Counter That Pokemon! - Round 20

RE: Counter That Pokemon!

Bippa said:
And no one has mentioned Amoonguss.

I am dissapoint.
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I really doubt it can survive all those x5 Bullet Seeds and Stone Edges while it sleeps. Also I agree with Teapot those conditions are to harsh. If you asume Breloom will always go for the right move on the switch and will always hit 5 times with Bullet Seed as well as hit every Stone Edge you really don't have a viable counter in OU. Even my Celebi or Skarmory can be KOd if Breloom goes for the right combination of moves and hits all of them, Next time please give as SubSD Terrakion with Rock Gem so we can just post GG.

EDIT: lol I didn't see this page.

I will go for something standard this time:

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Donphan @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
-Stealth Rocks
-Earthquke
-Rapid Spin
-Ice Shard/Toxic

Nothing fancy here. Donphan has enough bulk and good typing to take everything Terrakion throws at it. Even with no Attack EVs Terrakion will lover its defense with CC which is the only attack that actually can hurt Donphan.

calcs:

13.3% - 15.9% Stone Edge
14.6% - 17.2% X-Scissor
32.3% - 38.3% Close Combat
10.2% - 12% Rock Slide BEWARE OF FLINCH HAX
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

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Slowbro @ Leftovers
Regenerator, Bold, 252 hp 252 def 4 spdef
- Scald
- Toxic
- Slack Off
- Light Screen

Slowbro has nothing to fear from Jolly Scarf Terrakion:

Detailed Result:
252 Atk Terrakion X-Scissor vs 252 HP/252 Def Slowbro (+Def) : 29.95% - 35.53%
4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

X-Scissor outdamages Stone Edge (160 BP vs 150 BP), so the only way Slowbro would be in trouble is if he ate a crit on the switch and a crit the next turn, too.

Meanwhile, Slowbro 2HKOes with Scald with a chance of OHKO if he comes in on Close Combat.

I almost tried putting Arbok up in here but even after Intimidate he gets two-shotted by Stone Edge ://////////// also I forgot it had to be viable in OU so a-welp
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Scizor@Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP / 252 ATK / 4 Speed
-Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Superpower
- Quick Attack

Scizor will survive the hit then KO with Bullet Punch.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

@ Teapot: Well, I myself adopted the harsh conditions for two reasons:

1) It wasn't specified just how favourable the conditions were. This is important on Breloom in particular as it is a highly luck based Pokemon. So, with nowhere to set the benchmark for luck, I opted for worst case scenario conditions (barring critical hits, but as Breloom is highly likely to get at least one crit on one of its Bullet Seeds, even this is questionable). As I can see, you question that benchmark, to which I'll respond by saying that this is a competition for finding the best counters. If Celebi were the only "true" counter for all circumstances (although it's really not), then it is the best counter and deserves the two points. And then other, slightly less reliable, counters would be deserving of the 1 point score.

2) Finding a flawless counter is fun. Me and Pride talked about Breloom for ages, coming up with cool stuff like Harvest Exeggutor and Lum Berry Deoxys-D. My own solution to the Breloom problem, CB Metagross, has pretty cool reasoning and it is still a viable Pokemon. It's just not a challenge if you add too much leeway into your battle conditions, because it's way too easy. If you guys want a pointlessly easy challenge then that's fine, but it's my belief that actually having a ridiculously harsh condition to think about is the only thing which makes this game fun.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

King Arceus said:
Scizor@Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP / 252 ATK / 4 Speed
-Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Superpower
- Quick Attack

Scizor will survive the hit then KO with Bullet Punch.
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No, that's not a counter. It's eating 56.6% - 67.1% from the Close Combat and 47.5% - 56.3% from the Stone Edge. This is not a "safe" switchin at all and in a real battle situation, nobody will fall for this and would switch out to salvage their Terrakion but I digress. A counter has to be able to switch into any move without being threatened. Getting stripped of at least 60% of your health is being threatened. What you posted was a check.

Just because something lives the first hit and can KO doesn't always make it a counter. If it can take the hits reliably then it is, but if it can only take one then it's a one-time fix. If we're assuming "normal battle conditions" then switching is to be considered. You can still find reliable counters even with this in mind (see: everything else that was posted).
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

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Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Fling
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics

Not gonna run damage calcs since I've used this guy against Terrakion all the time. He can switch into pretty much any move from Terrakion and tank the hit perfectly. Stone edge from Scarf Terrakion barely does 30% and you get HP investment from Poison Heal.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

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Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpA)
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Protect
-Ice Fang

I'm going to go for Gliscor again, just because it works as a really nice and simple counter. Yes, I thought of switching in this time, and Terrakion 4HKOs Gliscor after SR with its best move to hit it, Stone Edge. This makes Gliscor a great and efficient counter to Terrakion, and with Poison Heal, Gliscor can Protect itself to go for a 5HKO. Gliscor can simply Swords Dance and proceed to OHKO Terrakion, or simply 2HKO without a boost. Sure, it isn't the most creative set out there, but at least it does its job and takes 2 turns to KO Terrakion without being OHKOd itself.

252 Atk Jolly Choice Scarf Terrakion vs. 252 HP/184 Def Impish Poison Heal Gliscor:

Stone Edge: 29.94 - 35.59% (4HKO after SR)
Rock Slide: 22.31 - 26.55%
Close Combat: 17.79 - 21.18%
X-Scissor: 7.9 - 9.32%

Using the same sets, this is what Gliscor does to Terrakion:

Earthquake: 69.13 - 82.09% (guaranteed 2HKO, even w/o SR)
Ice Fang: 15.43 - 18.25

Edit: Are you serious ;.; That's not even funny. Well, I guess I got ninja'd.

Double Edit: Well, our sets are different, so I guess that means some merit?
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Yeah, they are different. You're fine.

Also, update to the battle conditions regarding all the nasty Breloom stuff (multi hit moves and sleep, as well as paralysis). Forgot to say something last night.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

@Comfort Eagle: If you want to play that way, most of the other Pokemon mentioned Terrakion would switch out on also.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

King Arceus said:
@Comfort Eagle: If you want to play that way, most of the other Pokemon mentioned Terrakion would switch out on also.
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But they can switchin more than once lol. Some of them like Skarmory and Slowbro even have access to recovery.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Physically Defensive ( Or Specially because this guy is just such a pimp )

amoonguss.png

AMOONGUSS @ Leftovers
Trait : Regenerator
Nature : Bold
EVS : 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SpDEF
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power Ice

I don't want to post Gliscor, and since there really is no "true counter" to Terrakion, I figure I might come to something pretty close to it. Amoonguss can take anything you throw at it, it resists Close Combat, can take Stone Edge like a champ, and counters most of Terrakions common teammates as well. Amoonguss is an fantastic anti meta Poke at the time, beating Breloom, Keldeo, Thunderus - T ( it can take tbolt), Rotom-W, and even take on Scizor ( not a counter but it does take U-Turn like a champ ).

original, classy, and 100% MUSHROOM
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

I'm jumping on the Gliscor bandwagon

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Gliscor @Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
Nature: Impish
252 HP/180Def/76 Spe
~Stealth Rock
~Roost
~Earthquake
~Ice Fang/Taunt

Same EVs as used in The Yoshi's counter, but with different attacks. Earthquake still does damage. However, this time, Stealth Rock (thanks BW2) can get set up, and I can actually Roost off damage. This makes Gliscor not only a counter for Terrakion, but also a great one to Dragons, as Roost pretty much laughs at them. I realize that's not the purpose, but I like the instant recovery provided here. It also makes gliscor only X2 weak to ice, which could be more useful if some random mon on your opponent's team has Ice Pawnch. So I guess I'm trying to convince you all that my counter is better because it's more useful overall while still pwning Terrakion.

EDIT: PDC, I do hope you mean Thundurus-T, and not Tornadus-T.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Personally I didn't really think the set mattered too much move-wise, since Stone Edge still 4HKOs after SR (w/o Poison Heal), and spamming Earthquake will kill it off anyway. I do like your set, though.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Yeah like I said, against Terrakion it does the same thing. I'm just posting it because I think it's more useful against other stuff than just terrakion.

Which might not be the point of research week. But I thought I'd throw it out there anyways because I couldn't come up with anything else rofl.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Other stuff than just Terrakion? Well since you mentioned "other stuff", I really wouldn't recommend the set you gave, since you get outdone by other threats that Gliscor can usually take care of, such as Bulk Up Breloom or Conkeldurr (unlike my Fling set or Yoshi's SD set). Nobody really runs Stealth Rocks on Gliscor because the metagame allows Gliscor to have much more potential. But yeah getting back on topic, Gliscor is in my opinion one of the best counters to Choice Scarf Terrakion
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Really dissapointed people posted Gliscor three times and failed to post other mons such as:

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
Nature: Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

X-Scissor: 35.4% - 42%

Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn

-1 Stone Edge: 26.1% - 31%

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Relaxed
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
- Leech Seed

X-Scissor: 26.7% - 31.7%
Close Combat: 29.7% - 35.7%
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 2

Points points points

TDL gets one
Teapot gets one
PDC gets one
The Yoshi gets a point
Emvee gets a point
PMJ gets a point
Shadow Scyther gets a point
Dark Void gets a point
Pride gets a point
Chillarmy gets two points.


Round 3
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Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
-Swords Dance
-Stone Edge
-U-Turn
-Earthquake

One of the new guys introduced in the BW2 Metagame, and easily the least common. But that doesn't mean that Landorus-T is bad. It's just different. Intimidate makes it a wonderful pivot, and 145 Attack alongside EdgeQuake coverage is potent, especially when backed up by Swords Dance.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 3

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Bronzong @ Leftovers
Sassy Nature
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
-Stealth Rock
-Gyro Ball
-HP Ice
-Earthquake

Immune to its STAB resists the coverage move. The best thing that Landorus can do is U-turn out.

Calcs:
Earthquake on Bronzong 0%
+2 Stone Edge on Bronzong 28.4% - 33.4%
+2 U-turn 39.6% - 46.7%

HP Ice on Landorus-T 55.4% - 65.2%

Also some EVs may be shifted to Def to take those hits even better but it isn't necessary.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 3

For counters, are we to assume it has pulled off an SD or not?
 
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