(1) Dragon-type Rayquaza, Salamence, and Haxorus from 'Dragon Selection' Revealed! [1/5]

[DNA]

Decks are based off types and that is fact.

No; they're based off specific Pokemon. Get it right.

Type is a factor, yes, but that is not the basis of a deck.

 

[catutie]

pfft, yeah, so you are saying that since decks aren't based off types, that is, the color of the card frame, that it means everybody's deck has cards in thier deck from all the colors of the rainbow. I'd like to see how your deck isn't based off type, and I better see at least one pokemon of each type in your deck.

Decks are based off types and that is fact. Why do you think people make fire fighting, or grass lightning decks? By making basic dragon energy, you are essentially adding another common type, and thus making it harder to pull a pokemon card of a certain type from a booster pack. If you say buy singles or trade, mind as well not have the cards packaged in boosters and just ship them in bulk to card stores just so people could buy singles.

Notice I never mentioned anything about being harder to pull a certain energy card? I think you are making up a response without fully reading what I have to say. I will say it again. Making basic dragon energy would mean that the dragon type would just be the ninth official common type. Making only special energies would mean that dragon types are more uncommon than they already are. It is also stupid that when you crack a booster, and there is no certain card of one type, it would be a wasted $4. Adding another type, that is as common as the other 8 types, would make it even worse. If dragons had attacks that used at least 2 of the existing 8 energies, the attack would be harder to use, and the fact of the matter is, dragons as a whole won't be as dominating, and like in the games, dragons should be a rare sight.

Ok, if trading for energies is the best way to go, then are you going to pay for my shipping and insurance? I didn't think so. The fact of the matter is, some places do not have a thriving pokemon community. The fact that you are getting even more basic energies doesn't matter. There is a thing called garbage, or donation. There are others out there who can't even obtain any basic energy other than from theme decks, and even then, it makes it a rip off and harder to obtain certain types, so yes, energy is hard to obtain when there isn't a thriving pokemon community around you, so don't go saying that just because you can get that many energy cards, that everybody could do it. Last time I checked, in the entire city I live in, none of the hobby stores sell pokemon singles, and a lot of players play Magic and Yugioh.

Lol it's funny because the deck that placed second at worlds had at least 6 types xD. Lets just look at a basic deck...ummmmm lets just take Magenboar

Emboar = Fire

Magnezone = Electric

Shuckle = Fighting

Cleffa = Normal

That is 4 types right there....and it's a very successful deck....sorry but you can't just say "OH THIS GUY IS GRASS AND THIS GUY IS ELECTRIC WELP....MAKE A DECK"

Also...as I said it would be in a set...so it's not like all the sets are jumbled together. You get the set that you need and maybe dragon energies are in that set...along with what you need. That doesn't mean it will be harder to pull what you need. Each booster is a game of luck anyway so it's not like you can get pack pulling down to a science anyway...well unless you have a box but that is a different story. You saying that it will be harder to pull what you want is pointless...because you never know what you will pull...so they make a 98 card set and you are trying to get 1 card out of it...you have the same chance of getting that card as any other card in the set. I'm not gonna do the math with all the commons and uncommons and all that because I simply don't care enough to do such a thing...

 

[Ophie]

I'm hoping they don't go the way of the React Energy to add some effect if React is attached and if the attack has some bonus React-esque effect. That gimmick failed... whereas Rainbow energy variants have been relatively successful, even if they have gone by several names (Rainbow, Double Rainbow, Miracle, Prism... etc).

I found React Energy to be incredibly fun. I was somewhat disappointed to see that it only stuck around for one set.

Sorry, I typed that when my head was hurting. But you've definetly got it. I didn't include Swablu+Altaria in my list because of the whole "pure dragon" thing. (I know that Swablu isn't a Dragon.) On top of that, Altaria (and Kingdra for others) don't really "look" like dragons. That's why I didn't include them in my list. I'm really sorry if I confused anybody!

If you're referring to Pokémon who are solely Dragon-type, the only ones I can think of at the moment are Dratini, Dragonair, Bagon, Shelgon, Axew, Fraxure, Haxorus, Druddigon, and Arceus holding a Draco Plate. That won't even fill up half the set, and two of the evolution lines are unfinished.

But if you see colorless for an attack cost, you can use any energy. And why colorless pokemon have a rainbow design on the cards; they pretty much are multienergy already. That's kind of the concept. Dragon, though wouldn't mean "rainbow". Colorless IS that already. Dragon is just another type.

The cards actually have a white or pale gray design on them. The other colors are there, but they're very faded, to show that they can accept any type of Energy but don't really care either way what types they are. This background is a lot lighter and more muted than any of the rainbow-type Energy cards, which tend to be vivid and against black backgrounds.

 

[DNA]

I found React Energy to be incredibly fun. I was somewhat disappointed to see that it only stuck around for one set.

I liked the React Energy gimmick as well - the problem with it was, as you stated, it only stuck around for one set. If it stuck around for a little while longer it would have been more interesting.
What I meant earlier was that I was hoping that Dragon Energy won't become like React and be like a one-time-only gimmick., or at least not act in the fact that certain attacks will do different things based on the Dragon Energy.

To be honest, I'm hoping Dragon Energy will be exclusively Special, at least for now, and provide a special effect while on a Dragon-type, like Dark or Metal has. I'm personally vouching for it becoming a Rainbow when attached to a Dragon (maybe even Double Rainbow), but we'll see.

 

[signofzeta]

No; they're based off specific Pokemon. Get it right.

Type is a factor, yes, but that is not the basis of a deck.

Ok then, make a deck that has all 8 types of pokemon in it, and of course base it off one particluar pokemon, and expect to win. You can't. So if you want to make a deck based off Reshiram, and Zekrom, let's say those are your 2 main pokemon, and you didn't pull any fire or lightning type pokemon in a pack to support Reshiram and Zekrom, it would be a rip off, especially when some people live in communities where Pokemon TCG isn't a big hit. Making dragon types so common, and yes, having basic dragon energies would signify that the type would be as common as the others, would make it harder to pull the certain type of card that you want. It is also fact that a lot of cards of a certain type requires that kind of energy to be used in its optimal state, although there are exceptions such as Karrablast who is grass type but doesn't need grass energy.

You basically have to fill up your deck to 60 cards, and it isn't like you are going to add the full spectrum of types into your reshiram and zekrom deck.

A player can establish a type first, and then establish any pokemon they want as long as it is that type. A player can establish a pokemon, but too bad, the type of deck you have must be the same type as that pokemon, so if you are basing your deck off a specific pokemon, you are already automatically basing your deck off a certain type.

The fact of the matter is, when dragon becomes a common type, rather than an uncommon type, and yes, a type having basic energy does mean that the type is a common type, it means it would be harder to build a deck with a certain type, especially in sealed. When this happens, people would start making 4 or 5 type decks, and it doesn't matter what pokemon they base their decks upon. And when that happens, it is harder to draw the correct energy card to power up the moves of a certain pokemon.

I haven't seen any deck in the internet where a deck has a fire type as the champion pokemon, and the rest of the deck consisted of no fire or colorless types.

The fact of the matter is, I want dragon energy to be special and always special. Like in the games, the dragon type is harder to catch, and is a rarer sight than the other types. To reflect this, dragon types should be harder to find in boosters, and their attacks should be harder to use. As such, the current method of using 2 energy of a different type is a good way, or using special energy, which you can only have 4 of, is another good way to achieve this. Having basic energy makes the type more common, and it's like finding a dragon type in the video game every step you take in every area of the map.

I am also thinking that the developers want the dragon type to be an uncommon sight in the TCG. Making basic dragon energy would mean anybody could use that type, and it would lose it's property that makes it so special.

In Magic, it is awesome to pull an artifact card, since they aren't as common, but pull one from the Mirrodin set, you would go blah, since they are everywhere.

Likewise, the gold framed multicolor cards in magic are also special, since most sets only have like around 5 out of 250ish cards that are multicolor, so pulilng one out of a pack would be a wow factor. Making the entire set gold framed multicolor, like in Alara reborn, would make players go meh.

Same thing goes for Ritual, Fusion, Synchro, and xyz monsters in Yugioh.

 

[DNA]

Ok then, make a deck that has all 8 types of pokemon in it, and of course base it off one particluar pokemon, and expect to win. You can't.

Thanks for missing the point; it really helps.

When considering a deck, you first decide what your main focal Pokemon (usually singular, sometimes plural) will be, and then once you do that, build the deck around that, looking at the Pokemon cards themselves to see what goes well with them.

An example: My Gigas build utilizes the following types of Pokemon: {W}{F}{M}{P}{C} . Granted, Gigas himself takes 3 types of energy to attack, but that's beside the point - plus it doesn't explain why the Psychic types are there. He is just run with cards that go well with him. SP decks are even more varied, going as far as {L}{F}{C}{P}{R} and occasionally seen are {G}{W}{D}{M} . See? All 9 types accounted for. And as mentioned before, The Truth contains {L}{W}{R}{F}{C}{G}{P}, and not all of those are doing attacking - Reuniclus and Vileplume are there solely for the effects they provide.

It's like the DP-on and MD-on formats - Claydol, and later the pixies, were staples in pretty much EVERY deck. Type doesn't usually mean a whole lot when considering what to put in a deck.

 

[signofzeta]

Thanks for missing the point; it really helps.

When considering a deck, you first decide what your main focal Pokemon (usually singular, sometimes plural) will be, and then once you do that, build the deck around that, looking at the Pokemon cards themselves to see what goes well with them.

An example: My Gigas build utilizes the following types of Pokemon: {W}{F}{M}{P}{C} . Granted, Gigas himself takes 3 types of energy to attack, but that's beside the point - plus it doesn't explain why the Psychic types are there. He is just run with cards that go well with him. SP decks are even more varied, going as far as {L}{F}{C}{P}{R} and occasionally seen are {G}{W}{D}{M} . See? All 9 types accounted for. And as mentioned before, The Truth contains {L}{W}{R}{F}{C}{G}{P}, and not all of those are doing attacking - Reuniclus and Vileplume are there solely for the effects they provide.

It's like the DP-on and MD-on formats - Claydol, and later the pixies, were staples in pretty much EVERY deck. Type doesn't usually mean a whole lot when considering what to put in a deck.

so how is the correct kind of energy drawn? You basically need energy searches to get the correct stuff, and even then, you aren't guaranteed to draw it when the time comes.

Is a 4 and above type deck a common sight, or are your examples only an isolated case, where one guy out of many has a 4 or above type deck, and just happens to win just because he got lucky and drew the right cards?

 

[DNA]

Cyrus' Conspiracy and Roseanne's Research.

Nowadays those cards are out of rotation, so granted, people are running less varied types of Energy now, due to the lack of reliable search available. (This might change with Next Destinies, when we are getting Cilan - a supporter that searches your deck for 3 Basic Energy cards.) So right now in the current format, running a deck with 8 kinds of Energy would, yes, be impractical. That's why most decks nowadays are either mono-type or dual-type (and occasionally triple-type), in respect to attackers. (Techs are not included in my calculation.)

The exact cards and fashion that we build our decks changes with the format we are in, and what Trainer cards we have available to us. Times change, and we must adapt.

I...think we're done here on the subject? ...unless you have something more to say.

 

[TacoTurtle]

RE: (1) Dragon-type Rayquaza, Salamence, and Haxorus from 'Dragon Selection' Revealed

Yes, but Conkeldurr and Gigalith had just, only one set earlier, had their pre evolutions made into cards. They were still playable.

There is no Swablu card in rotation (nor Seadra/Horsea) in Japan, therefore Altaria and Kingdra cards would be completely redundant until the release of another set.

Is the entire HS block now banned in Japan? If it is this makes sense, but if they are still playing HS-on (which I think they are, seeing how it is the official format right now and the format for Worlds) then they have both Swablu from Triumphant and Horsea/Seadra from Unleashed.

 

[signofzeta]

Cyrus' Conspiracy and Roseanne's Research.

Nowadays those cards are out of rotation, so granted, people are running less varied types of Energy now, due to the lack of reliable search available. (This might change with Next Destinies, when we are getting Cilan - a supporter that searches your deck for 3 Basic Energy cards.) So right now in the current format, running a deck with 8 kinds of Energy would, yes, be impractical. That's why most decks nowadays are either mono-type or dual-type (and occasionally triple-type), in respect to attackers. (Techs are not included in my calculation.)

The exact cards and fashion that we build our decks changes with the format we are in, and what Trainer cards we have available to us. Times change, and we must adapt.

I...think we're done here on the subject? ...unless you have something more to say.

The point I was trying to make with dragon types is to make it as common as Magic's gold framed multicolor cards, or Yugioh's xyz monsters, that either have harsher summoning requirements, or harsher attack requirements. Adding basic dragon energy would mean that any Joe Q Public could use that card, and that defeats the purpose of making the dragons special. The reason why dragons have their own type now is that they probably want to make the dragons special. In the current way, when dragons are normal, basically it means anybody could use it easily, and that it can be used in any deck. I think they want to make it so that dragons are more effective in a deck that use more and more different types, which is why they have 2 different energy requirements.

From your exmaples from before, did those decks have energy cards of those types? I looked at the world champ 2001 the truth deck, and the front of the box only shows fire and fighting.

 

[DNA]

That definitely makes sense. The different energy requirements will make them a bit more powerful as a result, because the energy will be a bit trickier to get.
That's why I'm hoping any Dragon Energy that gets released will be Special and have an effect when attached to a Dragon. But that's just me.

 

[D.N.A]

RE: (1) Dragon-type Rayquaza, Salamence, and Haxorus from 'Dragon Selection' Revealed

Is the entire HS block now banned in Japan? If it is this makes sense, but if they are still playing HS-on (which I think they are, seeing how it is the official format right now and the format for Worlds) then they have both Swablu from Triumphant and Horsea/Seadra from Unleashed.

I was under the impression they were playing BW on.

 

[signofzeta]

That definitely makes sense. The different energy requirements will make them a bit more powerful as a result, because the energy will be a bit trickier to get.
That's why I'm hoping any Dragon Energy that gets released will be Special and have an effect when attached to a Dragon. But that's just me.

That's exactly the way I want it. Multi energy requirements, and special dragon energy to boost the power of the attack.

I say no to basic dragon energy, as it makes the dragon as lowly as the common grass type. Dragons are supposed to be fierce, and they should be rare, and the requirements to use them should be a lot harder. Adding basic dragon energy would make them just as easy as using a grass type for example. Also it should be noted that dragon type gym leaders in the game are always the 8th gym leader, to signify it's power. Adding basic dragon energy would signify they are wimps, and I am talking in terms of gameplay perspective. So I say NO to basic dragon energy.

Some may say, well you can still have basic dragon energy and make the dragons as powerful as ever, well I reply that it would destroy the balance of the game, and since anybody can successfuly fulfill the attack requirements of any dragon card just so long as they have basic dragon energy, then everybody would start using it, so the only way for basic dragon energy to exist is to make the attacks weak.

In magic, there is this ridiculous card in magic, that it seems that it is so powerful that it is unbalanced. Usually, 5 mana to cast a huge 8/8 creature is insane, but the summoning requirements is one white mana, one blue mana, one black mana, one red mana, and one green mana. It would take many turns to draw one plains, one island, one swamp, one mountain, and one forest to play such a card. The card is an uncommon card, and not a rare one.

I am thinking the same should be said for dragon types. I mentioned before, the dragon type should work in a similar fashion as the gold framed multicolor cards in magic. Neither of them have their own basic energy or basic land associated with it, and both of them use more than one of the existing energies to summon or power up an attack.

 

[DNA]

or you could play special land cards, or better yet, play that red+blue card (which I forgot the name of) that exiles a card from your deck and plays it 4 turns later at no cost

I know when {D} and {M} first came out they were quite powerful - Sneasel in particular - and they did not have any Basic Energy cards to their name for years. This, consequently, made them very tricky to play. Perhaps Dragons will be the same way? In any case, if they do ever end up making Basic Dragon Energy...not yet. Please, not yet. Not for a long time.

 

[signofzeta]

or you could play special land cards, or better yet, play that red+blue card (which I forgot the name of) that exiles a card from your deck and plays it 4 turns later at no cost

I know when {D} and {M} first came out they were quite powerful - Sneasel in particular - and they did not have any Basic Energy cards to their name for years. This, consequently, made them very tricky to play. Perhaps Dragons will be the same way? In any case, if they do ever end up making Basic Dragon Energy...not yet. Please, not yet. Not for a long time.

basically, they would have to make dragons into wimps before they have basic dragon energy. Did you have the feeling that darkness and metal pokemon has become wimps since the days before Diamond and Pearl?

I am also thinking that before Dragon Selection, dragons were colorless and as such, can use whatever energy they wanted, and as such, to balance the game, they have to make dragons extremely rare, or have crappy attacks. So what I think they did is that they made it so that dragons have a fixed requirement, that is, multi energy type requirement, so that they can make dragons not as rare, and at the same time, harder to use. So, rather than the colorless "this or this or this", dragons now have "this and this and this" for the energy requirements.

I also think that the 8 basic energy types we see now is going to be the only 8 we will ever see. I am thinking that special dragon energy could also do something like, "this energy counts as any 2 of the 8 energy types", so that you can use one dragon energy to pay for the cost of {F}{W} for example. Of course these kinds of cards should be rare.

I also think that while colorless is the lowly peon, the dragon should be the one that overlooks the other types, so as such, has the power to generate any of the 8 energy types that they do so choose. So basically colorless energy could only work for colorless energy. The 8 basic energies can work with it's own type and colorless, and dragon type can work with any of the 8 energy types. So I can use dragon energy to powerup a move that requires one {D}{M}.

To also make it so that special dragon energy goes with dragon pokemon, they could give the dragon pokemon a boon if they have special dragon energy attached, but do something bad to any other type, considering how the special dragon energy I propose can power up the attacks of any energy requirement.

So what I say is that special dragon energy should be like rainbow energy, with the exception that it gives 2 of any different type rather than one, that gives a boon to dragon type pokemon and gives a penalty to non-dragons.

Another way to do this is that special dragon energy can power up any 2 energy requirements, as long as the 2 are different, but be unable to powerup colorless energy requirements.

 

[DNA]

Not really.

Then again, I wasn't around for Hoenn at all, so my opinion doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

[signofzeta]

Not really.

Then again, I wasn't around for Hoenn at all, so my opinion doesn't mean a whole lot.

so what do you think of the idea that a special dragon energy can power up any 2 of the energy requirements, but not the same 2, so that it could power up {G}{R} but not {R}{R}, and also not be able to power up colorless, so it can't be used to power up {G}{C}.

So this means that although dragon types have stuff like {R}{W}{C}{C}, one special dragon energy already takes care of the {R}{W} portion.

Another example would be {R}{L}{L} where the dragon energy can be used to power up {R}{L}, but cannot be used to power up {L}{L}, so the requirement has to be one special dragon and one lightning, and not one special dragon and one fire.

 

[DNA]

I like that idea a lot. I'd definitely like to see that. It'd definitely be balanced enough, and not have things go totally out of control. Then again, I'm fine with Dragon just being a single Rainbow too, but we'll see.

 

[signofzeta]

I like that idea a lot. I'd definitely like to see that. It'd definitely be balanced enough, and not have things go totally out of control. Then again, I'm fine with Dragon just being a single Rainbow too, but we'll see.

I sort of made it so that special dragon energy gives 2 of any different kinds of energy so that it won't work on non dragons, who typically have attacks that only require one type of energy for example {L}{L}{C}, such that the dragon energy can't provide for {L}{L} because it needs to be one kind and a different kind, and it won't work on {L}{C}, since dragon energy won't provide for colorless. I also mentioned that all dragon types should have at least one attack that uses 2 different energy, and since only dragon types have this feature, dragon energy can only work with dragon types.

So if you have some dragon with energy requirement of {G}{R}{W}{L}{P}{F}{D}{M}, you only need to use 4 special dragon energy to power up that attack, but considering how you are only limited to 4 special energy, and getting all 4 in your hand is tough, it makes it even more interesting.

 

[Athena]

I like the double-energy-type idea, though it seems kind of complicated in practice, especially considering how much the game is still geared towards kids. I think a special Dragon energy would be more likely to be a special colourless that turns into a rainbow energy when attached to a Dragon pokemon, perhaps providing some other minor benefit, like the +10/-10 effect for the special Darkness and Metal energies.