's greatest advantages. Who has ever played this deck and not used (aka "rely on") Junk Hunt? And you use it because its integral to the deck's strength.

Blui said:
Although this can change depending on the matchup.
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No kidding...
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

My opinion is 4 dark patch, period, no questions asked. Just because you won't use three in one turn doesn't mean you might need that 4th one, not to mention you want to hit them as early as possible. Dark Patch is literally the reason this deck works and it holds the entire structure of the deck together. Cutting it down to three lowers consistency and gives more room for the deck to collapse in on itself if you can't charge up an attacker quickly enough.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

On the other hand, freeing up that one card slot allows room for another useful card that may be needed in certain, critical matches too.

So, let's agree to disagree on that point.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

The problem is that Dark Patch is just too good of a card to pass up on, let alone only running 3, actually Dark Patch is even more useful than Catcher in this deck! It's a little bogus to think that you have to resort to Dark Patch to get "extra space" when other mere tech cards you get rid of either get rid of little or no consistency and getting rid of a Dark Patch is really almost a last resort that is if even considered. This is why his deck can even earn the name "Darkrai speed". You get energy acceleration from an ITEM making turn one energy acceleration accessible. Running 4 Dark Patch increases this chance that is a main reason why people run 4 Dark Patch.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

DSJ said:
Brave Vesperia said:
Run 4 of each for max consistency.
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Well, the thing is that I run hammers, so space for things such as these can be a little tight... But I do know that for maximum consistency you need 4 of each.
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I cut 1 energy switch, and 1 ultra ball so I only run 3 of those. Also having 10 energy is enough, if you run 12 that might be a part of your problem. As stated before though you absolutely need 4 dark patch for max consistency.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

You NEED the 4 Ultra Balls if you want to T2 Night Spear consistently
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

DrunkSpinda said:
You NEED the 4 Ultra Balls if you want to T2 Night Spear consistently
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2/3 games I'll get a t2 darkrai. That's pretty consistent if you ask me, sure you could run 4 and you might get a darkrai a little more often, but including hammers changes your deck phenomally. T2 darkrai is very important in speed darkrai, but imo speed darkrai and darkrai hammers are 2 different decks.

Teching in hammers drastically changes darkrai's bad matchups mainly being KK and Big Basics. If you can consistently deny energy to either of these decks, you get setup and win.


On another note, has anyone been testing Absol in this deck? I tried testing it with 2 and it's really good, you have to take out the hammers to keep consistency because you can't cut anything else but it makes the matchups vs. TDK, Rayeels and Klinklang a lot easier.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

Literally just posting to say Agressiv is spot on with what he's been saying. 3 Ultra Ball works perfectly fine, and 10 energy and an Energy Search also works well.

On the Absol note, it's done amazingly well in my testing with it. It straight up demolishes TDK because they struggle to function at all without a full bench and you can hammer the energy off the Kyurems to prevent them from OHKOing you without 4 Deoxys. It's great for taking out a Kyurem in an emergency also.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

@Blah,

Have you been running 1 or 2 enhanced hammers? And just wondering, how did you choose to make room for absol, Take out crushing hammers?
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

My Pokemon line looks like this:

3 Darkrai
3 Sableye
1 Absol
1 Keldeo

I've been running 3 Crushing Hammer and 2 Enhanced as my Hammer line. The deck's a little tight space and I'm running less supporters than I like to (13, I prefer 14-15) but it's been working well. I may take out the Crushing Hammers for another Enhanced and more consistency, but I'm still testing both versions
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

I would run another Absol or Darkrai. This gets less mulligans and the occasional Keldeo EX start. It seems like a silly reason but you really don't want those starts to a game because most of the action is on T1 and 2.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

^ Hit the nail on the head. I would suggest taking out the hammers. Hammer spamming is really good, but absol puts that second option vs. Klinklang (the big reason I put hammers in), as well sabelye can usually get OHKO'd by Plasma box making hammer spamming much less efficient against one of the tier 1 decks.

I run
3 Sabelye
4 Darkrai
2 Absol
1 Keldeo

I took out the 3 crushing hammers considering that you now have a counter to the decks that hammers usually work wonders aganst.
Landy decks excluded, with 2 enhanced and 2 absol, darkrai doesn't have any bad matchups. Also, a friend of mine showed me a support line which I really like if you're support line isn't as consistent as you would like.


4 Juniper
4 N
3 Bianca
1 Skyla
1 RR

It keeps the support line at 13, and bianca usually nets 4-5 cards with the amount of ways to discard in darkrai, with the RR you have a really consistent support line and don't need 14-15.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

My Supporters consist of:

3 - Bianca
1 - Colress (given the "anticipated" number of near-full to full benches, this draw card is "expected" to be quite helpful)
1 - Ghetsis (did have 2, but didn't like it. 1 seems right, but used only in particular situations)
4 - N
3 - PJ
2 - Skyla
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

Also, I've been testing and 99% of the times, two switches do a better job than Keldeo
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

I would keep those 3 crushing hammers.Not all plasma lists are 100% special energies. Quad Kyurem PLF-Quad Deoxys EX is an example of such deck. There still will be Landorus Ex holdouts in the first weeks of Battle roads that's why the aforementioned deck will be good.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

TuxedoBlack said:
My Supporters consist of:

3 - Bianca
1 - Colress (given the "anticipated" number of near-full to full benches, this draw card is "expected" to be quite helpful)
1 - Ghetsis (did have 2, but didn't like it. 1 seems right, but used only in particular situations)
4 - N
3 - PJ
2 - Skyla
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A quick question, why are you only running 3 of the best draw supporter in the format? Colress and ghetsis are sub-par (but workable) supports in darkrai, but 4 juni is a must to keep things going.

@Robert,
I'm not saying that crushing hammers are useless in this deck, but in order to keep a consistent darkrai list as well as fit in absol something needs to be cut. And if you're running hammers there's nothing else that can be taken out without sacrificing a good deal of consistency, or power (lasers).

In the testing that I've done 2 enhanced hammers handles plasma box pretty well, even the ones that run 1-2 basic energy. The main reason darkrai does so well against TDK isn't because it can keep denying energy though, it's good vs. TDK because all it's ex's are the magic 170, which makes it possible for darkrai to do a 4 prize turn. IMO, you should take out hammers and add more consistency cards. If you're running 5 hammers (3 crush 2 enhance) + 2 absol you're going to have a tough time getting darkrai out fast enough. 2 Enhanced handles pz box just fine, and the absol handles everything else that you would usually use hammers against (BBP excluded).
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

Quad kyurem - quad deoxys runs 4-8 water,0-4 prisms, 4 plasma since its focus is on kyurem. Deoxys is basically relegated to a support role or a once-in-a-blue-moon attacker. You will be surprised that this deck does go toe to toe with Speed Darkrai especially if it doesn't have crushing hammers. I thought it would be an underwhelming deck but it is efficient. So keep an eye on this deck and play test against it if I were you. If anyone wants the build a japanese list of this deck was leaked in hey trainer.

You can fit hammers and lasers in a deck but you'll need to have an outside of the box list. And yes you'll need to cut some stuff which you usually run as a 4 to a 3. You may even need to scrap some stuff to a zero in the list.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

Aggressiv said:
TuxedoBlack said:
My Supporters consist of:

3 - Bianca
1 - Colress (given the "anticipated" number of near-full to full benches, this draw card is "expected" to be quite helpful)
1 - Ghetsis (did have 2, but didn't like it. 1 seems right, but used only in particular situations)
4 - N
3 - PJ
2 - Skyla
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A quick question, why are you only running 3 of the best draw supporter in the format? Colress and ghetsis are sub-par (but workable) supports in darkrai, but 4 juni is a must to keep things going.
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I have a love-hate relationship with Professor Juniper. I've been in too many situations when I've had to play a PJ and discard too many valuable resources or not play a draw Supporter that turn. So, I've mitigated that risk by playing only 3 PJs. This seems to work quite well for me.

Aggressiv said:
In the testing that I've done 2 enhanced hammers handles plasma box pretty well, even the ones that run 1-2 basic energy. The main reason darkrai does so well against TDK isn't because it can keep denying energy though, it's good vs. TDK because all it's ex's are the magic 170, which makes it possible for darkrai to do a 4 prize turn. IMO, you should take out hammers and add more consistency cards. If you're running 5 hammers (3 crush 2 enhance) + 2 absol you're going to have a tough time getting darkrai out fast enough. 2 Enhanced handles pz box just fine, and the absol handles everything else that you would usually use hammers against (BBP excluded).
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Excellent points! Friends and I have reached the same conclusion too regarding Crushing Hammers after 2 weekends of playtesting.
 
RE: Darkrai EX / Sableye / Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

@Aggresiv you have to enable receipt of pms for me to respond to your pm.

Is Ghetsis really worth the space? How many cards do you usually get with ghetsis?
 
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