Greninja BREAK

LiftoffLizard said:
Well then this is both good and bad. Finally Sceptile will be in some sense viable, but Greninja loses some of its ground.
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M Sceptile decks were always viable, just never especially prominent, largely due to a shaky Night March matchup (if you could get the Mega out with an energy on it T1, you had a solid shot at winning, but if you couldn't they'd steamroll you) and a bad M-Ray matchup. There have been a few Sceptile decks placing at Regionals here and there throughout the season. The deck definitely does get better post-rotation with Night March gone and the associated slowing of the format (I don't think it'll be a huge difference, but we no longer have to worry about T1 setups except MAYBE from M-Ray), and this makes things significantly harder for Greninja players because Sceptile practically gets an auto-win. It does bear mentioning that M-Ray being so prominent is a problem for Sceptile players, as is the common inclusion of Giratina-EX in Darkrai decks, so I don't think we're looking at a jump to Tier 1 for Sceptile, but it does get better.
 
dwarfstar said:
M Sceptile decks were always viable, just never especially prominent, largely due to a shaky Night March matchup (if you could get the Mega out with an energy on it T1, you had a solid shot at winning, but if you couldn't they'd steamroll you) and a bad M-Ray matchup. There have been a few Sceptile decks placing at Regionals here and there throughout the season. The deck definitely does get better post-rotation with Night March gone and the associated slowing of the format (I don't think it'll be a huge difference, but we no longer have to worry about T1 setups except MAYBE from M-Ray), and this makes things significantly harder for Greninja players because Sceptile practically gets an auto-win. It does bear mentioning that M-Ray being so prominent is a problem for Sceptile players, as is the common inclusion of Giratina-EX in Darkrai decks, so I don't think we're looking at a jump to Tier 1 for Sceptile, but it does get better.
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Well yes but I meant that it had a chance to wreak havoc (not over powered), for once he can see a lot of competitive play.
 
Is anyone else finding that PTCGO is becoming a hostile place for Greninja BREAK at the moment (and almost certainly for the forseeable future)?

I'm truly of the belief that Greninja decks will not be viable for the early stages of PRC-On. So the next question becomes, "what needs to happen for Greninja to bounce back?". To answer that I think a couple of things need to happen;
  1. A decrease in the usage of Garbodor - we'll need to wait for the Garbo-hype to calm down or for the release of a Supporter/Item card capable of discarding the opponent's Tool cards.
  2. A resurgence of competitive Fire decks. Fortunately, the release of Volcanion-EX shine a spotlight on the archetype but unfortunately, Fire types are set to lose some key support cards come rotation - mainly Blacksmith. A reprint of this card alone would give a huge boost to Fire type decks, potentially leading to a) lots of [W] weak decks for Greninja to pick on; and b) a hostile environment for Grass decks such as Mega Sceptile.
  3. The emergence of a top tier deck using low HP Pokemon for Giant Water Shuriken to snipe.
Do people think that Greninja BREAK is curtains or will it have a chance to shine again in the future? I appreciate this is all conjecture but its fun to speculate. Alternatively, does anyone disagree and think that Greninja will continue as a good deck in the early stages of PRC-On?
 
Greninja Break has not lost anything vital to its strategy with the 2017 rotation, so it may still see play. However I do see Mega Sceptile seeing a lot more play too so I think Greninja will begin to lose its ground with the meta game.
 
LiftoffLizard said:
Greninja Break has not lost anything vital to its strategy with the 2017 rotation, so it may still see play. However I do see Mega Sceptile seeing a lot more play too so I think Greninja will begin to lose its ground with the meta game.
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Assuming that the Premium Champion Set isn't a thing, Greninja BREAK will be losing 2 important tools. First, it's losing Base Set Greninja, which used the smaller Shurikens with the benefit of not having to be in the active slot. Greninja BREAK relied heavily on this card in order to hit the magic number of 170 to OHKO your standard fare EXs like Yveltal-EX or Giratina-EX. Without him around, Greninja decks now need to waste time searching the deck for 2 Greninja BREAK to retain that OHKO potential.

Another major loss will be Muscle Band's absence. Without it, Greninja isn't able to deal with the bulkier EXs such as Zygarde-EX or any EX with Fighting Fury Belt equipped as easily. Even with double Giant Water Shurikens, you're not going to reliably OHKO EXs with Fighting Fury Belt or the routine Mega Evolutions, and if XY Base Greninja is gone as well, the feat becomes nearly impossible.

While Greninja BREAK can still do what it does, it's going to be losing a lot of things that made it consistent. It won't be a safe pick unless it at least gets XY Base Greninja back.
 
Sabaku said:
Assuming that the Premium Champion Set isn't a thing, Greninja BREAK will be losing 2 important tools. First, it's losing Base Set Greninja, which used the smaller Shurikens with the benefit of not having to be in the active slot. Greninja BREAK relied heavily on this card in order to hit the magic number of 170 to OHKO your standard fare EXs like Yveltal-EX or Giratina-EX. Without him around, Greninja decks now need to waste time searching the deck for 2 Greninja BREAK to retain that OHKO potential.

Another major loss will be Muscle Band's absence. Without it, Greninja isn't able to deal with the bulkier EXs such as Zygarde-EX or any EX with Fighting Fury Belt equipped as easily. Even with double Giant Water Shurikens, you're not going to reliably OHKO EXs with Fighting Fury Belt or the routine Mega Evolutions, and if XY Base Greninja is gone as well, the feat becomes nearly impossible.

While Greninja BREAK can still do what it does, it's going to be losing a lot of things that made it consistent. It won't be a safe pick unless it at least gets XY Base Greninja back.
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Well not necessarily. Given that we lose some damage support, the rotation also drops some very important stuff for say Zygarde and Giratina. Zygarde loses Fighting Stadium, Hawlucha, Landorus, Lucario EX (IDK how much play this gets), and even Korrina. While Giratina loses its partner in crime Toads.

Plus Shaymin EX already gets a lot of play, and with the Water Toolbox slowly rising in popularity, Greninja will see lots of low hp pokemon to snipe off. Not to mention Garbodor coming back into the ring.
 
Greninja will see a decline in play and probably tier too (RIP my beloved deck) on the early stages of the new rotation for sure, Garbodor/Hex Maniac/MSceptile and even Pokemon Ranger (=no Shadow stitching) will be the reason.
I just hope for some of these 3 cards to get reprinted later so that the deck comes back to life:
- Muscle Band (will let you 1HKO a MRay and any EX holding a FFB except Zygarde with 2GWS and 1 Moonlight Slash for 100dmg, you can also Lysandre and 1HKO a Garbodor with that extra 20 damage)
-Startling Megaphone or Xerosic (with Megaphone being better since we most likely won't see any item lock for a while, but I also own a copy of FA Xerosic which is nice...).

I'm waiting for the new rotation so I can try out new things with Greninja on PTCGO since right now everyone using cards that will get rotated doesn't help.
A few thing to consider (most of the have been mentioned here before, just making a list):
- Rough Seas won't be needed since Trevenant will most likely die. (that's space for 2-3 Cards)
- Jirachi and Bursting balloons won't be needed too since NM and Vespiqueen (most probably) will die. (That's 4-5 extra free space in deck, considering we will run 1 Jirachi instead of 2).
- With Item lock being dead we can try bringing out our Greninjas using lots of pokeballs (I've seen someone winning first place last month using a total of 11 balls in his deck/ 4dive-4level-3 Ultra if I recall correctly).
- We can also use Rare candies and 1-2 more Wally copies, which in theory can bring out a Break in one turn (!) -not our first one though-
- Silent lab can slow down most decks and since I don't see decks now going for the extremely fast 1-Turn set up like NM or Trevenant Item Lock that most of the time was unstoppable, making your oponent wait 1 extra turn before he attacks for big numbers can help you a lot.
- I've found that a nice "counter" to MSceptile is Parallel City since it prevents it from 1HKO-ing you (3HKO with a weakness policy) and it also works vs MRay if you choose to deal -20dmg.
 
Fairy Box Master said:
It would be best to -2 Frokie and add something else
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That would make the deck seem very inconsistent. The least amount of froakie you want is 3 which I found myself lacking Froakie a lot. I like running 4 especially when there is already a low basics count.
 
I'm rather new, and am trying to get into the pokemon tcgo. With rotation in a couple weeks, is this a deck I should try to pick up anyway? What is its viability in Expanded, rather than standard? (Since you can play XY Greninja still) Are there better decks to play on a relative budget? (I am doing F2P, might buy bulk codes online) I am a veteran card game player, but I am new to competitive pokemon tcg.
 
thornzion said:
I'm rather new, and am trying to get into the pokemon tcgo. With rotation in a couple weeks, is this a deck I should try to pick up anyway? What is its viability in Expanded, rather than standard? (Since you can play XY Greninja still) Are there better decks to play on a relative budget? (I am doing F2P, might buy bulk codes online) I am a veteran card game player, but I am new to competitive pokemon tcg.
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I think you're talking about the online TCG, if so, I think you should play with the deck if you like it. It's still a very fun deck to play even the rotation makes it a harder deck to play. IRL, I think the cost-benefit isn't very good right now since you can build equally competitive decks spending less money.
 
Calcab said:
I think you're talking about the online TCG, if so, I think you should play with the deck if you like it. It's still a very fun deck to play even the rotation makes it a harder deck to play. IRL, I think the cost-benefit isn't very good right now since you can build equally competitive decks spending less money.
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Yes, I'm talking about the online tcg. Thanks for the advice, I just didn't want to try to get it if it won't be viable.
 
I think that one of the only things you can do to make it a little better is to add some strong Basic, who can add some support if the Greninjas aren't running as smoothly
 
Greninja13 said:
I think that one of the only things you can do to make it a little better is to add some strong Basic, who can add some support if the Greninjas aren't running as smoothly
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BTW I'm also a huge Greninja fan who uses a Greninja BREAK deck.
 
I think that Glaceon-EX is a good addition since we'll probably be facing many MSceptile.
 
Mega Sceptile is Mega Sceptile and the only way to beat it is with sniping Shaymins and Hoopas. Mega Sceptile is one of the decks you go up against and can't do anything about as a Greninja player. There is no need to tech against it and if this deck is either popular in your area or becomes top tier, then don't play Greninja. Greninja decks I feel should only play one Jirachi (Not as many special energies will be roaming the format) for after rotation. Other than Jirachi, Greninja will play lots of Frogs and lots of search options.
 
awesomeMSG said:
Mega Sceptile is Mega Sceptile and the only way to beat it is with sniping Shaymins and Hoopas. Mega Sceptile is one of the decks you go up against and can't do anything about as a Greninja player. There is no need to tech against it and if this deck is either popular in your area or becomes top tier, then don't play Greninja. Greninja decks I feel should only play one Jirachi (Not as many special energies will be roaming the format) for after rotation. Other than Jirachi, Greninja will play lots of Frogs and lots of search options.
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I think the best way to play it is use Articuno (No Weakness) and Glaceon EX (Crystal Ray)
 
am considering teching in the new talonflame from steam siege - just watched Bert Walters (day 1 worlds) start with it 2/3 times and it seemed to work well for him. thoughts?
 
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