Concern with the Direction of the Game Thus Far (Again...)
- Thread starter Card Slinger J
- Start date
You don't want to quit the Pokemon TCG from a money standpoint? Let's consider that unless you sell cards back relatively early, the rotation system pretty much removes the older card's use (outside of collecting) and value. Quitting now and waiting for the format to look better in your opinion does not financially cost more, if as much, as continuing to play. If you have no reason to play, don't; you'd be wasting your own time otherwise.Card Slinger J said:
I did enjoy the SP format really. They had quite a bit of domination but even with the fact I would see some sort of SP deck every day at leagues/competitions, the format was fast and exciting, not to mention the deck building varieties were plenty.#1weavile said:
My reason to play the Pokemon TCG is still to have fun and at the moment most of my friends don't seem to be having fun with the game at all. It's hard to get a game going when most of your playgroup doesn't want to play as much or they are trying to take a break from the game itself.
Like I said before, I'm planning on taking a break from playing after the Pre-Release and such settle in and wait til the format improves. I don't want to quit a TCG because I think I'll regret it in the longrun, I'll talk more on this later I got to get to work right now.
Like I said before, I'm planning on taking a break from playing after the Pre-Release and such settle in and wait til the format improves. I don't want to quit a TCG because I think I'll regret it in the longrun, I'll talk more on this later I got to get to work right now.
ShadowDark said:
Thats correct. in the 09-10' season they had 30 card deck 3 prizes. Then when the 10'-11' season came by they rotated to HS-on and switched it up to a 40 card deck.
Card Slinger J said:
Well you're probably going to be waiting a long time them. Because from what I said earlier, from a base era player, this is the healthiest the format has been in a while. And with the Ex's scheduled to return, it means much more faster paced games due to the 2 prize rule.
You can play the same cards as everyone else, no one has an advantage in that way. If the game doesn't take skill anymore, then why are the same people doing well in tournaments every year?
The "SP" format was NOT bad at all. Everyone refused to get creative and they either played luxchomp/dialgachomp or just complained about them. I came up with a deck that countered SP's during states and regionals. I went 27-0 through those tournaments with a non-SP deck in a format that was full of luxchomp. That format was breakable, and google's deck at worlds showed us that the worlds format was breakable as well. If you just copy lists from the internet and don't think outside of the box, then the problem is you. Sure the format is a little flippy, but besides that, it takes a lot of skill. Games aren't "decided on a coin flip." Games can get to that point, but that situation may have been avoidable. The ending is not the entire game. Don't quit the game because people that didn't do well are complaining about it online, they are just making excuses.
The "SP" format was NOT bad at all. Everyone refused to get creative and they either played luxchomp/dialgachomp or just complained about them. I came up with a deck that countered SP's during states and regionals. I went 27-0 through those tournaments with a non-SP deck in a format that was full of luxchomp. That format was breakable, and google's deck at worlds showed us that the worlds format was breakable as well. If you just copy lists from the internet and don't think outside of the box, then the problem is you. Sure the format is a little flippy, but besides that, it takes a lot of skill. Games aren't "decided on a coin flip." Games can get to that point, but that situation may have been avoidable. The ending is not the entire game. Don't quit the game because people that didn't do well are complaining about it online, they are just making excuses.
For me,if SPs didn't exist,I don't know how I could have started playing the pokemon TCG in the first place,since my first decent deck involved Absol G Lv.X and Gallade 4 Lv.X.If I ever taught anyone how to play the TCG,the first deck I'd let them use to learn would be an SP deck,and they would learn things like evolution etc from whatever deck I was using.
Card Slinger J said:
Once we get the stuff from RC ALOT of possibilities open up. Victini will make many many many flip cards viable (Politoed swarm? AAAWWWWWW YEEEEAAAAHHHH. Vanilluxe lock? Heck yeah. Audino? Uh....sure....). We will get Archeops (Don't...just save your fingers the trouble of calling Archeops lame...). The good Legendary Trio (Archeops and the grass guy......that is my dream right now
). The format looks like crap right now because of the Yanmega domination and ZPS and Magnezone and and and and and...once Catcher hits the scene...it will be a little different. Techs will be none existent (ZPS...you die once that comes out...oh and MagneBoar...and MegaZone...). It will be interesting to see what sticks around (BlastZel, CinPluff, rogue as heck stuff).
Red Striker said:
SP's were quite difficult to play. Play well that it. And as a base era player that came back during the sp era, it was confusing to get used to. I mean a stage 2 as a basic?! Anyone that knows anything about pokemon would be confused at that point.
catutie said:Once we get the stuff from RC ALOT of possibilities open up. Victini will make many many many flip cards viable (Politoed swarm? AAAWWWWWW YEEEEAAAAHHHH. Vanilluxe lock? Heck yeah. Audino? Uh....sure....). We will get Archeops (Don't...just save your fingers the trouble of calling Archeops lame...). The good Legendary Trio (Archeops and the grass guy.....that is my dream right now
The format looks like crap right now because of the Yanmega domination and ZPS and Magnezone and and and and and...once Catcher hits the scene...it will be a little different. Techs will be none existent (ZPS...you die once that comes out...oh and MagneBoar...and MegaZone...). It will be interesting to see what sticks around (BlastZel, CinPluff, rogue as heck stuff).
ZPS is a very weak deck, so I don't understand that hype around it. If it doesn't get the donk, or win within the first few turns, it stands no chance. It has an etremely weak mid and late game. And lets take a look at all the decks on the scene currently. MegaZone,
TyRam, Reshiboar, MagneBoar, ZPS, googleBox, Mew Box, Donphan and Dragons, DonChamp. Ok, thats only a few of the decks, and that alone shows alot more variaty than there was the previous 2 seasons where all you would see was DialgaChomp, LuxChomp, Sablelock, Gyarados or Vilegar. Much healthier.
For the record, I agree that ZPS has Sunflora Weakness is bad.
As for the argument in the OP.
Everyone needs to take a chill pill over Catcher, seriously. Yeah, it can kill weak basics, but you get to use it too. It is a disruption card that you have to work to play around, which can easily be achieved by a seasoned player. It may make the game more difficult for newer players, but that's how things work, someone who is a better player more experienced player, should be able to utilize good cards, and win the game against a less experienced player. It adds more skill to the game in that manner, and it adds more skill because it eliminates a crucial coin flip. I welcome Catcher into our format, bring it on.
As for the argument in the OP.
This must be why Magneboar didn't win worlds... Oh wait.Card Slinger J said:
Everyone needs to take a chill pill over Catcher, seriously. Yeah, it can kill weak basics, but you get to use it too. It is a disruption card that you have to work to play around, which can easily be achieved by a seasoned player. It may make the game more difficult for newer players, but that's how things work, someone who is a better player more experienced player, should be able to utilize good cards, and win the game against a less experienced player. It adds more skill to the game in that manner, and it adds more skill because it eliminates a crucial coin flip. I welcome Catcher into our format, bring it on.
Vulpix Yolk said:
So in other words,I'm not the only one who welcomes Catcher into the format with open arms?It is a bit of a needed change in a way.I don't say that because I run a snipe deck,but because it gives younger players a chance to play with older cards,since Catche is the modern-day Gust of Wind(why couldn't they have made Catcher in SP era?That would have made a great SP-counter).As long as they don't remake a version of Flygon ex I'm OK with anything that gets released.
I think the issue isn't just that a lot of cards are bland and not interesting, but that the format is too slow. It's come down to Pokemon that can set up T2.
I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but I think that Claydol was good for the game. It helped super slow decks get a chance at surviving, and Stage 2s in general. The problem with Claydol wass that SPs came out later and really abused it. Had Claydol come out during or a little after the SPs, I'm certain that it would have had restrictions to prevent SP decks from using it, whereas letting regular decks have it keep up with the pace. Notice how much variety that time period had, there was a much larger deck pool then there is now. Admittedly, SPs were no fun to play against or with, but they just came at a time that didn't need them(the TCG was already flourishing before them).
I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but I think that Claydol was good for the game. It helped super slow decks get a chance at surviving, and Stage 2s in general. The problem with Claydol wass that SPs came out later and really abused it. Had Claydol come out during or a little after the SPs, I'm certain that it would have had restrictions to prevent SP decks from using it, whereas letting regular decks have it keep up with the pace. Notice how much variety that time period had, there was a much larger deck pool then there is now. Admittedly, SPs were no fun to play against or with, but they just came at a time that didn't need them(the TCG was already flourishing before them).
The thing about Claydol isn't exactly a speed issue. It was more of consistency; can you keep up with your opponent throughout the entire game? As long as you had a Claydol out there, you will have reliable drawpower that lets you cycle through the deck while removing unneeded cards. SPs have their own engine and could not only disable an opposable Claydol for a turn, Luxray GL LV.X had the option of essentially destroying a non-SP's Claydol engine. Silvestro's Luxdrill essentially abused that fact: use their own Claydol for setup, hamper the opponent's setup and recovery, and sweep/swarm. SP domination was even stronger without Claydol, in a sense, due to the fact that other decks no longer had the consistent setup/recover speed Claydol once provided.picklelicker129 said:
picklelicker129 said:
Lol a bigger deck pool back then? With SP around you have to be joking...there was
VileGar
Gyarados
LuxChomp
and that's pretty much it. I know I'm forgetting one...I just know I am but still that isn't as wide a variety as right now
ReshiPhlosion
MagneBoar
MegaZone
DonChamp
ZPS
BlastZel
RDL
MewBox
Stage 1's
Ya...that is WAY more diverse. You also have crazy rogue that you can slap in there...
People, stop complaining that cards were/are "too good." Everyone plays with the same cards. SP's were not impossible to beat/bad for the game at all. The only format where a deck was truly too good was the plox format, but once again, everyone could play plox.
You forgot dialgachomp in the SP format and KYJ in the current format.
You forgot dialgachomp in the SP format and KYJ in the current format.
catutie said:
The things about last format was that there was this weird thing people could do called building rogues, or at least tier two or three decks were more competitive. You could build lets say a Kingdra, and still do well, if you do anything creative this format, you will lose. There was a large pool of mediocre cards that could make excellent rogues, I played more rogue decks than meta decks last season. There are no mediocre cards this format, there are no rogues, and I don't want to hear about google, that is one deck, I played nothing even slightly rogue through 10 rounds at Nats, if anyone lost to a rogue at Nats or Worlds, please post.
Ok, now, now, now. I don't even like the format that much right now, but I think that's because the main strategy is "attack stuff." There's no (read: little) locking, no spread, etc. In a way it's interesting, because, as Vulpix Yolk pointed out to me the other day, everything is kinda like a toolbox. The other problem I see with today's format is that even though there are many viable decks, they all come from a very small pool of viable cards.
Last format (MD-on, pre-CoL), there were many many good decks, but the difference between say, Tier 2 and tier 1 was much more noticable than the format before it (DP-on). DP-on was my favorite format. Many people complained it was too static, as they do with any metagame, but really the only card that was found in every single deck (aside from SP, or did some people run Claydol in SP? God, I've forgotten) was Claydol. But the attackers, strategies, techs, etc. were very varied.
What needs to happen is that interesting cards need to be printed. Gimmicky, good cards. and staple cards that aren't T/S/S.
Last format (MD-on, pre-CoL), there were many many good decks, but the difference between say, Tier 2 and tier 1 was much more noticable than the format before it (DP-on). DP-on was my favorite format. Many people complained it was too static, as they do with any metagame, but really the only card that was found in every single deck (aside from SP, or did some people run Claydol in SP? God, I've forgotten) was Claydol. But the attackers, strategies, techs, etc. were very varied.
What needs to happen is that interesting cards need to be printed. Gimmicky, good cards. and staple cards that aren't T/S/S.
You can't discredit google's deck. You also can't say that the last format had more rogues than this one, because nats and worlds last year had 0 rogues that did well, while worlds this year had a rogue. No one expected the finals in worlds to be those two decks. And please STOP saying that the game does not take skill. The same people are winning every year, and it is not just a coincidence. Out of my 7 swiss rounds at nats (I had 2 byes) I played against 6 different decks. Please tell me how that is not varied.
Not discredit to google's deck, it was awesome that a rogue was taken so far into a major tournament. I just don't like the set pool right now, I like being able to win small tournaments like Battle Roads or Cities with rogues, like Nidoqueen, Luxray LA, Magnezone SF, cards that aren't meta, but have potential. What I am trying to say is that we need a larger set pool, or they need to stop printing terrible regular rares. Like seriously, what is the point of making this? Smaller set pools leave less room for creativity.
Also, out of my 10 rounds at Nats, I played 3 Magneboar, 2 Yanmega vairants and 3 Donphan variants, while last year, I played 10 rounds and didn't play against any deck twice.
Also, out of my 10 rounds at Nats, I played 3 Magneboar, 2 Yanmega vairants and 3 Donphan variants, while last year, I played 10 rounds and didn't play against any deck twice.
The problem is that PUSA/TPCi are printing terrible regular rares when we could be getting more playable rares that encourages deck creativity in this format. Yeah the current card pool isn't as massive as last format but that was because of an issue with Machamp SF keeping SP Pokemon in check and it did to some extent at least. Black/White: Emerging Powers isn't the best set but it will still sell quite a load of booster boxes just for Pokemon Catcher alone at least which will most likely go for as much If not double the amount Pokemon Collector is going for currently.
Another problem I'm noticing is regarding Sanctioned Matches like Battle Roads, Cities, Nationals, and Worlds. Here in the U.S. games aren't decided by best 2 out of 3 Swiss it's always one game per match Swiss style however in Europe they go by the best 2 out of 3 Swiss Rule which is what the Sanctioned Events in the U.S. should also do and If Japan isn't going by it they should as well. It makes for more enjoyment out of the game itself IMO. Why are we trying to end games faster when things need to slow down you know what I mean? Shortening matches doesn't help the overall growth of the Pokemon TCG.
Another problem I'm noticing is regarding Sanctioned Matches like Battle Roads, Cities, Nationals, and Worlds. Here in the U.S. games aren't decided by best 2 out of 3 Swiss it's always one game per match Swiss style however in Europe they go by the best 2 out of 3 Swiss Rule which is what the Sanctioned Events in the U.S. should also do and If Japan isn't going by it they should as well. It makes for more enjoyment out of the game itself IMO. Why are we trying to end games faster when things need to slow down you know what I mean? Shortening matches doesn't help the overall growth of the Pokemon TCG.