Future Metagame Speculation Thread
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RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Its a terrible card. Its a supporter that gives you hand disadvantage and is a poor refresh tool because most of a deck in this format are cards that can all be played in one turn, which makes Bianca and Juniper strong and this thing terrible. For comparison, in Yugioh there is a card called Magical Mallet with no limitations on it (so think Caitlin but an Item) and Yugioh has waaaaaay less draw and search and hand refresh power than Pokemon (there's a card that takes up your entire turn and only gives you +1 hand advantage, and its played in a lot of decks) and yet nobody plays Magical Mallet because it gives you hand disadvantage and if you have a good deck chances are there won't ever be many cards you want to shuffle back in.
Its a terrible card. Its a supporter that gives you hand disadvantage and is a poor refresh tool because most of a deck in this format are cards that can all be played in one turn, which makes Bianca and Juniper strong and this thing terrible. For comparison, in Yugioh there is a card called Magical Mallet with no limitations on it (so think Caitlin but an Item) and Yugioh has waaaaaay less draw and search and hand refresh power than Pokemon (there's a card that takes up your entire turn and only gives you +1 hand advantage, and its played in a lot of decks) and yet nobody plays Magical Mallet because it gives you hand disadvantage and if you have a good deck chances are there won't ever be many cards you want to shuffle back in.
Re: RE: Future Metagame Speculation
So Blastpony is bad? At some point, you're not going to want a rare candy, beach, or Squirtle/Blastoise in your hand. Are you saying that Blastpony is bad?
In Eels, you are not always going to want Benchtini or Emolga or Skyarrow in hand. Are you saying Eels is bad?
Don't get me wrong, Caitlin isn't fantastic, but it can be better than N in some situations. How many times have you said to yourself "I want to N, but I need this [card]?" Enter Caitlin. You can get what you don't presently need out of your hand, and keep what you do. Sure, it can be useless in quite a few situations (esp with no hand), but it isn't as bad as you are thinking it is.
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Dark Void said:
So Blastpony is bad? At some point, you're not going to want a rare candy, beach, or Squirtle/Blastoise in your hand. Are you saying that Blastpony is bad?
In Eels, you are not always going to want Benchtini or Emolga or Skyarrow in hand. Are you saying Eels is bad?
Don't get me wrong, Caitlin isn't fantastic, but it can be better than N in some situations. How many times have you said to yourself "I want to N, but I need this [card]?" Enter Caitlin. You can get what you don't presently need out of your hand, and keep what you do. Sure, it can be useless in quite a few situations (esp with no hand), but it isn't as bad as you are thinking it is.
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RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Difference between mallet and Caitlin is that Caitlin throws unwanted cards to the bottom of the deck and lets you draw a set of fresh cards. Meaning it is effective filter
The thing with stupid YuGiOh mentality is that they keep on looking on card advantage as numbers rather than card quality where you get less cards but you get a bigger chance of getting stuff you need.
Putting it in a perspective of a game I play, Vanguard. You may draw all the cards you can get, but if all of those are just crappy Grade 3s with no shields, you're still screwed.
Caitlin is bad and Bianca is superior? Let's see if you have 5 or so cards in hand and all are just clogged cards. Would you rather draw two with Bianca or -1 yourself with Caitlyn for a chance to refresh your hand with better cards?
Difference between mallet and Caitlin is that Caitlin throws unwanted cards to the bottom of the deck and lets you draw a set of fresh cards. Meaning it is effective filter
The thing with stupid YuGiOh mentality is that they keep on looking on card advantage as numbers rather than card quality where you get less cards but you get a bigger chance of getting stuff you need.
Putting it in a perspective of a game I play, Vanguard. You may draw all the cards you can get, but if all of those are just crappy Grade 3s with no shields, you're still screwed.
Caitlin is bad and Bianca is superior? Let's see if you have 5 or so cards in hand and all are just clogged cards. Would you rather draw two with Bianca or -1 yourself with Caitlyn for a chance to refresh your hand with better cards?
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Iris is a good clutch card, a one-off in some decks.
yes, SheNinja, you are right. Caitlyn is strong early game when you want to establish early game presence. Especially in Pokemon where winning the early game guarantees you a 70-30 chance of winning unless you get N-fucked
Iris is a good clutch card, a one-off in some decks.
yes, SheNinja, you are right. Caitlyn is strong early game when you want to establish early game presence. Especially in Pokemon where winning the early game guarantees you a 70-30 chance of winning unless you get N-fucked
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Key word is "many". Its extremely rare when you'd have more than 3 cards in your hand like that, so Cheren is better than Caitlin. There aren't many decks in this format that can still get a hand of 5 useless cards.
PellOfTheTundra said:
Key word is "many". Its extremely rare when you'd have more than 3 cards in your hand like that, so Cheren is better than Caitlin. There aren't many decks in this format that can still get a hand of 5 useless cards.
Re: RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Even having two or three dead cards out of your hand is a huge help, and can help for setting up a Juniper next turn. Say I have 2 Juniper, a Blastoise, 2 Rare Candy, and topdeck a Caitlin. Well, surely, although I would LOVE to get the 7 cards from Juniper, I don't wanna drop 2 Junipers, 2 Rare Candy, and a Blastoise into the discard. I can Caitlin a Juniper, both Candy, and the Blastoise to the deck, draw my four, and next turn, possibly Juniper. Caitlin is very multifunctional in that aspect because it can help preserve resources or drop some unneeded cards in order to get some you may need. Saying it is awful is ignoring how it is supposed to function, and how many uses it can have. Sure, it's bad draw. I get that. So is Ghetsis. But both can be extremely powerful in the earlygame and easily can tip the scales in your favor. Both are more than just draw cards, though.
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Dark Void said:
Even having two or three dead cards out of your hand is a huge help, and can help for setting up a Juniper next turn. Say I have 2 Juniper, a Blastoise, 2 Rare Candy, and topdeck a Caitlin. Well, surely, although I would LOVE to get the 7 cards from Juniper, I don't wanna drop 2 Junipers, 2 Rare Candy, and a Blastoise into the discard. I can Caitlin a Juniper, both Candy, and the Blastoise to the deck, draw my four, and next turn, possibly Juniper. Caitlin is very multifunctional in that aspect because it can help preserve resources or drop some unneeded cards in order to get some you may need. Saying it is awful is ignoring how it is supposed to function, and how many uses it can have. Sure, it's bad draw. I get that. So is Ghetsis. But both can be extremely powerful in the earlygame and easily can tip the scales in your favor. Both are more than just draw cards, though.
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RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Well then you're probably doing it wrong @SheNinja. I don't think I've had even a handful of scenarios in which I'd prefer Caitlin to Cheren or Bianca since the rotation (or before it, for that matter). Either way, you're going to want for actual draw/search from another supporter more than a hand refresh that only works when you don't want to play a single card in your 4+ card hand.
Edit@Pell: The scenario in which you described is rather rare, and while yes there are times when I do not want to discard something from Juniper the 7 new cards I'm getting are at least as often as not more beneficial than the 2 or 3 I'd get from Caitlin, and there are so many situations in which another supporter is purely more beneficial. Even in the scenario you described a Cheren might very well end up being better for me than Caitlin would have (say I get 2 Squirtles off of it or a way to search them out, or perhaps an Ultra Ball that makes me want to discard cards in my hand).
Well then you're probably doing it wrong @SheNinja. I don't think I've had even a handful of scenarios in which I'd prefer Caitlin to Cheren or Bianca since the rotation (or before it, for that matter). Either way, you're going to want for actual draw/search from another supporter more than a hand refresh that only works when you don't want to play a single card in your 4+ card hand.
Edit@Pell: The scenario in which you described is rather rare, and while yes there are times when I do not want to discard something from Juniper the 7 new cards I'm getting are at least as often as not more beneficial than the 2 or 3 I'd get from Caitlin, and there are so many situations in which another supporter is purely more beneficial. Even in the scenario you described a Cheren might very well end up being better for me than Caitlin would have (say I get 2 Squirtles off of it or a way to search them out, or perhaps an Ultra Ball that makes me want to discard cards in my hand).
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Well you play off PlayTcg from what i remember, the randomizer there is flawed. Try in an actual game of TCG and you will notice that dead cards are more often than not common. This is especially true for the mid-game of White Tea as well. Trust me, I've played too much Pokemon TCG before to die from bad hands. A Caitlyn or two in a deck isn't as bad as you think
Well you play off PlayTcg from what i remember, the randomizer there is flawed. Try in an actual game of TCG and you will notice that dead cards are more often than not common. This is especially true for the mid-game of White Tea as well. Trust me, I've played too much Pokemon TCG before to die from bad hands. A Caitlyn or two in a deck isn't as bad as you think
Re: RE: Future Metagame Speculation
It could be fantastic in EggWeasel to get more eggys into your hand. XD But I think Iris would be more useful overall.
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SheNinja said:It'll probably be played around as much as Colress, 0-2 depending which deck you will be playing. I personally think that it helps a ton early-game in many decks, but that's just me
It could be fantastic in EggWeasel to get more eggys into your hand. XD But I think Iris would be more useful overall.
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RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Generally because I don't trust my luck I run very few cards that can be dead cards and I also run a large number of supporters in every deck I play. However, I don't like "inconsistent" supporters for this reason. Getting a Colress or a Caitlin in the wrong hand/field actually makes your supporter a dead card, which is something that I would not risk. If you really want to test it out, use what I call the "Bianca vs. Cheren" method. You put one of the cards you're deciding on in the deck and tally when you draw/use it how often you would prefer it to be the other card and how often you would prefer it to be the one that you have. I haven't done this with Caitlin yet, but I'd be surprised if I'm wanting it more often than Cheren or Bianca in almost all decks.
Riskbreakers said:
Generally because I don't trust my luck I run very few cards that can be dead cards and I also run a large number of supporters in every deck I play. However, I don't like "inconsistent" supporters for this reason. Getting a Colress or a Caitlin in the wrong hand/field actually makes your supporter a dead card, which is something that I would not risk. If you really want to test it out, use what I call the "Bianca vs. Cheren" method. You put one of the cards you're deciding on in the deck and tally when you draw/use it how often you would prefer it to be the other card and how often you would prefer it to be the one that you have. I haven't done this with Caitlin yet, but I'd be surprised if I'm wanting it more often than Cheren or Bianca in almost all decks.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Another question I want to ask, apoligize for interrupting but I want to ask very badly, but do you remember the old days when every deck ran an Uxie? When a pokemon you could search boosted consistency? I loved Uxie pesonally so I looked forward to the Uxie EX but then was disappointed by the 60 HP gimmick they made, but then I saw something else! I saw Jirachi EX, a pokemon to search for a supporter when benched! I immdeiatly took out the emolga in my plasmaklang (already wanted to take out but wasnt sure what for) and went to testing the Jirachi EX. I was amazed how well it worked the first time. My hand was an ultra Ball, rare candy, and metal energy. I used the Ultra Ball to get Jirachi and got a whole new hand from a Juniper! So my question is will Jirachi EX ever became a staple in any deck? Will it be used at all competitively?
Pros: Ultra Ball Searchable
Level Ball searchable
Protection from EX's in Plasmaklang
Cons: 90 HP/Vulnerable
EX, 2 Prizes
Only a supporter card
Another question I want to ask, apoligize for interrupting but I want to ask very badly, but do you remember the old days when every deck ran an Uxie? When a pokemon you could search boosted consistency? I loved Uxie pesonally so I looked forward to the Uxie EX but then was disappointed by the 60 HP gimmick they made, but then I saw something else! I saw Jirachi EX, a pokemon to search for a supporter when benched! I immdeiatly took out the emolga in my plasmaklang (already wanted to take out but wasnt sure what for) and went to testing the Jirachi EX. I was amazed how well it worked the first time. My hand was an ultra Ball, rare candy, and metal energy. I used the Ultra Ball to get Jirachi and got a whole new hand from a Juniper! So my question is will Jirachi EX ever became a staple in any deck? Will it be used at all competitively?
Pros: Ultra Ball Searchable
Level Ball searchable
Protection from EX's in Plasmaklang
Cons: 90 HP/Vulnerable
EX, 2 Prizes
Only a supporter card