(1) Dragon-type Rayquaza, Salamence, and Haxorus from 'Dragon Selection' Revealed! [1/5]

@signofzeta:
What are you talking about dude? It seems to me that you have no ideia of what you're talking about... First, only the theme decks released with the main sets are based around types... and they suck. Competitive decks are not focused on types. That is probably one of the 1st steps to lose. You choose one pokémon or a combo and resolve the deck around it like DNA said. Just because you have various pokémon types in a competitive deck, it doesn't mean they will all attack and that you need the respective type of energy for all of them... You should probably go read some articles about making competitive decks and then comeback here...
Second, the basic energy thing... Nowadays, the number of sets which have basic energy cards is low and even then, you usually only get 1 energy in a pack and it comes in the place of one common card, so it doesn't really change much what you get and certainly don't get ripped off because of that...
 
Dangit, they are all terrible. Salamence's ability MIGHT be fun to mess with, but I don't think he will get into any competetive deck.
 
signofzeta said:
I kind of want to settle on 8, because it seems like a nice number, since there are 8 gym badges, 4 elite 4's, 4 sets per year, and 16 other pokemon types in the video game, mot counting normal. Making 9 basic energy types just doesn't feel right, since it isn't a multiple of 4. To be honest, it would have been better if Metal energy was Air energy, which incorporates flying types, while metal energy went with fighting, but I don't really care. It seems that the pokemon type in the TCG is really the color of the skin of the pokemon. I mean, find me a water type pokemon card, that isn't a shiny version, that has red skin in the majority of it's body? I didn't think so, which was why poison went from green grass to purple psychic.
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Magikarp says hi.
 
signofzeta said:
The point I was trying to make with dragon types is to make it as common as Magic's gold framed multicolor cards, or Yugioh's xyz monsters, that either have harsher summoning requirements, or harsher attack requirements. Adding basic dragon energy would mean that any Joe Q Public could use that card, and that defeats the purpose of making the dragons special. The reason why dragons have their own type now is that they probably want to make the dragons special. In the current way, when dragons are normal, basically it means anybody could use it easily, and that it can be used in any deck. I think they want to make it so that dragons are more effective in a deck that use more and more different types, which is why they have 2 different energy requirements.

From your exmaples from before, did those decks have energy cards of those types? I looked at the world champ 2001 the truth deck, and the front of the box only shows fire and fighting.
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O_O Please let that be a typo....

Salamance AR

Rayquaza C Lv. X

Salamance SF

Rayquaza LA

Salamance SW

Altaria PK

Dual types in an attack for dragons is not a new concept...would you like me to continue? They haven't done it in a while I must say but it's still a concept that has been around for a long time...
 
signofzeta said:
The point I was trying to make with dragon types is to make it as common as Magic's gold framed multicolor cards, or Yugioh's xyz monsters, that either have harsher summoning requirements, or harsher attack requirements.
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...most of Yugioh's Xyz monsters don't have harsh summoning requirements. Anything rank 2 can be gotten out with Venus, anything rank 3 can be gotten out with Tour Guide, and anything rank 4 can be gotten out with Rabbit. You might be thinking of Synchro monsters...as time went on, they became harder and harder to summon, as "generic" ones weren't released as often.
 
signofzeta said:
I mean, find me a water type pokemon card, that isn't a shiny version, that has red skin in the majority of it's body? I didn't think so, which was why poison went from green grass to purple psychic.
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Can't forget Octillery. And Krabby. And Kingler. And Corphish and Crawdaunt. Magikarp was already mentioned, but that's more of an oragneish...

signofzeta said:
Ok then, make a deck that has all 8 types of pokemon in it, and of course base it off one particluar pokemon, and expect to win. You can't.
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Not all 8 types but based on one Pokemon, plus it was printed as a world championship deck: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Eeveelutions_%28TCG%29
 
What exactly are they trying to accomplish with this new type? Dragon does normal damage to everything non-Dragon, and Rayquaza and Salamence (and I'm guessing other flying dragons) don't even have an edge on Fighting types.
 
More money. Dragons are known as the strongest Pokemon, whether its true or not, and creating a set full of these wonderful, powerful, Pokemon is going to sell like wildfire, or at least Pokemon hopes so.
 
signofzeta said:
I kind of want to settle on 8, because it seems like a nice number, since there are 8 gym badges, 4 elite 4's, 4 sets per year, and 16 other pokemon types in the video game, mot counting normal. Making 9 basic energy types just doesn't feel right, since it isn't a multiple of 4. To be honest, it would have been better if Metal energy was Air energy, which incorporates flying types, while metal energy went with fighting, but I don't really care. It seems that the pokemon type in the TCG is really the color of the skin of the pokemon. I mean, find me a water type pokemon card, that isn't a shiny version, that has red skin in the majority of it's body? I didn't think so, which was why poison went from green grass to purple psychic.

Also look as the Dragon Selection Salamence. Why do you think his energy requirements for one of his attacks is fire and water? I'm not saying that this is true in all cases, but it seems that it is mostly true.

I'm not saying that Dragon represents the rainbow, more like, colorless should represent the OR aspect, that is, you can use any energy you want, and Dragons should represent the AND aspect, where you must use certain combinations of energy. That way, it makes it so that the dragon isn't a common sight in the game, and it makes it harder to achieve certain attacks, although, from what I saw, the attacks are pretty weak.

When I open packs, I want to go, WOW A DRAGON, rather than, pfft, a dragon. Making a basic energy for them would mean that they would start to join the crew of the other 8 types that have basic energies, and that would make them feel more common, and less special. That would also make them lose it's wow factor.
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I get it. to each his own, then. :)

Ophie said:
The cards actually have a white or pale gray design on them. The other colors are there, but they're very faded, to show that they can accept any type of Energy but don't really care either way what types they are. This background is a lot lighter and more muted than any of the rainbow-type Energy cards, which tend to be vivid and against black backgrounds.
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I know, but you get the point.
 
If TPC really are nerfing the Dragon-type cards in Dragon Selection just so they can introduce a basic Dragon-type energy into Dragon Blade / Dragon Blast, in my opinion, that would be a really stupid move. I'm all for the Dragon-energy being a special energy card that when attached to a dragon-type, provides 2 different energy types.

I like the comparisons to Magic's Gold cards though...especially as y'know, the dragon-types are a kind of manky brown-gold.
 
Dark Void said:
More money.
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That's funny, because I was initially going to put "apart from having high sales, what's the point of this set..." But I guess for most major corporations, making a profit is the #1 goal.
 
Sure. For minor corporations too. And small businesses. And local businesses. Money is the life force of all businesses. Any business that puts art above money goes belly-up. Or at least leeches upon something more successful, like Spümcø and Ren and Stimpy.

DNA said:
I liked the React Energy gimmick as well - the problem with it was, as you stated, it only stuck around for one set. If it stuck around for a little while longer it would have been more interesting.
What I meant earlier was that I was hoping that Dragon Energy won't become like React and be like a one-time-only gimmick., or at least not act in the fact that certain attacks will do different things based on the Dragon Energy.
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I have to wonder if the card designers wanted the sets to be more like Magic. In Magic, they introduce a new game mechanic for 1 to 4 sets, then push it to the background for the next one that comes around. The idea is to tell a story about some arriving new force that later gets integrated into the Magic universe. I definitely felt that with the Delta Species gimmick during the latter half of the 3rd generation--right down to the sets, when viewed in order, roughly telling a story about the city of Holon and its...tampering with the local Pokémon or something.

Magic also tends to precede a major story with a minor one that's typically unrelated. My guess is that this set and React Energy (and Celebi) was meant to be a minor story.

Of course, what works in Magic doesn't necessarily work in the Pokémon TCG, since the Pokémon TCG uses a different set rotation system. These game mechanics, if they catch on, can continue to be played for a while. Thus, the card designers continue to give them a small amount of support. In Pokémon, after 2 to 3 years, the whole SET gets rotated out and suddenly, the cards with a certain gimmick have vanished entirely from official play. The card designers for Pokémon have set rotation in mind and stop supporting the cards with these older game mechanics. (And then there's Team Rocket's Persian EX.)

PsychedelicBreakfast said:
What exactly are they trying to accomplish with this new type? Dragon does normal damage to everything non-Dragon, and Rayquaza and Salamence (and I'm guessing other flying dragons) don't even have an edge on Fighting types.
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Sure, that's how it goes in the video games as well, at least in general. Dragon attacks in the video games do regular damage to every type except Dragon, where it's super-effective, and Steel, where it's not very effective.

As for the traditonal resistance to Fighting Pokémon in the TCG, I can't explain that with Rayquaza and Salamence. My best guess is that they're planning on splitting up the Fighting type in the near future as well, considering that it, alog with Psychic, represent 3 types, and there are more combined Fighting, Rock, and Ground Pokémon than combined Psychic, Ghost, and Poison Pokémon.
 
RE: (1) Dragon-type Rayquaza, Salamence, and Haxorus from 'Dragon Selection' Revealed

D.N.A said:
I was under the impression they were playing BW on.
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I don't think so. They do have a lot more BW-on cards then us, but they're still obliged to play the current Worlds format. At least that's what I would think, otherwise they would be at a bit of a disadvantage at Worlds (having not played the format and all).

I do think they have BW-on tournaments, but all the big ones are probably HS-on.
 
I think it's really lame how the dragon don't have their own basic energy. Haxorus' 2nd attack could be used with Victini, but I still don't like how Haxorus needs a ground energy {F} to use it. It's also very strange how Salemance and Rayquaza have the same attack. Dragon Pulse makes you discardthe top 2 cards of YOUR deck for 1 {L} energy but only benefits you by dealing 40 damage. :(
 
I really don't think these dragons are that good. Rayquaza is fine for "donking"; however, by the time this set will be released in America, we will have EX Pokemon battling in full force and "donking" might not be as prevalent as it is today.

Salamence , on the on the other hand, has a fantastic ability against the right deck, but a large attack cost and mediocre damage output puts Salamence in most decks that work well with Trainer/Item locking variants rather than just using Salamance as the only attacker.

Haxorus is the weakest of the three. Haxorus attacks are really unreasonable for its Energy requirements.

If this is a preview of the set most dragon enthusiasts were really looking forward to because dragons in general are just plain cool, then they will surely be disappointed.
 
Tango said:
Seems like Salamance would work well with Weavile and Sharpedo.
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I'm gonna have to play around with the Salamance idea...it's interesting. By the time we get it I'm sure Weavile and Sharpedo will be rotated out :/
 
superman said:
If this is a preview of the set most dragon enthusiasts were really looking forward to because dragons in general are just plain cool, then they will surely be disappointed.
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The kids will still love it, as it is still the TCG's primary audience. (The collectors would love it too, but more on that later as it's not the primary audience. Except collectors who are kids.)

We're still too early in the generation. TCPi's marketing strategy (or is it Nintendo that does the marketing?) is to sell to the kids who get excited that their favorite newest-generation Pokémon have cards for them. Then, they release cards that do bigger things or weirder things (Dragon-type, in this case), and the fans of those Pokémon will eat them up. It's late into a generation, when the novelty has worn off, that they will sell primarily to competitive players.

We're in that middle transitional period--there is now a card for every Pokémon (besides the secret ones like Meloetta), so what we're seeing here is a logical next step. Look for people, not just kids, who buy the Pokémon TCG and only collect or don't play competitively. They LOVE cards like these. New look for the cards, big numbers printed all over them, and featuring a popular type of Pokémon.
 
Ophie said:
The kids will still love it, as it is still the TCG's primary audience. (The collectors would love it too, but more on that later as it's not the primary audience. Except collectors who are kids.)

We're still too early in the generation. TCPi's marketing strategy (or is it Nintendo that does the marketing?) is to sell to the kids who get excited that their favorite newest-generation Pokémon have cards for them. Then, they release cards that do bigger things or weirder things (Dragon-type, in this case), and the fans of those Pokémon will eat them up. It's late into a generation, when the novelty has worn off, that they will sell primarily to competitive players.

We're in that middle transitional period--there is now a card for every Pokémon (besides the secret ones like Meloetta), so what we're seeing here is a logical next step. Look for people, not just kids, who buy the Pokémon TCG and only collect or don't play competitively. They LOVE cards like these. New look for the cards, big numbers printed all over them, and featuring a popular type of Pokémon.
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Ehhhhhhh we have been starting to get some really good sets. DR is actually a pretty good set so we are heading into the period of ground breaking sets...
 
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