Finished Mafia XXXVI: Werewolves of the Interspectaculars ~ Game Over! Congratulations, Interspectaculars!

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At this stage in the day I'm changing my vote: under 24 hours to vote and I'm still the top lynch due to sky's double vote weight.

##unvote quaking
##vote: Skyleaf


I understand the potential scumminess of this move but with the low activity and not many lynch options I'd rather see Slyleaf lynched than myself.
 
Sky has played the same amount of games as KX.

I would also be fine with a Jabber lynch, but I'll keep my vote where it is for now.
 
##VOTE: Jabber

So, I waited to see how this case on King X turned out, and if Jabber would follow through with it. He's tunneling with poor evidence and doing the same thing as I did to King X last game. I'm building a post now to provide the evidence on Jabber and comment on a few other things.
 
Even if it makes me look like eager-to-please scum. Otherwise I'd just look like a panicky scum.
Other players have mentioned this already, but I'm going to repeat it. If you are town, "looking like scum" should NOT be the overarching law over your play.

When under suspicion, my playstyle is to lurk, read, re-read, re-re-read, etc. until I find a good way to reply.
I do not like how you are paying attention to your play style like this. Scum do this, town should not.

While I agree that Skyleaf is scummy, I'm also cautious that they're an easy lynch and someone scum can push quite easily. I'd like to see if they improve from AtE and lurking to actual contribution.

Ok as for the double vote it's Skyleaf. There's a vote count where pmj, frosstoise and sky are on me with 4 votes, and now sky and Luis are on me with 3 votes.
Saying this is pro-scum not pro-town.

Day 1 so fun woop woop.

Did I miss something as to why Camoclone isn't Camo posting?
I noticed this as well. Was he posting earlier in the day and I missed it?
Why did you both magically appear from inactivity to comment on someone else's inactivity?
 
Yeah... I did wonder if it was a pro-scum thing to post... But then I was so proud of myself for solving the case that I posted it anyway....
 
I'm gonna look back into Jabber too, yep I know the skyleaf lynch is an easy one, but I'm only the wagon right now to ensure my own survival! I'll read back after my walk :)
 
I'm gonna look back into Jabber too, yep I know the skyleaf lynch is an easy one, but I'm only the wagon right now to ensure my own survival! I'll read back after my walk :)

And you're not making yourself look any better. Voting someone not because you think they're scummy, but to save your own skin. Quickly jumping on Jabber as soon as interest in his case is shown. These are not towny things.
 
And you're not making yourself look any better. Voting someone not because you think they're scummy, but to save your own skin. Quickly jumping on Jabber as soon as interest in his case is shown. These are not towny things.

Yeah maybe it was a scummy post, my bad.
But seriously I'd prefer he get lynched over me, hence my vote. And because I knew the skyleaf lynch wasn't ideal and the potential of a scummy person came up I was prepared to do what I could to help, which if you think about it is kinda townie ;)
 
So, to the problem with Jabberwock, I'll first take a look at the case on King X. It's very stretchy, especially as it is built around a lot of RVS votes that are being looked into far too much. To bring the case to its core:

  • Bandwagoning on easy lynches
  • OMGUS'ing (minor point; occurred during RVS)
  • Backpedalling
  • Randomly unvoting and not revoting elsewhere
  • Contradiction
I've bolded all the points based on RVS and voting patterns of the RVS stage, and King X explained (perhaps not the best) that Jabber misinterpreted his post as a contradiction here:

You missed the entire point of the post. If you read it carefully you would notice I said that I have no reason to vote, not you, not anyone else, just me. I didn't think SS was panicky, and I also didn't think PMJ's post was unjust. Where's the contradiction?

Of course, all cases coming out of RVS have to being from somewhere, so the weak case isn't the problem. Rather, it is very scummy that Jabber continued to push. He ignores much of King X's points, and grasps straws as shown in his focus on RVS and when he contrasts RVS votes to King X's later votes (which are not the same) in the "major contradictions". I think what King X said sums up the King X case pretty well:
Shame on me for not voting randomly, but also shame on me because I finally voted randomly? This is literally the same argument bb tried to make last game because I wasn't playing optimally to your standards.

Normally Jabber is a bit more logical than this - he won't normally push for such flimsy cases. I think the tunneling/pushing of Jabberwock is him as scum afraid that dropping the case would invoke "backpedalling" accusations. In reality the opposite is true, as town players drop cases quite often, and this assumption is one that many-a-scum make when trying to "appear town". In fact, it is a trap I've fallen into multiple times as scum.

The other thing is that most of Jabberwock's posts are RVS, or either completely or virtually completely focused on King X, with only a small portion actually interested in other cases or discussions (another indication). From those, there is another thing that in particular suggests a mafia alignment, which is this:

@Everyone on the Sky wagon: Sky isn't scummy. Stop pushing the easy lynch.
I can't remember if someone has already mentioned this, but this is the type of comments mafia tend to make, especially if the accused is actually town. It is an effortless and pretty much reason-less way to defend a lynch. If both are a scum, it defends a scumbuddy without being too vocal, and if the accused is town, it gives the towncred scum jump on. It's also a little hypocritical, as King X pointed out when giving his defense.
 
The very fact that we're all seeing these numerous and obvious scummy flaws on her response raises the probability of her not being scum --- a scum would have a more cautious reply that would have specifically avoided all those, considering she's a newbie and would most likely be getting coached replies. I'm putting aside that theory of mine for now and consider her vote on SS as a newbie town bandwagon move. I'm going to watch out for future posts in case she might slip. However, with how close we are to day end and the placement of the current votes, there might not be enough time to pursue another suspect.

... Which is a shame because this case on Jabberwock is really convincing. It's been said that Jabberwock is acting like bbninjas did last game, as scum, but I would add that Jabberwock IMO is normally not this aggressive on pursuing a case, not to mention that Day 1 RVS votes aren't concrete as far as evidence goes. It's seriously looking like he's trying to paint KX as scum and presenting interpretations of his Day 1 votes and posts in a scummy manner, rather than the other way around where the posts would hint and lead you to logically conclude that the player is scummy.

I'd vote for him now, and hopefully he responds to the pressure before Day ends, but if not, I might return my vote to where it was when that time arrives.

##UNVOTE
##FIRE: Jabberwock

As for SS, I think he's in self-preservation mode, which is what town close to lynch does more than scum (I think scum tend to AtE or threaten bad things resulting from their lynch).
 
##unvote

ok, thanks a lot, Xenforo :'v I'll read the cases and vote later if I'm here on time.
 
There's plenty of sense? Are you reading the wrong thread? Maybe you're reading a much older game where I didn't make sense?
This is just stupid. SS is still pretty scummy.

Why did you both magically appear from inactivity to comment on someone else's inactivity?
This is an excellent point considering IE hasn't actually made any relevant posts. Literally his only two posts were concerning my inactivity.

Now let's take a look at Squirtle Squad.
 
##vote: bbninjas

For getting me lynched last game for dumb reasons!
RVS.

##unvote: bb

Now which one of the mindless bandwagoners shall I omgus vote for ;)

Wow... So I just counted, I'm actually on 6 votes with 9 to lynch...

Feel free to unvote now :)

I wouldn't... Though it would be on par with why I got lynched last game... Same reasoning :p
Gotta love the use of AtE smileys.

I was gonna choose someone else to randomly vote but then remembered I hate just randomly voting... I mean you could understand when I make a random vote and 7 people decided to vote me for it...
Ummmm ok. Thanks for letting us know.

I mean ultimately there was no reason to panic. There was no case on me, plus no good town aligned player would seriously allow a caseless lynch to occur.
Of course I did make that post about people unvoting simply because any could have vote alterations and I'd hate to get lynched by some careless person throwing around RVS votes.


And yep @bbninjas it was my vote on you and it's response that reminded me of my dislike for RVS. I decided to join in today because I don't often vote in RVS.

I know? I said "why would I panic when there's no case on me? I didn't panic?

I posted what you thought was panicking because if vote alterations did exist then I would have been much closer to a lynch, and we now know that there is a double vote weight.


Yeah, personally I reckon he was just speculating the existence of a double vote, as opposed to a slip, I'd probably rather him subbed out first to see what his replacement does before lynching him.

Then again it's Day 1 so...

No there were 6? Unless I miscounted, I'll go back.
So this is where he gets sloppy. Somehow he notices Skyleaf's double vote but not how he counted PMJ's vote after his post.

Here 6 votes, plus skyleaf voted twice.

Oh was it? Must have just counted skyleafs twice, my bad. ;)

I just went back and quoted all the posts that had a vote on me, I was in a rush and didn't read the other posts, otherwise duh I wouldn't have quoted PMjs vote.

Unlikely but true, I did overlook. When I counted the votes on me I looked only at the part of the post that had vote: SS. I didn't go through and read the posts, nor did I look at the username. I saw a heap of votes did a lightning fast count to See how many votes and posted.

Instead of wasting time with me why don't you go overlook the people who bandwagoned, the fact I got to 5 votes as quick as I did is pretty dumb.

I don't think skyleaf voted twice? When I did the initial count, after the mindless people bandwagoned mindlessly I quickly counted and saw 6 instances (not counting PMjs) of vote: ss. In my haste I didn't notice that two of those instances were the same person. Lumping PMjs vote was merely an accident.

There's plenty of sense? Are you reading the wrong thread? Maybe you're reading a much older game where I didn't make sense?
So he acknowledges that the votes were RVS but he wants to look at anyone who joined in? That's pretty OMGUS'ing. Also instead of looking into it himself he wants us to look into it?

The last couple of sentences are really silly. Just read them and you should realize how bad they are.

That vote count would suggest so much vote alterations... Mind you I'm thinking a lot of them are errors...

Of everything suggested day 1 the skyleaf stuff is probably the most convincing to me atm, I'm really not sold on the KX stuff..

NP taking 2 weeks of absence is interesting, as well as frosstoise's early subbing... Both could have potentially scummy meanings but this is purely wifom...

Nothing from @Ice Espeon yet?

haha! Yeah I forgot he subbed out...

Skyleaf always signs up and is always inactive... I'd happily lynch him but he's not worth it... He'll just get subbed out.
What kind of logic is this? You don't want him to be questioned because he always subs out. Let's go back to an earlier post. Check out what he said about skyleaf.

Of everything suggested day 1 the skyleaf stuff is probably the most convincing to me atm, I'm really not sold on the KX stuff..
He thinks skyleaf is scummy but doesn't want to look into it for some reason.

Hmmm I don't like much of this post... Don't unvote me just cos people ask you too.

Ok.

You've said it already thAt you don't want to lynch me so realistically you should have unvoted by now.

But you just told him not to unvote just because people ask him to. Yet you just basically asked him to unvote.

Don't let people tell what you to do because you're playing blindly. You've got a vote and an opinion so use them!

What does the first sentence even mean? Ok good pep talk.

A town aligned player shouldn't worry about looking scummy because ultimately they are still town aligned. The more you say you worry about appearing scummy the more you look scummy.

Anyways: @everyone else I'm still the majority lynch and there's less than 24 hours of this day...

Also @PikaMasterJesi im on 4 votes with only 2 people voting me, is this correct?
This is a nasty one so I'll use bold.


Ok as for the double vote it's Skyleaf. There's a vote count where pmj, frosstoise and sky are on me with 4 votes, and now sky and Luis are on me with 3 votes.

##vote: quakingpunch you are usually way more active than this plus so far today your minimal posts have barely contained anything. This is unusual for you.
Going after such a weak case with only 24 hours left and being the prime candidate is pretty ballsy. I'll give you that.

Edit: though if skyleaf continues to be worried about looking scummy then my vote will change.

@Skyleaf2000 you can come and unvote now.
LOL! Let's go back into our time machine once again.

Don't unvote me just cos people ask you too.

She's signed up for heaps of games but technically hasn't played any of them. I think she is still considered a new player.

At this stage in the day I'm changing my vote: under 24 hours to vote and I'm still the top lynch due to sky's double vote weight.

##unvote quaking
##vote: Skyleaf


I understand the potential scumminess of this move but with the low activity and not many lynch options I'd rather see Slyleaf lynched than myself.

Yeah... I did wonder if it was a pro-scum thing to post... But then I was so proud of myself for solving the case that I posted it anyway....
but but but didn't he say earlier that a town-aligned player shouldn't worry about looking scummy?
A town aligned player shouldn't worry about looking scummy because ultimately they are still town aligned. The more you say you worry about appearing scummy the more you look scummy.

I'm gonna look back into Jabber too, yep I know the skyleaf lynch is an easy one, but I'm only the wagon right now to ensure my own survival! I'll read back after my walk :)

Yeah maybe it was a scummy post, my bad.
But seriously I'd prefer he get lynched over me, hence my vote. And because I knew the skyleaf lynch wasn't ideal and the potential of a scummy person came up I was prepared to do what I could to help, which if you think about it is kinda townie ;)
When I think about it is kind of scummy that you are drawing attention to every little thing that can be perceived as townie.


;) ;) ;)

##VOTE: SQUIRTLE SQUAD
Claim please.
 
This is an excellent point considering IE hasn't actually made any relevant posts. Literally his only two posts were concerning my inactivity.

I only mentioned it because I hadn't seen anyone else do so and I wondered if I had missed something.
 
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