Finished Mafia XLII: War of the Gods ~ GAME OVER ~ Town wins!

[Scattered mind]

No problem. Give us another good option and I will vote them instead.

 

[mordacazir]

No problem. Give us another good option and I will vote them instead.

Rainyman? Idk. Ill try to make a case on him I guess. Or GM.

 

[Scattered mind]

I think you better build a case on Rainy. GM Drac has already been looked at.

 

[Camoclone]

I'm up to page 12 so far which really isn't good at all. Honestly I started to make a huge post but then realized I don't have much to say up to that point. I wasn't feeling the NP case until a turning point and this post:

This is like a Celever-Camo argument; it just hurts the town (as people are to afraid too bring up their own thoughts and lurkers don't read the thread fully), and provides nothing but an innocent lynch.

Nothing really stands out so far but I think it's because that kind of gave me a headache. I'll continue to get caught up ASAP and reread again when I'm more focused. Sorry boys.

 

[mordacazir]

@rainyman123

##Vote: Ninja Penguin

Was originally gonna RVS, but looked over the posts, and dude, I think I might've played a couple games with you, but this one you definetely seem a lot more aggressive, at least to my expierence. Call it bandwagon, but this is just what I've noticed. And we are barely into the game. Not only this, but, the first quoted message just seemed scummy to me, as though he could possibly be covering up for BB. Probably completely wrong, but again, just what I've noticed.
Sorry if it didn't quote the whole passage I wanted to quote, but mobile is not the best yknow. Anyways, I sort of agree with lorde on this one, he's a seasoned player, that's weird dude, and it morely hints towards what I said first in that slight possibility or NP and BB scumteam.

Attacking NP so this is good evedince that he is town or indie

Oh uh woops for holding on first quote

He accidently bolded the first quote.

I quoted it because I saw that it was another reason to justify my action in voting NP. Now if you want aggressiveness




I dunno, I just saw this kinda scummy, p sure I've played with NP before and have no memory of anything if this sort at all, so I found it scummy and kinda aggressive.

Even further explaining him voting NP because of his aggresiveness.

Just what I got from this, but basically what I heard you say was, "it's townie if inexprienced players freak out" and you didn't explain how this could affect older and more experienced players, instead you just focused on the inexperienced.

Good post.

I think your being a little hasty. While he might've been the last to like the confirmation post, how does it apparently clearly make him scum? I'm not sure I understand.

It was a sarcastic RVS vote so heres your answer.

tbh to thought I kind of explained it here. It was just a minor thought.

Scattered asks why Rainy thinks bb and np could be scum team. And rainy says he kinda explained in his first post. Also a okay post nothing scummy

Day 2

NinjaPenguin was blocked? Does that also block the nightkill? If so, he might've just been blocked from doing the NK. I know it's p unlikely, but it's a possibility.

He didn't understand the doctoring thing as he said in a later post:

Oh I didn't read Om the doctoring thing. Well, I'll believe it, but it's still suspicious.

Also I have an idol, used 4 hearts, aaaaand I can't unvote :/

Yes and it's still confuzzling :/

So like, mandatory voting

All about his idol he got. Also not scummy or anything just not something really useful. So it is a tiny bit scummy.

Well, if NP directed the NK, I might've had something to do with it.

He never continued on this but I dont think he has something to do with the NK because of the doctor.

I'm with the slip. I was already on BB and NP anyways, and this just proves it.

Again, he is with NP lynch.
Conclusion:
I dont think he is scum because of all the tunneling against NP but he could still be Indie. He hasnt posted a lot where it isnt about NP or BB and hasnt even posted today.

I hope to see @everyone posting their thoughts by tomorrow,, especially who they think is scummiest and why, even if it's just a gut read. Giving solid evidence would be really great though... >.>

So everyone except Rainy and Jade have said something yet. So @Jadethepokemontrainer .

 

[mordacazir]

Also my top scum read is GM now.

 

[Scattered mind]

Why GM?

 

[double o squirtle]

Day 3 Vote Count 1

All votes are in chronological order
The players being voted are in alphabetical order
The player(s) with the most votes is tagged
If you think there’s anything wrong please ask

@mordacazir 1: scattered mind (vote) l

A reminder that Day 3 will end in 95 hours on July 11th 7am EST.
Only some of you guys have hit the 3 post minimum for today and we’re over 48 hours in. Pick up the activity please. ^^

 

[bbninjas]

##VOTE: mordacazir
Not providing a reason gets us nowhere.

[to scattered mind's vote] Reason?

These were NP's first two posts of the game, and sorta set the tone for the rest of his play, at least for RVS. He's definitely aggressive (Celever reckoning NP overephasised this in trying to replicate his play), in his quick-to-vote/quick-to-ask style. The question I have here is whether or not NP would have voted mordacazir, if he was his scumbuddy, and if morda reacted genuinely. Players know that RVS is just that - random. It's generally pretty safe to vote your scumbuddy, as unless your scumbuddy does something stupid, most scum can shrug off votes on themselves and others as RVS. This means that scum can become 'immune' to RVS, and this is especially so when being voted by a scumbuddy, who they know isn't pressuring for real.

However, mordacazir actually seemed to react a bit in response to NP's question, perhaps out of annoyance. It's either a really good play on morda's part as scum, or morda's town, because as stated, that's not a normal scumbuddy reaction. The other thing that I find interesting is that when NP votes IE, it is so plainly obviously RVS - compare that to his first vote on morda, which is has some actual reason behind it. Would NP have voted a scumbuddy with proper reasoning as his first vote? I'm not too sure. The other thing is that IE was picked possibly in an attempt to distance each other, and possibly because he hadn't actually started distancing yet. The reason I think this is because of that awkward reasoning and the notable difference between his initial RVS pressures that makes this vote on IE seemed forced and nearly desperate.

tl;dr This is a little bit more evidence that makes me more confident that morda is town.

As for why I do think he's town, it's largely because of his scumhunts. That just make sense and don't feel forced. Even this most recent analysis of rainyman (I, btw, agree with the conclusion) is though-through. Perhaps another thing is that he's asking questions and for clarification (e.g. here), which show's he not just being apathetic (which is pro-town). There's also a bit of gut feeling here; and that probably stems from me subconciously comparing morda's play this game to past games and not finding anything weird about it.

##Vote: Ninja Penguin

Was originally gonna RVS, but looked over the posts, and dude, I think I might've played a couple games with you, but this one you definetely seem a lot more aggressive, at least to my expierence. Call it bandwagon, but this is just what I've noticed. And we are barely into the game. Not only this, but, the first quoted message just seemed scummy to me, as though he could possibly be covering up for BB. Probably completely wrong, but again, just what I've noticed.
Sorry if it didn't quote the whole passage I wanted to quote, but mobile is not the best yknow. Anyways, I sort of agree with lorde on this one, he's a seasoned player, that's weird dude, and it morely hints towards what I said first in that slight possibility or NP and BB scumteam.

Just what I got from this, but basically what I heard you say was, "it's townie if inexprienced players freak out" and you didn't explain how this could affect older and more experienced players, instead you just focused on the inexperienced.

Huge townie points here, which just compliments with my other townie reads on him (also see morda's recent 'town case' on him). I think rainy was the one who actually began the momentum on the NP wagon with his vote (a few people just pressured), which is just not something I see rainy doing as a scumbuddy to NP. iirc, rainy was pretty inactive/non-contributive when he was last scum (which was only a few games ago, right?), and has steadily begun scumhunting more in recent games (as town); and so if he was scum and doing bus-like stuff, he's done a huge skill jump. So, yeah, think he's town.

Morning!

##VOTE: Haunted Water

Now this is interesting. Jade randomly pops in with a vote on HW, and ignoring the entire situation that had just happened with NP vs Celever. Scum sometimes ignore situations like this, not wanting to risk any scumtells on their part, especially tied with a buddy that could get lynched.

However, they eventually comment on the case and get to the point of considering a Celever/NP scumteam... which is weird theory for a scumbuddy to latch onto, but I don't think it's something they wouldn't do either. It's just a bit odd, and I'm not sure what to think of it. The more interesting thing is that they seem to be in full supportance of NP's lynch - no wishy-washyness or anything; so if scum, either Jade knows how to distance herself from scumbuddies, or she's just accepted fate... or she's town.

^

Wouldn't really be surprised to see a Cel and NP scumteam. Really my only scumread's based off of what other people have said.

Okay I go to work for two days and this all happens.

My thought on NP is that everyone is over-reacting on him, and also that NP over-reacted to an obvious RVS vote. There's nothing more to it than that.

Obvious link is obvious - Prof P goes against the flow (iirc) and says that the case is not of legit reasoning. I'm not too sure what to make of it, because I also was juggling this idea myself, but it certainly doesn't make me think Prof/Drac to be any townier.

etc

JUST KISS ALREADY. Also "It's so fluffy I'm gonna die.
I wouldn't put it past Cel and NP to be Scumbuddys and doing this as a distraction. Considering how experienced and sh*t they are. Just Sayin.

etc

Very strong 'this is stupid' vibes, which tends to be a more townie feeling. In fact, the entire post is very consistently 'this is stupid', which makes me think it's entirely genuine. Of course, this could be scum annoyed that their buddy has been pushed for 'stupid' reasons, although calling out both players would be an interesting play in this case. No solid conclusion here, but food for thought.

I honestly cant form an opinion as from what I've seen he's commenting on his past meta, while being admittedly dodgy.

Because we have no information on who could be scum and who is town. Tell me, do you have any reads right now other NP? I'll vote when I feel there is solid evidence, when no mistakes could be made. It's not scummy, in fact back in the day No Lynch on D1 got so popular that games started on N1 then D1. That way people could use abilities and use the information they gained N1 to their advantage to start piecing together a case against scum rotb. Thus, I abstain from voting until I feel like I'm certain scum has been found.

Did you not read my post all the way?

I'm not waiting for a wagon, I'm waiting for a scum tell. I see no reason thus far in my eyes that NP is scum; even if he is shadely dodging questions based on speculation of playstyle. I don't have the time nor patience currently to look back at his past games to speculate on him myself.
Metagaming in itself is a stupid tool to use, as it's trial and error; mostly error. We did it last game, and where did it get us? We took that L.
It's also easily used by scum because it's almost impossible to refute, so to use someone's past game play as a tool against them is just as scummy as abstaining from voting on D1.

As to answer the question that I missed, my opinion on my players currently, I do feel that NP is reacting rather harshly compared to how I'd react with being metagamed, but the meta has changed so apparently metagaming is better than pressure voting.

HW's interactions with NP is really the best indication of his Jesi's Camo's alignment atm, considering the disappearance act of this trio (Camo couldn't be around when he first subbed in, which is unfortunate because his interactions with NP could have been useful). The thing is, I'm finding it very hard to read. There's definitely a bit of irritation here, and HW's definitely defending how (and why) he plays the way he does, which is fine. The weirder part is how adamant he is to not comment on the current game. He eventually comments on NP in his last post, albiet wishy-washy by causing doubt in his reads with the 'but the metagame has changed' card. This could easily be scum making excuses to sit on the fence - HW's played a game recently, and just because a people consider metagaming better, it doesn't mean it is. I feel like this could be a cop-out.

There's no commitment in this post. He says I'm dodging questions in a shady manner, but doesn't consider it a scum tell. IIRC, he tends shady and scummy fairly interchangeably, which means that what he's saying amounts to nothing. He's adding some fuel to the fire, but when I flip, he'll use the other part of this statement.

NP interestingly sorta defends himself against Haunted here while simultaneously pressures him - a common scum reaction for sure. However, I also agree with NP that Haunted was wishy-washy/vague (which is what NP seems to be getting at), however HW also had valid points on NP. It reminds me a lot of the lorde/me thing that went down this last game! It looks like NP might have taken a gambit here to push HW a bit to get that towncred, but never ended up settling on him - rather moving on to lorde later on (also a more common scum habit, to pressure a scumbuddy but settle on town).

I'd not be surprised if NP and HW were scumbuddies, at this point.

Also, I didn't get beyond the posts above unfortunately. I do think that someone really should check up Celever's reads, because I don't know if I'll get around to it. >.>'

 

[bbninjas]

Also a tl;dr because I know some of you don't read uber long posts:

Based on the backlog I've gotten so far; looking into their interactions with NP (and IE to an extent):

mordacazir (town) - was NP's first 'pressure'. There's distinct differences between this pressure and NP's RVS vote on IE, which is more evidence for morda being town. morda is also questions and scumhunting well, which is pro-town.
rainy (town) - caused the momentum on NP to begin. Is contributing okay (albiet dropping off occassionally); if scum, has had an abnormal skill jump since his more recent game as scum (compare to his lurking behaviour of past).
jade (neutral, leaning town) - Ignored the Celever vs NP when first posted (could be a scumtell), however later said that NP (and Celever) are probably scumbuddies, which is an interesting thing for Jade to say if scum. Not at all excluding the possibility of scum here, but really @Jadethepokemontrainer needs to post more, because them not being around has made things difficult.
Prof P/GM Drac (neutral, leaning town) - Was clearly against the NP lynch, so obvious link is obvious. Doesn't make them any townier; I think this is fairly neutral. Leaning town due to Drac's role primarily.
mirdo (leaning town) - Seems to have genuine frustration regarding the Celever vs NP thing, although it's feelings that I could see both alignments having. Leaning town for reasons previous stated about how their posts come across.
HW/Jesi/Camo (neutral, leaning scum) - HW was adament to not really comment on things, which is weird, and also wishy-washyness regarding NP. NP ends up pressuring HW for a bit (although ends up settling on lorde), which reminds me of how lorde and I played this past game (both of us were scum).

##UNVOTE ##VOTE: Camo

I'm tired >.>

Also can other people begin scumhunting? It's only the same few people (scattered, me, morda) atm. >.>

 

[Nyora]

I'm alive!

Reads:

Scattered - Town. As of other games I've payed with him and in this one thus far, he Is behaving like he did when he was Town.
BB - Nuetral. Idk on this guy, lemme go back and read his posts.
Morda - Nuetral but possibly indie. Morda seems like a town to me, I don't really see anything huge or whatever pointing out that he might be scum, but it has occurred to me someone's probably an indie, and something in my gut just says morda might be the indie.
Jade - scum. Inactive as heck yo. Ik ik I was too, but he also doesn't seem to be contributing as much either.
Camo - Nuetral - just entered, idk yet.
GM Drac - Town. Not the most helpful, but does seem to be contributing.
Mirdo - light scum. His posts seem scummy, but he's kinda helping too. Not enough yet for me to vote on just yet, but we'll see.

 

[Scattered mind]

Rainyman is the indie. Probably.

 

[Scattered mind]

Morda - Nuetral but possibly indie. Morda seems like a town to me, I don't really see anything huge or whatever pointing out that he might be scum, but it has occurred to me someone's probably an indie, and something in my gut just says morda might be the indie.

This is the reason I think rainy is likely the indie, if indeed exists, because they usually be those who start talking about indies. + this from Superheroes where he was indie:

Agreed people can do many scummy things. I agree we can possibly get more information but it would not be very much, and probably not be game changing. I'd say one of the biggest things is figuring our if there was an indie group or no, or by some weird means figure out of there is a solo person. (Does that even exist in mafia online? I know IRL me and my friends have the "mason" but I don't know about online mafia games.)

 

[bbninjas]

This is the reason I think rainy is likely the indie, if indeed exists, because they usually be those who start talking about indies. + this from Superheroes where he was indie:

Good point about rainy; I agree.

What are your thoughts on my post above?

 

[GM DracLord]

This is the reason I think rainy is likely the indie, if indeed exists, because they usually be those who start talking about indies. + this from Superheroes where he was indie:

• He could also be a scum that just want to initiate paranoia to the town scaring us with the existence of an indie. but if an indie does exist, anyone remember the last time an indie has dangerous ability in a small game?

 

[bbninjas]

Indies very often have 'dangerous abilities', or at least Abilities that help them reach their wincon, which makes them dangerous as such.

 

[mordacazir]

Why GM?

Just a gut feeling.

I'm alive!

Reads:

Scattered - Town. As of other games I've payed with him and in this one thus far, he Is behaving like he did when he was Town.
BB - Nuetral. Idk on this guy, lemme go back and read his posts.
Morda - Nuetral but possibly indie. Morda seems like a town to me, I don't really see anything huge or whatever pointing out that he might be scum, but it has occurred to me someone's probably an indie, and something in my gut just says morda might be the indie.
Jade - scum. Inactive as heck yo. Ik ik I was too, but he also doesn't seem to be contributing as much either.
Camo - Nuetral - just entered, idk yet.
GM Drac - Town. Not the most helpful, but does seem to be contributing.
Mirdo - light scum. His posts seem scummy, but he's kinda helping too. Not enough yet for me to vote on just yet, but we'll see.

These are ... interesting reads. Why cant Jade or Mirdo be Indie? They don't really seem to have a connection to NP or IE and you still marked them as scum. Especially with Jade here, because he was even attacking NP if I remember correctly.

This is the reason I think rainy is likely the indie, if indeed exists, because they usually be those who start talking about indies. + this from Superheroes where he was indie:

Good point, though I did start talking a little bit about indies here but I dont know if that really counts:

I dont think he is scum because of all the tunneling against NP but he could still be Indie

• He could also be a scum that just want to initiate paranoia to the town scaring us with the existence of an indie. but if an indie does exist, anyone remember the last time an indie has dangerous ability in a small game?

Last game there were 2 indies and Dry Bones could have been very dangerous and I guess it was small.

 

[GM DracLord]

Last game there were 2 indies and Dry Bones could have been very dangerous and I guess it was small.

I meant dangerous as in killing ability either instance or slowly. Since if there is an indie here and he or she doesn't have this kind of lethal ability, we are off better eliminating the scumeteam first.

 

[bbninjas]

Just a gut feeling.

Can you think of any reasons for a gut feeling? There isn't much you can do beyond that, beside knowing where you stand.

An indie could easily have a lethal Ability regardless of the last time a lethal Ability was given to an indie; it's not really something that you can predict.

 

[Scattered mind]

mordacazir (town) - was NP's first 'pressure'. There's distinct differences between this pressure and NP's RVS vote on IE, which is more evidence for morda being town. morda is also questions and scumhunting well, which is pro-town.

Yeah, I agree ##UNVOTE

rainy (town) - caused the momentum on NP to begin. Is contributing okay (albiet dropping off occassionally); if scum, has had an abnormal skill jump since his more recent game as scum (compare to his lurking behaviour of past).

Agree plus he's probably the indie. Second possibility is morda if he posted first about it, but the way rainy did it plus how it was similar to his play as indie in Superheroes makes him more possible.

jade (neutral, leaning town) - Ignored the Celever vs NP when first posted (could be a scumtell), however later said that NP (and Celever) are probably scumbuddies, which is an interesting thing for Jade to say if scum. Not at all excluding the possibility of scum here, but really @Jadethepokemontrainer needs to post more, because them not being around has made things difficult.

That could be just an attempt to confuse us, and I don't think it is out of the ordinary to blame a scumbuddy together with a townie to spam WIFOM thoughts. Jade is also extremely scummy for not being active at all and still trying to appear helpful, like the time she popped out to answer my question because I voted her.

Prof P/GM Drac (neutral, leaning town) - Was clearly against the NP lynch, so obvious link is obvious. Doesn't make them any townier; I think this is fairly neutral. Leaning town due to Drac's role primarily.

Why? considering you thought he was scummy before that, what made you change your mind about his role? I don't remember him claiming and we only know about the QT you two share.

mirdo (leaning town) - Seems to have genuine frustration regarding the Celever vs NP thing, although it's feelings that I could see both alignments having. Leaning town for reasons previous stated about how their posts come across.

Been there done that. Town until new evidence says otherwise.

HW/Jesi/Camo (neutral, leaning scum) - HW was adament to not really comment on things, which is weird, and also wishy-washyness regarding NP. NP ends up pressuring HW for a bit (although ends up settling on lorde), which reminds me of how lorde and I played this past game (both of us were scum).

He did explain the logic behind him not voting, and I found him to be very consistent with his answer, so I don't understand this point.

##VOTE:Jade