Discussion The New "Safeguard" Abilities are Broken...

[Fayld]

They dont remove that at all. Because including Alolan Ninetales means you still have to work with just 4 Alolan Vulpix to make it all happen, all the while Alolan Ninetales GX is a greater allround Pokemon that will win you the game.

I personally do not think the format currently asks you if you can handle Safeguard. All it asks of you is if your certain you'd only want to rely on EX and GX and solely on EX and GX. Most decks do not have to do this. Most decks should run Guzma anyway. Again nobody currently is playing just 4 Alolan Ninetales for it's as much as a risk for the Ninetales player as it is for the opponent. 110HP is relatively easy to deal with for any non-EX/GX. It's attack is abysmal.

If anything Tapu Lele GX is the prime example of a card that alters deck construction, for there is not a single competitive deck in the format that wouldn't want to run it.
Drawing a paralel from Ancient Power to Safeguard really makes little to no sence. Ancient Power prefents some decks from doing anything. Safeguard at Alolan Ninetales and the upcomming Hoopa with Safeguard really has nothing more to do as being a wall.

To me Safeguard remains a fine balanced Power that ensures that multiple cards are a viable consideration that do not have EX or GX behind their name. This is a good thing because it keeps rogue decks viable aswell.

I believe you should say "nobody is right now." We won't know how powerful safeguard pokemon are until there are some tournaments with them. I *do* know how much harder it will be to kill them without Hex Maniac though. It will be similar to facing a Jolteon EX deck with big basics and they put one Jolteon out and get it powered up and leave their bench empty. Can you beat it with a big basics deck? Yeah, if you thought to tech Ranger. If you didn't? Toast. It is the same concept. It isn't a great deck idea to run a full on safeguard deck. That said, those decks do exist and if you are unfortunate enough to walk into one, chances are you aren't walking away with a victory because anyone good enough to build a competitive safeguard deck is also good enough to work over every halfhearted attempt to counter it. You know, kind of like how Wobbuffet Jolteon took 2nd at Roanoke...aka the regional quad lapras won.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I don't think you really get the point of good design or the advantage GX designs have over EX. What I believe to be the case is that GX Pokemon are actually fantastic designs, as they are both powerful but not basic exclusive either. The advantage here is that you can expect them to have HP, high attacks and even a Power here and there.
Pokemon never dug themselves a hole with EX, all they did is speed up some formats. What I see as a continueing trend in Pokemon is that we have had slower years and faster years. To me the GX era will be actually an example of an eventually slightly slower format. However as long as EXs are still in the format the difference in speed isn't as huge as it was for example to switch to Diamond and Pearls format, where at one point no EX was available.

Practically all decks run cards where ideally an opponent has no awnser to it. Sometimes this is in the form of a Pokemon being able to continiously 1HKO. In other cases it's in the form of being unable to get KO'd. Alolan Ninetales is just an example of the latter. So was Wailord EX.
What you seem to ignore is that Alolan Ninetales actually doesn't bring more as the Power. With this I mean that it's a poor attacker and actually can get KO'd by many Basic non-EX, non-GX Pokemon.

Lastly Hex Maniac isn't even required to adress this. In standard we have Guzma and Guzma allows you to bypass this defence completely. The Alolan Ninetales might return after your KO to active but due to it being such a poor attacker and Alolan Ninetales GX being such a good one I can assure you that litterly no top competititve deck will ever run more as 2. It's a wall that does not awnser every legit card in this format. The format gives a huge ammount of awnsers into Alolan Ninetales, luckily the format isn't just EX's and GX's being the only viable cards...

Noticed how I never referenced Pokemon-GX. If A. Ninetales and Hoopa only blocked Pokemon-GX, it would be fine because Pokemon-EX would still be a option and it doesn't unbalance Exapnded, where Safeguard is a option to blocking Pokemon-EX. Wailord doesn't have an Ability that stops things from hitting it. It's just a big body that is hard to take down. Wailord was a thing because of how fast the game got and how good disruption was backed by a big body. Lastly, were you around when Quad Suicune was a thing? How about when decks like Jolteon-EX/Regice were around, forcing Pokemon Ranger to be made, which still wasn't effective. Guzma does nothing if your opponent just drops A. Ninetales and that's it. By not blocking Pokemon-EX as well, it lowers the likelihood decks like that are made.

 

[Duo]

I've been sort of following this thread for a while and figured I should give some input.

Alolan Ninetales' ability is ridiculous. Rather, it's ridiculous that it comes in on the same rotation that Hex Maniac goes out. I can fully understand Fayld's concerns, because you honestly could just run 4/4 Vulpix/Ninetales and 2/2 Remoraid/Octillery and even if someone has one or two non-GX/EX Pokemon teched in, 3-4 Ninetales will out live 1 tech card.

That being said, I also don't think Hex Manic would even be able to solve the problem. If someone was annoying enough to run a completely non EX/GX deck, you need to take 6 prizes before your opponent knocks out 3 of your GX over time. Basically what I'm trying to say is that you'd need one Hex Maniac for every Alolan Ninetales, unless you're running something like Darkrai for the bench pierce multi kill (I don't even know if that maths out, I just know it was/is a thing) or the obvious solution people have already brought up, Garbodor.

In a nut shell, here's what I think it boils down to the following:

- If an Alolan Ninetales GX player has teched in 1 or 2, you probably don't have to do anything about your deck list to beat them anyway. With Tapu Lele GX and Alolan Ninetales GX as vulnerable targets in those decks, BUS Ninetales is only there as a shield during set up, not an unbreakable wall. Shoutouts to ya boi, Guzma.

- Blowing deck space on Garbodor for the very very small chance of running into a pure Safeguard deck is logical but highly undesireable. Not to mention that a full safeguard deck would probably be running plenty of field blower knowing that it's the only major out to them.

-If you see a pure Alolan Ninetales deck, you're probably just going to scoop and go play against someone who actually enjoys playing the game.

Like, here's a decklist that I just thought of on the spot.

Pokemon - 15
Alolan Ninetales BUS x4
Alolan Vulpix x4
Octillery x2
Remoraid x2
Tapu Lele GX x2
Glaceon EX x1

Supporters - 14
Brigette x1
Sycamore x4
N x4
Guzma x2
Acerola x3

Items - 17
Aqua Patch x4
Ultra Ball x4
Field Blower x3
Fighting Fury Belt x3
Float Stone x3

Energy - 14

DCE x3
Rainbow Energy x3
Water Energy x8

Keep Tapu Lele GX because you still want to turn 1 Brigette to plop 2 Vulpix/1 Remoraid on field to get started. Keep Octillery because it's only 1 prize to draw.

Glaceon gives the deck more damage and another form of walling.

Less Guzma because you don't really care about what your active is or what your opponent's active is. There as a just in case.

3 Acerola, goes together with 3 Rainbow Energy and 3 Fighting Fury Belts. Fighting Fury Belt gives Lele/Glaceon the HP they need to not get OHKO'd out of the blue, then you scoop them back up with all the stuff you had attached to do it all again. Rainbow Energy lets you put compulsory damage on your 2 prize mons and just scoop them back up out of harm's way. You still get all the benefits of using them without slowing down, and you can initiate the full lock whenever you want.

I'm sure if someone put some actual thought into this, they could make an actually good deck list that would make anyone want to scoop.

It is an issue, so hopefully we see some solutions in the next expansion.

 

[Mora]

You know which Weavile I'm talking about right?

Yeah, and I agree that you'd be dumb not to include Exeggcute, but at the same time if I want to play it without Exeggcute, who's gonna stop me. I'm not sure if I can relate it back to my point though; I was pretty tired last night. But my point is this. If you play Exeggcute in your list for consistency, or because the deck doesn't really function well without it, you're going to start with it, and you're going to get donked. You should just be aware that those are the consequences for playing with Eggs. It is what it is.

Also, you can replace M Blastoise with any other Pokemon-EX you like.

I guess I can see it with Aqua Patch, but I'm still skeptical. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, I've been out of the loop for a while.

I agree poor deck building will be punished and exploited by the better player but if someone played a M Gardevoir-EX deck (a highly competitive deck) and lost this new Safeguard, which should have never referenced Pokemon-EX to begin with, then you can't say their deck was bad. Also, Prizing your techs (which none would exist post rotation) also will yield the same results.

I guess that's just where we disagree. In my opinion, part of deck building is thinking things like, what do I do against x, y, and z. What do I do against Safeguarders. Part of the game is deciding whether or not to play a deck that doesn't have any easy answers to one of the decks out there. Whether or not to play that Xerneas BREAK to deal with Safeguarders. I mean a lot of decks have a match up or two they struggle with. Whether it's because of Safeguarders or something else doesn't really matter.

And I wouldn't say their deck was bad, just that it didn't have a good reply to Safeguard and so as a result it lost.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Yeah, and I agree that you'd be dumb not to include Exeggcute, but at the same time if I want to play it without Exeggcute, who's gonna stop me. I'm not sure if I can relate it back to my point though; I was pretty tired last night. But my point is this. If you play Exeggcute in your list for consistency, or because the deck doesn't really function well without it, you're going to start with it, and you're going to get donked. You should just be aware that those are the consequences for playing with Eggs. It is what it is.

Not playing Exeggcute in Weavile is the kind of thing I would punish because at any given point in time, my opponent is going to have a hard time getting big damage because they have 120 less damage each turn. If I choose to run it for consistency, I would accept the risk of starting with it. It was also the reason I never ran Shaymin-EX when it was the thing to do. I choose to run Octillery because it wasn't a two Prize Bench sitter but I built the deck accordingly.

I didn't think, in a best of one format it was worth the risk of getting donked for the sake of discarding one less card for Ultra Ball. It's a godsend when it works but in a 12 round tournament, you can expect to start with it once.

I guess I can see it with Aqua Patch, but I'm still skeptical. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, I've been out of the loop for a while.

It's a 220 HP body with a three energy attack for 120 and 30 snipe to two of your opponent's Benched Pokemon with a lot of water support. I used it as an example because it isn't a terrible deck going into rotation.

I guess that's just where we disagree. In my opinion, part of deck building is thinking things like, what do I do against x, y, and z. What do I do against Safeguarders. Part of the game is deciding whether or not to play a deck that doesn't have any easy answers to one of the decks out there. Whether or not to play that Xerneas BREAK to deal with Safeguarders. I mean a lot of decks have a match up or two they struggle with. Whether it's because of Safeguarders or something else doesn't really matter.

And I wouldn't say their deck was bad, just that it didn't have a good reply to Safeguard and so as a result it lost.

This same thing is true for every other deck. Volcanion-EX is a popular deck so do I not play Metagross-GX, another popular deck because of Weakness? Counters are so bad and unreliable in Pokemon that players still used Night March in events where Karen and Oricorio existed. Vespiquen still was used despite Oricorio but it doesn't make them bad players because they didn't tech Machoke.

There are always things you have to consider when building a deck and a lot of people choose decks for many different reason. No one plays the same decks and the game needs to cater to that.

 

[JDA]

I believe you should say "nobody is right now." We won't know how powerful safeguard pokemon are until there are some tournaments with them. I *do* know how much harder it will be to kill them without Hex Maniac though. It will be similar to facing a Jolteon EX deck with big basics and they put one Jolteon out and get it powered up and leave their bench empty. Can you beat it with a big basics deck? Yeah, if you thought to tech Ranger. If you didn't? Toast. It is the same concept. It isn't a great deck idea to run a full on safeguard deck. That said, those decks do exist and if you are unfortunate enough to walk into one, chances are you aren't walking away with a victory because anyone good enough to build a competitive safeguard deck is also good enough to work over every halfhearted attempt to counter it. You know, kind of like how Wobbuffet Jolteon took 2nd at Roanoke...aka the regional quad lapras won.

Without doubt I can tell you how powerful Safeguard Pokemon are right now. If you bother to run something that is an alternate non-GX/EX evolution your going to beat it, hands down. Again there is very little numbers to worry about aswell, as Alolan Vulpix searches for it using more as 2 per deck is causing unrequired redundancy.
I cant say the concept is the same as Jolteon EX either, as there are many more basic pokemon as there are GX and EX. In addition the prime reason Safeguard is part of the format has to do by not soley having a format be dominated by GX and EX.

The main point that remains is that Pokemon always had soft locks and the format was never dominated by them. All it does is force you to consider this Pokemon while building decks. This applies as much to any current EX and GX. I cant see something that occurs in each format as being a bad thing whatsoever.

Noticed how I never referenced Pokemon-GX. If A. Ninetales and Hoopa only blocked Pokemon-GX, it would be fine because Pokemon-EX would still be a option and it doesn't unbalance Exapnded, where Safeguard is a option to blocking Pokemon-EX. Wailord doesn't have an Ability that stops things from hitting it. It's just a big body that is hard to take down. Wailord was a thing because of how fast the game got and how good disruption was backed by a big body. Lastly, were you around when Quad Suicune was a thing? How about when decks like Jolteon-EX/Regice were around, forcing Pokemon Ranger to be made, which still wasn't effective. Guzma does nothing if your opponent just drops A. Ninetales and that's it. By not blocking Pokemon-EX as well, it lowers the likelihood decks like that are made.

Again you seem to refuse to understand that this actually opens up room for Pokemon who are non-GX/EX to excist. To date I have not found any reasoning from you as to why you think this is a good thing. HP and Powers who allow you to not be KO-ed are common, this is another thing. I never mentioned quad Suicune being a thing, if your opponent is just going to drop Alolan Ninetales and you lose the game because of that your running a poor deck. As there is currently no deck that is forced to solely be ran with GX/EX.

If you can't fantom the awnsers available, consider Xerneas BREAK for Gardevoir GX based decks, consider Greninja for any water based deck, consider regular Volcanion for any Volcanion EX based decks. There are so many awnser in this format that the concept behind the discussion pales in comparison to the competitive options the format offers you.

Alolan Ninetales is good because Alolan Vulpix is good, without doubt 1 A. Ninetales will not win the game and without doubt you'll never see many more as 2, it's a tech, not a gameplan. The upcomming Hoopa might be teched as a single Pokemon in decks, again it's a wall that is extremely unlikely to win the game, unless for whatever reason you forcefully decide to handicap yourself by solely playing EX/GX.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Without doubt I can tell you how powerful Safeguard Pokemon are right now. If you bother to run something that is an alternate non-GX/EX evolution your going to beat it, hands down. Again there is very little numbers to worry about aswell, as Alolan Vulpix searches for it using more as 2 per deck is causing unrequired redundancy.
I cant say the concept is the same as Jolteon EX either, as there are many more basic pokemon as there are GX and EX. In addition the prime reason Safeguard is part of the format has to do by not soley having a format be dominated by GX and EX.

The main point that remains is that Pokemon always had soft locks and the format was never dominated by them. All it does is force you to consider this Pokemon while building decks. This applies as much to any current EX and GX. I cant see something that occurs in each format as being a bad thing whatsoever.



Again you seem to refuse to understand that this actually opens up room for Pokemon who are non-GX/EX to excist. To date I have not found any reasoning from you as to why you think this is a good thing. HP and Powers who allow you to not be KO-ed are common, this is another thing. I never mentioned quad Suicune being a thing, if your opponent is just going to drop Alolan Ninetales and you lose the game because of that your running a poor deck. As there is currently no deck that is forced to solely be ran with GX/EX.

If you can't fantom the awnsers available, consider Xerneas BREAK for Gardevoir GX based decks, consider Greninja for any water based deck, consider regular Volcanion for any Volcanion EX based decks. There are so many awnser in this format that the concept behind the discussion pales in comparison to the competitive options the format offers you.

Alolan Ninetales is good because Alolan Vulpix is good, without doubt 1 A. Ninetales will not win the game and without doubt you'll never see many more as 2, it's a tech, not a gameplan. The upcomming Hoopa might be teched as a single Pokemon in decks, again it's a wall that is extremely unlikely to win the game, unless for whatever reason you forcefully decide to handicap yourself by solely playing EX/GX.

I get what you're saying but you aren't getting what I'm saying. Why do Pokemon in Sun and Moon need immunity from Pokemon-EX where Pokemon-EX as a mechanic was dumped. The other things you seem to not get is not everyone wants to play Volcanion or Greninja BREAK. Go ahead and put Greninja in a Lapras-GX deck and tell me how that works for you. Not everyone wants to play Xerneas. The goal isn't to restrict what people play. Since you seem to have the answer for this, what do I, as a person playing M Pidgeot-EX put in my deck? My deck is forced to be EX/GX based. I have things I can do but they aren't effective and any person running a deck designed to prevent play will be able to handle opponents trying to get around them. It's why decks like Vileplume win. It's why Archeops works. You can have the counter play but it still doesn't matter.

 

[Dark Espeon]

I get what you're saying but you aren't getting what I'm saying. Why do Pokemon in Sun and Moon need immunity from Pokemon-EX where Pokemon-EX as a mechanic was dumped. The other things you seem to not get is not everyone wants to play Volcanion or Greninja BREAK. Go ahead and put Greninja in a Lapras-GX deck and tell me how that works for you. Not everyone wants to play Xerneas. The goal isn't to restrict what people play. Since you seem to have the answer for this, what do I, as a person playing M Pidgeot-EX put in my deck? My deck is forced to be EX/GX based. I have things I can do but they aren't effective and any person running a deck designed to prevent play will be able to handle opponents trying to get around them. It's why decks like Vileplume win. It's why Archeops works. You can have the counter play but it still doesn't matter.

Oranguru seems to be a good answer to your Alolan Ninetales and Hoopa issue. Both need three energies to attack and have no more than HP 120. This means that Psychic will ohko the Safe Guard wall with ease and also makes the deck N-proof at the same time. I also assume that you will run either Guzma or Lysandre in the M Pidgeot EX deck in case the Safe Guard wall is simply put active after a Strafe attack. In that case you can knock out the hit and run attackers to draw prizes. Having to adjust ones deck to deal with certain card is part of the game and the adjustment does not seem too hard to make in this specific case.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Oranguru seems to be a good answer to your Alolan Ninetales and Hoopa issue. Both need three energies to attack and have no more than HP 120. This means that Psychic will ohko the Safe Guard wall with ease and also makes the deck N-proof at the same time. I also assume that you will run either Guzma or Lysandre in the M Pidgeot EX deck in case the Safe Guard wall is simply put active after a Strafe attack. In that case you can knock out the hit and run attackers to draw prizes. Having to adjust ones deck to deal with certain card is part of the game and the adjustment does not seem too hard to make in this specific case.

I use Octillery for my draw engine so Oranguru does no good for me. If I would attempt to build this Orangurn, they would KO it with A Ninetales GX, which would be the problem because these decks are capable of dealing with your one-of counter so any counter would need to be built into the deck. Also, they would need to have the energy on it for Psychic to work. It isn't a realistic tech.

 

[Fayld]

Oranguru seems to be a good answer to your Alolan Ninetales and Hoopa issue. Both need three energies to attack and have no more than HP 120. This means that Psychic will ohko the Safe Guard wall with ease and also makes the deck N-proof at the same time. I also assume that you will run either Guzma or Lysandre in the M Pidgeot EX deck in case the Safe Guard wall is simply put active after a Strafe attack. In that case you can knock out the hit and run attackers to draw prizes. Having to adjust ones deck to deal with certain card is part of the game and the adjustment does not seem too hard to make in this specific case.

It is a good answer to *one* ninetales or hoopa. It definitely isn't a good answer to *four* ninetales or hoopa. Again, this is pure theorymon at this point because I don't know of anyone prepping that deck (and think that person would get destroyed by Garb decks if they do). However, for non-Garb decks, the solution to something like quad hoopa isn't nearly as simple as this crew seems to want to make it. Ultimately, it is a niche deck list people are very unlikely to see so in reality it probably doesn't matter...until it does. My main issue is and has been the lack of a good way to really stop it in a deck like Metagross. It was my main issue last season when they rotated trainer based tool removal and left Garbotoxin Garbodor to reign supreme. It isn't that it is impossible to beat. It is that the game design is poor if you are going to introduce something without simultaneously providing at least some form of tech that can be played to mitigate it to some extent. That is my main issue with Trashalanche as an attack as well. Yes you can use fewer items...unless I am playing Garbodor and then I can use however many items I desire. I don't like game design like this. It doesn't make things "interesting". All it does is limit what people who aren't building Garbodor can realistically build while remaining competitive.

For all the "diversity" in deck building ideas we have had since GRI dropped, doesn't anyone find it the least bit interesting that 3 of the last 5 major tournaments have been won by Garbodor? That is bad set design that could have been mitigated with a simple supporter that allowed you to shuffle 5 cards back into your deck. That simple. But we didn't get that and the results are abundantly clear. You either play Garbodor or you are playing something sub optimal. That is likely to change with BUS and Gardevoir...but don't you find it interesting that the reason it is likely to change is because of a GX attack that lets you shuffle 10 cards back into your deck along with a massively powerful 1 energy attack and an outstanding ability? See, I find that interesting. 1 freaking set later, they designed an "answer" for a card they knew was overpowered when they dropped it.

That ties directly into this discussion. While I don't expect Ninetales or Hoopa to have even a 100th the amount of impact that that Garbodor had on the meta as a whole, they still present a problem that is likely to "conveniently" be fixed in a couple of sets should these cards happen to have more impact than expected. That same thing is going to happen when (and I definitely mean when) they reprint VS Seeker or create another card with a similar effect halfway through the 2018 season. It is a pattern and it is avoidable.

Long story short and as I have continued to say, I don't expect either card to be meta shaping. I do expect someone to come up with some stupidly annoying list that I run into online somewhere that makes me want to throw my freaking phone through a wall. And honestly, I can live with that. I simply don't think I should have to.

Edit: @21times I am looking at you with that last bit!

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I should also say that I don't think these decks will be a thing either but Quad Suicune was a thing and won events. Every time they made a card that said you can't do something, it became something worth noting.

 

[Mega Mewtwo]

You know which Weavile I'm talking about right? Also, you can replace M Blastoise with any other Pokemon-EX you like. If the deck is competent (keep in mind I'm talking about competitive builds), it doesn't mean the build was poorly put together because of designs. A deck doesn't have to play Exeggcute to still do what it wants at its core. A <insert EX mon here> needs that mon for its core gameplay to work.

I agree poor deck building will be punished and exploited by the better player but if someone played a M Gardevoir-EX deck (a highly competitive deck) and lost this new Safeguard, which should have never referenced Pokemon-EX to begin with, then you can't say their deck was bad. Also, Prizing your techs (which none would exist post rotation) also will yield the same results.



You're playing M Gardevoir-EX (Despair Ray) and a Hoopa is in the Active spot (or A Ninetales). What do you do?

You play a non ex attacker and stop relying on OP cards like ex and gx pokemon

 

[Duo]

Just dropping this here and people can come to whatever conclusion they want.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Just dropping this here and people can come to whatever conclusion they want.

What I expected, lol.

 

[JEKyl]

Are you guys complaining about Safeguarders even serious? Safeguarders have been a mainstay in the game nearly every year an EX/ex has been legal.

You'll find a way around it, trust me.

 

[Fayld]

Are you guys complaining about Safeguarders even serious? Safeguarders have been a mainstay in the game nearly every year an EX/ex has been legal.

You'll find a way around it, trust me.

Not complaining about Safeguard. I am perfectly happy with Safeguard pokemon. I am complaining about the lack of ability killing trainer and Safeguard is the most convenient discussion point.

 

[JDA]

I get what you're saying but you aren't getting what I'm saying. Why do Pokemon in Sun and Moon need immunity from Pokemon-EX where Pokemon-EX as a mechanic was dumped.

The other things you seem to not get is not everyone wants to play Volcanion or Greninja BREAK. Go ahead and put Greninja in a Lapras-GX deck and tell me how that works for you. Not everyone wants to play Xerneas. The goal isn't to restrict what people play. Since you seem to have the answer for this, what do I, as a person playing M Pidgeot-EX put in my deck? My deck is forced to be EX/GX based. I have things I can do but they aren't effective and any person running a deck designed to prevent play will be able to handle opponents trying to get around them. It's why decks like Vileplume win. It's why Archeops works. You can have the counter play but it still doesn't matter.

As for the first question, as before, because they are part of the format still. I can almost assure you that Pokemon in the 2018-2019 format might still have it but if we continue on with GX (unlikely since EX are a long time part of the game) I think the EX part might dissapear from Safeguard.

I get that some might not want to play pokemon X or Y. However this coin also has two sides. Because let me tell you, I have no fandom for Tapu Lele whatsoever, yet due to the ability I'm forced to play it. As my avatar suggests I'm also a fan of Machamp and the whole fighting line, however in the current state of the format I'm fully aware that it's not top competitive and unless there is some hidden Supporter that specifically will boost Pokemon with Fighting Energy like Kaiwe does for Fire I also cannot forsee a quick 'fix' to make it top competitive.

What I agree with is that it would be ideal to not restrict people what to play, however since day 1 of competitive Pokemon play not all Pokemon are designed equally as competitive. In fact it's great that Alolan Ninetales and it's GX form is but the only reason we are talking about it in the first place is because Alolan Vulpix has a free Beacon attack that allows for both to be searched. This attack in particular is very good, both Ninetales are still defeatable. Lastly I see BUS Vileplume, Jolteon EX, Archeops as to some extend Alolan Ninetales as a rogue tech in and by itself, I am happy it is there because else the Pokemon format would only have one archetype which would be beatdown. It's because of powers like this that we have locks, hard and soft and sometimes even mill decks. More archetypes is more relevant Pokemon per set.
Without regular BUS Alolan Ninetales a lot of Stage 2 regular variants that also have a GX would be useless, now they are not.

 

[TCG_Destory]

Before rotation, Alolan Ninetales loses to many decks, such as Greninja, Vespiquen, Lurantis decks that include the Promo Lurantis and Tapu Bulu/Vikavolt. I think the problem will start to emerge after we rotate and lose some good 1 Prize attackers and Hex Maniac. Oranguru should be the universal solution to that deck but will only be effective if you tech multiple copies and it may get Prized up as well. You also can tech the Oblivion Wing Yveltal in Darkness decks and Garbodor in anything that runs Rainbow Energy. Raichu and Zoroark also stay. However, most of these Pokémon are Stage 1, making it so that you pretty much have to build your deck around them. I think the Ability should have required a coin flip or only blocked Pokémon-GX's attacks, and that it should get quite unhealthy at some point, but I don't think a deck that is built around Alolan Ninetales will do well, due to everything it autoloses to, especially before the rotation. So I am seeing it as a tech in Water decks, especially in Alolan Ninetales-GX decks. I hope TPCi will realize what I think is a mistake and errata that Ability if it ever becomes problematic.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

As for the first question, as before, because they are part of the format still. I can almost assure you that Pokemon in the 2018-2019 format might still have it but if we continue on with GX (unlikely since EX are a long time part of the game) I think the EX part might dissapear from Safeguard.

I'm expecting them to continue this simply because of Expanded, which I feel is the actual problem. I don't see any Pokemon-EX as broken enough to warrant the effect existing on GX blocking cards since they naturally have lower HP and post rotation, weaker attacks, with most doing around 130 unscaled as opposed to 160 unscaled now. I'm aware the Tapu's are the exception to this but they also have no Weakness. Like @TCG_Destory said, I'd like to see these effect get erratas. I want to see something done about this for the sake of Expanded.

I get that some might not want to play pokemon X or Y. However this coin also has two sides. Because let me tell you, I have no fandom for Tapu Lele whatsoever, yet due to the ability I'm forced to play it. As my avatar suggests I'm also a fan of Machamp and the whole fighting line, however in the current state of the format I'm fully aware that it's not top competitive and unless there is some hidden Supporter that specifically will boost Pokemon with Fighting Energy like Kaiwe does for Fire I also cannot forsee a quick 'fix' to make it top competitive.

I have no idea what Tapu Lele is but I play it because I assume it's something a Pidgeot would eat but it does have a good effect, which I feel is good for the game and makes the game more accessible for different decks. I see it like the old Pidgeot from FRLG with Quick Search and the Holon Engine, which made more decks usable. The only thing I really fear going into this new Rotation is Tapu Koko decks, which my deck is weak to but I'm looking for ways to beat it.

If you want to play with Machamp-GX, go for it. You still have Strong Energy and Rayquaza is decent at putting Energy. All it takes for me to play a deck is liking the Pokemon and the game is slower so it has a shot. It doesn't need to win worlds or anything, you just need to have fun with it and find tech for it, like I have done for my deck.

What I agree with is that it would be ideal to not restrict people what to play, however since day 1 of competitive Pokemon play not all Pokemon are designed equally as competitive. In fact it's great that Alolan Ninetales and it's GX form is but the only reason we are talking about it in the first place is because Alolan Vulpix has a free Beacon attack that allows for both to be searched. This attack in particular is very good, both Ninetales are still defeatable. Lastly I see BUS Vileplume, Jolteon EX, Archeops as to some extend Alolan Ninetales as a rogue tech in and by itself, I am happy it is there because else the Pokemon format would only have one archetype which would be beatdown. It's because of powers like this that we have locks, hard and soft and sometimes even mill decks. More archetypes is more relevant Pokemon per set.
Without regular BUS Alolan Ninetales a lot of Stage 2 regular variants that also have a GX would be useless, now they are not.

This is why it's important to carefully design cards for your formats or you get things like this. There is zero reason for A. Ninetales and Hoopa to have any interaction with Pokemon-EX. This could have been done via and effect like "prevent all damage done to this Pokemon by evolved Pokemon" and while still powerful, it still leaves the door open for Basic Pokemon to still hit it while still hitting a large amount of cards. I personally think it's too early for Abilities like this going into a new rotation since these Abilities could cause other unhealthy cards to be made.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mega Mewtwo]

Not complaining about it. It should be in the game. I question why Pokemon in Sun and Moon need immunity to Pokemon-EX. The new ones remove two mechanics and gives no real option to deal with it.



You're avatar is of Mewtwo (all of them) and your name is Mega Mewtwo, all of which have EX cards that are broken and you're complaining overpowered Pokemon-EX?

Lol they did recently make a non ex/gx mewtwo that isn't half bad. It's not hard to tech against safeguard. Learn how to strategize and not just rely on broken expensive ex/gx cards