Rogue Deck Discussion
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I'm not sure if one would consider this deck Rogue or not, but a Round deck has some viability now! I took one to my locals yesterday and came out at 2nd place, surprising quite a few people including myself. I went against a Ho-oh Deck, Emboar deck, and 2 FluffyChomp decks. Ho-oh deck was a stretch, we went to game 3 on that, the Emboar deck was kind of a bad match up on their part, and FluffyChomp gave me the most trouble. It goes way too fast for me to properly set up, and Mach Cut just gets rid of any DCE I attach to Seismitoad to even attempt to keep pace with it. Naturally, you got to stop the Gibles as soon as they hit the field if possible to have a chance. The one I lost to had Rare Candies in it as well, speeding that process up.
Your match ups probably had something to do with it. It doesn't sound like you played against anything mainstream. Naturally, if everyone is playing rogues, then a rogue deck will win. That's not saying it isn't a good deck though. I think one of my friends who was playing the Exploud version of it placed well this weekend.
I invented a troll deck that uses Carnivine, Sableye, and Garbodor with a Darkrai tech. It's ultra flexible, using Carnivine to drag up and poison, Sableye to recycle Hammers, Pinsir to both remove energy and lock things active while you do damage (because most of the damage in this deck will be done via poison), and Garbodor to shut off powers when necessary. It doesn't seem like it would work on paper, but it's actually very good at running your opponent out of resources. It has good matchups against Keldeo/Blastoise, Plasma, Genesect/Virizion, most rogues, Big Basics, and other troll decks. Haven't had anybody good to test against for Darkrai, though.
Like I said, it doesn't seem like it should work on paper, but it's actually quite good. To be honest, it started out not even trying to win, it just evolved through testing and modification. Thoughts?
Like I said, it doesn't seem like it should work on paper, but it's actually quite good. To be honest, it started out not even trying to win, it just evolved through testing and modification. Thoughts?
Foxtrot145 said:
I feel like you copied me...
@Camo: I would've played it for regionals except catchers instead of carnivine and no darkrai if I was able to go. Nowadays that's probably how I'd run it, if at all.
So is Quad Shaymin EX bad still? It could definitely make a killing against decks like Darkrai and could run Life Dew to let you use four Shaymin. Synthesis seems like a good set up attack as well, and Jirachi allows for consistent N drop when you need it.
grantm1999 said:
Probably not, since a friend and I made this a while back. Like, when Catcher's errata was first announced.
Camoclone - Games usually take 30-40 minutes, because by the time you're doing direct damage (Pinsir) all your opponent does is draw/pass. I've asked the opinions of the best players in the two areas I play in, and they all say that it's a cool idea, but won't work. Then we play a few games and they change their minds.
I can send you a list if you care to take a look.
blargh257 said:
I don't think it was ever "Bad" it just had issues with catcher, because it was hard to set up more then 1 Shaymin at a time. but now that catcher is effectively removed, and Energy Switch is back in the format, the deck could make a small name for its self. not BDIF but still could take a few cities/LC.
Mora said:
Yeah you are probably right on that. Just yesterday it didn't do to well in the tournament, I could never set up on time due to bad hands consistently (plus different deck matchups pretty much). If you got no Tympoles out first turn, its very hard to catch up on time to do anything. There is potential in this deck, but I need to work with it more first.
Round is very interesting. However, have you considered a Wigglytuff/Meloetta build?
But with Wigglytuff, you don't hit for enough damage. By the way, my friend placed 4th at Battle Roads with an Exploud/Melloetta deck I let him borrow. I have no idea what he played during the tournament, but I did watch him beat a Darkrai that got 4th at a Cities this weekend.
Mora is right on Wigglytuff, plus its quite squishy to boot. Seismitoad can do good damage for just 2 colorless energy, and can knock out anything in the format with 6 Rounders in play with Silver Bangle (knocks out Virizion EX at 190 damage), but that is a good scenario. Exploud does have a lot more damage output, and I was considering that deck at first, but the energy cost is so high to fuel consistently! Plasma Badge and Plasma Energy can work, but it won't be worth it when your opponent can just Hammer it away and possibly fuel a Driflim going in hot. Ether could work, but its risky to use it when it possibly won't work out for you and be dead weight. I found Seismitoad to work the best, besides...Palpitoad has Round as well, so that just adds to the damage early. That helps out Round out a bit, because you don't solely have to rely on Meloetta for extra damage.
I also have a friend who plays Round. He plays Exploud, using the first attack to discard all of the items in the opponent's hand (which helps against Enhanced Hammer) and round for four C to do 50x. It's a bit slower, but it's a beast when it gets rolling.
My very first draft of Round was using Exploud and Ho-oh EX with Energy Switch as an energy acceleration, but it seemed too clunky to try out. I guess Exploud is at least worth trying out for me to see if it works well for me.
All this talk about round decks. Lets not forget lugia/togekiss, Flygon/dusknoir, and my favorite Cradily. These are all fun rogue decks that don't play bad at all against meta decks. Sure they have their downsides such as long set ups, but once they get going its really fun to play and can be competitve at the same time!
There is one deck I've seen around my locals that had Flygon, Dusknoir, and Accelgor. Attack with Accelgor, put Flygon up front and Sandstorm ability goes off. Re-arrange damage with Dusknoir for knockouts or aid in them. Just a spin on the usually GothLock deck, but its interesting for sure.
The only thing you would need to change is the Gothitelle tree and you pretty much have the deck right there. Might need some additional tweaks to fit the strategy better, but its pretty much copy paste.
Ninetales / Amoongus was always a over-hyped rogue deck I use to play back when I could stand the TCG. I loved it but Catch would ruin it or bench damage, now with Mr.Mine and Catcher nerf what does everyone think of Ninetales / Amoongus now?
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