Blastoise / Keldeo EX / Black Kyurem EX

RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

A friend of mine runs SS on his blastoise/keldeo deck and I told him several times that it's not really solid there. Computer Search or eventually Dowsing Machine seem like a much better option.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Honestly haven't seen any action out of the Keldeo 47 recently, but I haven't played many games at all with the deck as I have a lot of others that I like to play and I wasn't feeling for my build before. I played maybe 3 or so games with the old version before changing it to what I posted here (which I haven't had time to play with yet), and none of those games had decks where it would be useful to play down. No Sig's and no PlasmaKlang. So I can't really say how useful it is in the match-ups I intend to use it in... yet. It didn't HINDER me specifically though, since I didn't lose anything crucial by having it.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

I don't think Keldeo with Hydro Pump is worth the extra slot anymore. Blastoise gets the job done against your anti-EX friends already that there isn't really a point in running the non-EX Keldeo. Use that for a BKEX or something else.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Pokemon: 12
3 Keldeo EX
2 Black Kyurem EX (Black Ballista)
4-0-3 Blastoise

Trainers: 34
4 Professor Juniper
4 Skyla
2 N
2 Bianca
1 Cilan
1 Colress

4 Pokemon Catcher
4 Rare Candy
4 Energy Retrieval
3 Ultra Ball
2 Energy Search
1 Dowsing Machine

2 Battle City

Energy: 14
12 Water
2 Lightning

This is what I'm looking at now.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Battle City should be Tropical Beach. I'm not sure about the Ace-Spec between CS or DM, but I think CS is better solely because of its ability to search out Beach on T1.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

I'd run Tropical Beach for sure if I could. Too much of an investment for me, sadly.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

I'm just saying that it is a great cards in this deck. If you can't run it, don't run any stadiums at all and strengthen other lines.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Pokemon Center is what I've seen be a better replacement for Tropical Beach if you really can't get any.

Counter Stadiums are pretty nice to have in this deck if only to get rid of opposing Virbanks.

dmaster out.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

How would Centre not help the opponent a ton? Tropical Beach is good because it helps set up, it's a Stadium, and the opponent can't use it to its full capability most of the time.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Maybe because this deck (along with Rayquaza EX) doesn't really leave damage on the board?

When you're hitting for 200 during a game, healing 20 becomes very insignificant. Meanwhile, it helps Blastoise out a ton against Darkrai.

Obviously Tropical Beach is the best. Nowhere did I say it wasn't.

dmaster out.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

This is my take on what this deck should look like.

Pokemon(12-13):
4x Squirtle (Boundaries Crossed for no snipe damage obviously)
3x Blastoise
3x Keldeo EX
2x Black Kyurem EX (Plasma Storm obviously)
0-1x Moltres or Victini (If you want to include a Klink Klang counter)

Supporters(14):
4x Professor Juniper
3x N (Powerful early game draw but can be dead late game so I think 3 N is the right number; disruption isn't as important in this deck as it focuses on overpowering other deck archetypes.)
3x Colress (I find filling you bench is incredibly easy with this deck and would run 3 Colress as long as you have Tropical Beach in your build, however, if you are super afraid of starting the game with only Colress as your supporter than you could drop one for a Bianca.)
4x Skyla (If you run beach I think 4 Skyla is the way to go; grab what you need with Skyla and draw cards with beach)

Other Trainers(20):
3x Pokemon Catcher (You could go with 4 and drop a rare candy)
4x Ultra Ball (Searches for any Pokemon so I would max out on these for consistency.)
1x Level Ball (Nice to Skyla for to get an extra Squirtle out early game and not have to discard resources. Its really just a consistency card.)
1x Computer Search (Best Ace Spec for Blastoise in my opinion as the deck has enough power as long as it sets up and really just needs to be as consistent as possible. It searches the missing pieces of Blastoise like the rare candy or the Blastoise itself and Dowsing Machine cant do that.)
4x Rare Candy (You could go with 3 rare candies for an extra catcher)
4x Energy Retrieval (I believe 4 Energy Retrievals is a must if you are going to run Black Kyurem EX unlike the older builds)
2x Tropical Beach (Ideally you can afford this card as it almost makes this deck the powerhouse that it is. I would probably consider running another deck if you don't have at least 1 Tropical Beach.)
1x Max Potion (As a one of I like max potion better than super scoop up as it always works although you could cut consistency cards for 3-4 super scoop ups if you want the potential for huge plays over consistent healing)

Energy(13-14):
10-11x Basic Water Energy (10 if you run Moltres or Victini)
3x Basic Lightning Energy (Prism if you run Moltres or Victini)

I find that creating the right Blastoise list is all about balancing the early game set up with the late game power. You need high energy and draw late game and high search and draw early game. Juniper, N, Skyla, Tropical Beach, Ultra Ball, Level Ball, Rare Candy, and Computer Search are what you want early game. Juniper, Colress, Energy Retrieval, Catcher, Max Potion, Energies, and Computer Search are what you want late game. You want to find a balance between these cards. The only obvious choice I think is to play 4 Junipers and Computer Search as they are ALWAYS good to have in your hand. If anything I think it is more important to focus on setting up rather than tech for late game power as fully set up Blastoise overpowers every deck except fully set up Rayeels; the advantage being that Blastoise has the potential to set up faster. I see lots of lists running 15-16 energies along with 1-2 energy searches which is great late game but will likely kill you as you may never even get Blastoise out. Also I generally don't like Cilan very much as a draw supporter is likely to net you 3 or more energies in the late game anyway while Cilan can be a dead card in the set up stages.

This is just my take on Blastoise and would like to hear what people think.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

I disagree entirely with the 3 Colress. While filling your bench may be easy, you may not have the resources to fill your bench early in the game if your only supporter is a Colress. Sure, you have Beach, but that can't be relied on.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Blah said:
I disagree entirely with the 3 Colress. While filling your bench may be easy, you may not have the resources to fill your bench early in the game if your only supporter is a Colress. Sure, you have Beach, but that can't be relied on.
Click to expand...

In my testing with this deck I have never had any trouble with the 3 Colress. If you consider that you have 14 supporters, 2 Tropical Beaches, and 1 Computer Search that is 17 total cards that give you draw. Now take out 3 Colress and that gives you 14 total cards out of your deck that will give you good draw early game. When you consider the fact that some decks only run 13 supporters total having 14 cards in your deck for early game draw really isn't bad. Also, I run 4 Ultra Ball, 1 Level Ball, and Computer Search any of which can help fill your bench. That being said I did make a side note saying if you are super worried about starting with only Colress that you could drop one for a Bianca or even an N (I would favor the Bianca as late game N is usually worse than early game Colress).
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

The thing is that Bianca works perfectly fine and using it over Colress decreases the luck factor for the deck. While Colress may offer some awesome hand sizes at points in the game, it's unreliable, and having an inconsistent card that is literally only there to boost consistency is silly. If it works for you, then go to town, but in 40-50 games of testing with Rayeels, a deck that fills it's bench must faster than this one, I despised Colress even when running only two. While Tropical Beach helps solve the problem a bit, there is still going to be those moments when you only have a Colress and you're helpless for a good portion of the game.

If you assume that Colress is useless early game, that leaves you with 14 total draw cards. I've played decks with 16-17 and whiff all of them early game quite often. Maybe I'm just unlucky, or maybe I'm a freak for over-consistency, but I still stand by the fact that Supporters need to be reliable, and it isn't worth the risk to have a heavy Colress count when the deck functions perfectly fine with Bianca.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

What will this deck gain after Plasma Freeze?
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Headaches. Frozen City is gonna be reeeally annoying
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

Blah said:
The thing is that Bianca works perfectly fine and using it over Colress decreases the luck factor for the deck. While Colress may offer some awesome hand sizes at points in the game, it's unreliable, and having an inconsistent card that is literally only there to boost consistency is silly. If it works for you, then go to town, but in 40-50 games of testing with Rayeels, a deck that fills it's bench must faster than this one, I despised Colress even when running only two. While Tropical Beach helps solve the problem a bit, there is still going to be those moments when you only have a Colress and you're helpless for a good portion of the game.

If you assume that Colress is useless early game, that leaves you with 14 total draw cards. I've played decks with 16-17 and whiff all of them early game quite often. Maybe I'm just unlucky, or maybe I'm a freak for over-consistency, but I still stand by the fact that Supporters need to be reliable, and it isn't worth the risk to have a heavy Colress count when the deck functions perfectly fine with Bianca.
Click to expand...

But mid-game, Colress will surely give you atleast 8 cards, that is more then any other supporter we have. The more cards you draw, the bigger is the chance of you hitting cards you can use. Also early game you have a lot of "junk cards" in your deck which first will work in mid/late-game and you might sit with 6-8 cards in the early game, which you can't use yet but you don't want to discard with Juniper, this is where shuffeling back in and then draw 4 and hope for something for the next turn is waaaayyy better. Colress is an amazing card in this deck.
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

I really think that Colress is reeeeally strong in this deck, 2 at least should be played
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

You can play this deck without Beach. I did and got Top 16 at NE states. Would have made top cut but got donked by a Sableye...Anyways all you need is 4 N, Prof. J, Skyla, Ultra Ball, E. Retrieval. You can use 2 slots for two other supporters (help you later in game). I run one Bianca and one Colress. Used to run 2 Biancas but found myself discarding it more times than i used it. With this combo you can maximize your chances for a T1 Squirtle (If you dont get one) and a T2 Blastoise. I like to discard waters for the ultra balls since you can get them back later in the game. I used to have Computer Search but I found myself using it only around 2 games out of 10. It just depends on your style. You can also use those to supporter slots for counter-stadiums. You can use either Battle City or Pk Center. I also dont like using level ball because its situational. Its nice to have it early game but late game Id rather have something else. You want a card that will work throughout the match, which is why you need 4 Ultra balls. It gets you whatever pokemon you need no matter how far in the game you are. In the end if the above doesnt work, do NOT be afraid to Prof. J everything you have in your first turn, thats why you have 3 or 4 of every card!
 
RE: Keldeo EX / Blastoise (With and without Black Kyurem EX)

As a Stadium replacement for T-Beach, I think that Poké Center is way better than Battle City, as it turns the Darkrai/Stuff Match-up much more bearable, and you can definitely take more advantage of it than your opponent, probably
 
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