OU: Strategy The X and Y Metagame Discussion Thread
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RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Due to Fairy-type's resistances, I just want to take this post to point out and laugh at everybody who said Gardevoir would be unplayable because it's still frail, Pursuit-weak, and U-turn weak.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways in other news, as DNA just pointed out in chat, Mega Mawile being Fairy/Steel with Huge Power now seems like a really good defensive presence as well as an offensive one. Immune to Dragon and Poison, still resists Dark, Bug (x4), and Rock, as well as now being Neutral to fighting-types. I actually feel like Intimidate Mawile actually becomes a lot better as well, despite its poor stats. Not anywhere close to OU of course, but I think it would find some nice use in lower tiers with its new typing and fantastic support movepool. (Stealth Rock, Toxic, Super Fang, Taunt, Swords Dance/Iron Defense + Baton Pass, etc.)
Due to Fairy-type's resistances, I just want to take this post to point out and laugh at everybody who said Gardevoir would be unplayable because it's still frail, Pursuit-weak, and U-turn weak.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
anyways in other news, as DNA just pointed out in chat, Mega Mawile being Fairy/Steel with Huge Power now seems like a really good defensive presence as well as an offensive one. Immune to Dragon and Poison, still resists Dark, Bug (x4), and Rock, as well as now being Neutral to fighting-types. I actually feel like Intimidate Mawile actually becomes a lot better as well, despite its poor stats. Not anywhere close to OU of course, but I think it would find some nice use in lower tiers with its new typing and fantastic support movepool. (Stealth Rock, Toxic, Super Fang, Taunt, Swords Dance/Iron Defense + Baton Pass, etc.)
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
-Grass-types are now immune to Spore, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, etc.
-Ghost-types can now escape from anything that prevents switching, such as Mean Look and Shadow Tag.
-Electric types can no longer be paralyzed.
This ... is actually good. The biggest thing I can see from this is Celebi being an even better counter to Breloom.
-Grass-types are now immune to Spore, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, etc.
-Ghost-types can now escape from anything that prevents switching, such as Mean Look and Shadow Tag.
-Electric types can no longer be paralyzed.
This ... is actually good. The biggest thing I can see from this is Celebi being an even better counter to Breloom.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
These are actually some legit changes. Ghost-types being able to escape Shadow Tag is a huge plus for stall teams, since their spinblockers can no longer be trapped and lol'd at. I also like that Spore is getting nerfed, and not just because of breloom.
I only really disagree with Electric-types not being able to be paralyzed. I feel like Body Slam should still be able to paralyze them, but w/e. Can't have everything, I suppose.
unsheathed said:
These are actually some legit changes. Ghost-types being able to escape Shadow Tag is a huge plus for stall teams, since their spinblockers can no longer be trapped and lol'd at. I also like that Spore is getting nerfed, and not just because of breloom.
I only really disagree with Electric-types not being able to be paralyzed. I feel like Body Slam should still be able to paralyze them, but w/e. Can't have everything, I suppose.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
While Honedge may be weak to Dark and Ghost now, at least it's probably immune to Magnet Pull. If it or its evolution's stats and moves are any decent, he may just have been saved. Maybe Ghosts are no longer effected by Pursuit due to their new-found escape artistry?
While Honedge may be weak to Dark and Ghost now, at least it's probably immune to Magnet Pull. If it or its evolution's stats and moves are any decent, he may just have been saved. Maybe Ghosts are no longer effected by Pursuit due to their new-found escape artistry?
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
If ghosts can escape Pursuit, that would be pretty cool for spinblockers. It would almost completely ruin the move though, there's not exactly much more to trap.
I'm just noticing that Azumarill became a lot better with the resistences to Fighting, Bug, and Dark. With 100/80/80 defenses, in addition to the fact that it often invests 252 EVs in HP due to it's poor speed, it actually finds quite a few opportunities to switch in, and then force things out due to STAB Aqua Jet backed by Huge Power and potentially Choice Band. It can get in on Crunch from Tyranitar, although that's pretty risky considering you might get nuked with a Stone Edge. I like that Azumarill trolls Scizor, resisting every one of its common moves except Pursuit. Azumarill's ability to offensively check a lot of pokemon has increased I think, since you can now probably safely survive the proper moves from Choice-locked Tyranitar, Terrakion, Keldeo, Scizor, Dragonite, Haxorus, Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Breloom, Latias, and Latios. (Plus you beat Excadrill lol!) I'm slowly liking 6th gen more and more.
If ghosts can escape Pursuit, that would be pretty cool for spinblockers. It would almost completely ruin the move though, there's not exactly much more to trap.
I'm just noticing that Azumarill became a lot better with the resistences to Fighting, Bug, and Dark. With 100/80/80 defenses, in addition to the fact that it often invests 252 EVs in HP due to it's poor speed, it actually finds quite a few opportunities to switch in, and then force things out due to STAB Aqua Jet backed by Huge Power and potentially Choice Band. It can get in on Crunch from Tyranitar, although that's pretty risky considering you might get nuked with a Stone Edge. I like that Azumarill trolls Scizor, resisting every one of its common moves except Pursuit. Azumarill's ability to offensively check a lot of pokemon has increased I think, since you can now probably safely survive the proper moves from Choice-locked Tyranitar, Terrakion, Keldeo, Scizor, Dragonite, Haxorus, Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Breloom, Latias, and Latios. (Plus you beat Excadrill lol!) I'm slowly liking 6th gen more and more.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Yeah, I think Azumarril is probably the most interesting confirmed Fairy type we have so far.
Water/Fairy STAB is good coverage. It's resisted by:
Water/Poison
Grass/Poison
Water/Steel
Grass/Steel
Azumarril's resistances are: Water. Ice, Fire, Fighting, Dark, Bug and a Dragon immunity.
Not bad for a Pokemon whose Attack stat clears 400 and has a primary STAB boosted by the #1 weather in the game.
Yeah, I think Azumarril is probably the most interesting confirmed Fairy type we have so far.
Water/Fairy STAB is good coverage. It's resisted by:
Water/Poison
Grass/Poison
Water/Steel
Grass/Steel
Azumarril's resistances are: Water. Ice, Fire, Fighting, Dark, Bug and a Dragon immunity.
Not bad for a Pokemon whose Attack stat clears 400 and has a primary STAB boosted by the #1 weather in the game.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Some cool stuff that has been revealed that hasn't been talked about here yet:
- Freeze-Dry, an Ice-type move with a chance to freeze. It is also super-effective on Water-types.
- Rock/Dragon-type Tyrantrum. It has the Strong Jaw ability, which increases the power of biting moves (Crunch, Fire Fang, etc)
- Fur Coat ability, which halves the damage done by physical moves. Not that big of a deal unless it is distributed to other Pokemon besides Furfrou, or if Furfrou has great stats and moves to backup that ability.
- Honedge evolves into Doublade and learns Sacred Sword, which provides good coverage with its Ghost- and Steel-type attacks. Sadly, Ghost/Steel has been less attractive due to Steel-type's resistance nerf.
Information from a Nintendo Dream interview:
- There is an adjustment to the inheritance system of breeding.
- Ghost-type Pokémon can freely escape from battle without being influenced by Shadow Tag. (The official website had previously mentioned trapping moves.)
- When distributing new moves and Abilities, priority was given to new Pokémon.
- The standard selection process for Pokémon to receive Mega Evolutions is based on three points: visual looks, popularity and game balance.
- The timing to Mega-Evolve is selectable. (This was demonstrated in game demos.)
- Some moves, with focus on special ones, have had their power and accuracy revamped. (FOCUS BLAST???)
From WPM's recent (unconfirmed) leaks:
- Other Pokemon that are now Fairy-type: the Chansey evolution line, Dunsparce, the Clefairy line, and Togepi's line.
- Fairy Dust is a new move that will randomly cause either Paralysis, Poison, Sleep, or Burn. (Tri Attack + Sleep and Poison)
Some cool stuff that has been revealed that hasn't been talked about here yet:
- Freeze-Dry, an Ice-type move with a chance to freeze. It is also super-effective on Water-types.
- Rock/Dragon-type Tyrantrum. It has the Strong Jaw ability, which increases the power of biting moves (Crunch, Fire Fang, etc)
- Fur Coat ability, which halves the damage done by physical moves. Not that big of a deal unless it is distributed to other Pokemon besides Furfrou, or if Furfrou has great stats and moves to backup that ability.
- Honedge evolves into Doublade and learns Sacred Sword, which provides good coverage with its Ghost- and Steel-type attacks. Sadly, Ghost/Steel has been less attractive due to Steel-type's resistance nerf.
Information from a Nintendo Dream interview:
- There is an adjustment to the inheritance system of breeding.
- Ghost-type Pokémon can freely escape from battle without being influenced by Shadow Tag. (The official website had previously mentioned trapping moves.)
- When distributing new moves and Abilities, priority was given to new Pokémon.
- The standard selection process for Pokémon to receive Mega Evolutions is based on three points: visual looks, popularity and game balance.
- The timing to Mega-Evolve is selectable. (This was demonstrated in game demos.)
- Some moves, with focus on special ones, have had their power and accuracy revamped. (FOCUS BLAST???)
From WPM's recent (unconfirmed) leaks:
- Other Pokemon that are now Fairy-type: the Chansey evolution line, Dunsparce, the Clefairy line, and Togepi's line.
- Fairy Dust is a new move that will randomly cause either Paralysis, Poison, Sleep, or Burn. (Tri Attack + Sleep and Poison)
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Here are my thoughts on some of these new findings:
- Freeze-Dry looks like a very appealing coverage option for whatever gets it, but that depends on the base power/accuracy. I'm picturing something like Scald.
- Aurorus looks boss compared to many of the fossil Pokémon from other generations. Very slick and elegant. Being the inaugural user of Freeze-Dry is another plus.
- The Fur Coat ability is overpowered, but it depends on it's distribution (Lopunny maybe?) and the stats of Furfrou to determine it's worth.
- Doublade is arguably my favorite from this generation, being a double-sheathed pair of swords and Ghost/Steel. It has lots of unique traits going for it, but Steel's nerf somewhat counteracts that.
- Ghosts being free of Shadow Tag = no Chandelure wars (if they are possible).
- Moves with accuracy and power revamps could be Focus Blast, Gunk Shot, Hydro Pump, etc. The base 120 attacks, most likely.
More from me when news comes in later, I suppose.
~AoH
Here are my thoughts on some of these new findings:
- Freeze-Dry looks like a very appealing coverage option for whatever gets it, but that depends on the base power/accuracy. I'm picturing something like Scald.
- Aurorus looks boss compared to many of the fossil Pokémon from other generations. Very slick and elegant. Being the inaugural user of Freeze-Dry is another plus.
- The Fur Coat ability is overpowered, but it depends on it's distribution (Lopunny maybe?) and the stats of Furfrou to determine it's worth.
- Doublade is arguably my favorite from this generation, being a double-sheathed pair of swords and Ghost/Steel. It has lots of unique traits going for it, but Steel's nerf somewhat counteracts that.
- Ghosts being free of Shadow Tag = no Chandelure wars (if they are possible).
- Moves with accuracy and power revamps could be Focus Blast, Gunk Shot, Hydro Pump, etc. The base 120 attacks, most likely.
More from me when news comes in later, I suppose.
~AoH
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I'm also really not looking forward to buffing Togekiss. That pokemon was annoying enough already, but now it will have an immunity to dragon, x4 resists to Close Combat and U-turn, and fairy-type moves that will not only be STAB, but have Serene Grace behind them. 9.9
Fur Coat also seems wtf ridiculous if that pokemon has anywhere near decent stats. Can you imagine if a Prevo got to use Eviolite and Fur Coat? x____x
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc[/video]
I'm also really not looking forward to buffing Togekiss. That pokemon was annoying enough already, but now it will have an immunity to dragon, x4 resists to Close Combat and U-turn, and fairy-type moves that will not only be STAB, but have Serene Grace behind them. 9.9
Fur Coat also seems wtf ridiculous if that pokemon has anywhere near decent stats. Can you imagine if a Prevo got to use Eviolite and Fur Coat? x____x
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
True. Sorry about that, it was three in the morning.
In that case, if they ever release a Pokémon with Pursuit and Shadow Tag or Chandelure, Ghosts get the free escape button at least. All of these defensive ghosts (Dusk-line, etc.) are slightly more viable if the future does hold this.
On Tyrantrum, it reminds me of the "Tyrant's" trap card series in YuGiOh. I'm hoping that the stats of this one live up to it's name and not be a mess-up like Rampardos. It has some promising things going for it, like the Strong Jaw ability.
And fairies be like: umad TPO3?
~AoH
unsheathed said:
True. Sorry about that, it was three in the morning.
In that case, if they ever release a Pokémon with Pursuit and Shadow Tag or Chandelure, Ghosts get the free escape button at least. All of these defensive ghosts (Dusk-line, etc.) are slightly more viable if the future does hold this.
On Tyrantrum, it reminds me of the "Tyrant's" trap card series in YuGiOh. I'm hoping that the stats of this one live up to it's name and not be a mess-up like Rampardos. It has some promising things going for it, like the Strong Jaw ability.
~AoH
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
So Mega Evolution is pretty much confirmed to have priority. In the Pokemon Smash video, an Ampharos goes Mega before a Slowbro does while Trick Room is up. Slowbro is slower and thus should've outsped Ampharos. Without priority, this is impossible unless Slowbro has Speed EVs and a + Speed nature while the Ampharos has a - Speed nature. I seriously doubt they'd go through all the trouble of carefully selecting natures for both and giving a TR slowbro speed evs just to keep us guessing.
So Mega Evolution is pretty much confirmed to have priority. In the Pokemon Smash video, an Ampharos goes Mega before a Slowbro does while Trick Room is up. Slowbro is slower and thus should've outsped Ampharos. Without priority, this is impossible unless Slowbro has Speed EVs and a + Speed nature while the Ampharos has a - Speed nature. I seriously doubt they'd go through all the trouble of carefully selecting natures for both and giving a TR slowbro speed evs just to keep us guessing.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
It would make no sense for Mega Evos NOT to get priority. I'm guessing it has the same priority as item use (like Full Restore, etc) so it would still outspeed moves like Magic Coat/ESpeed, etc. by the user. Since it is an item-based effect anyway, I see no problem with the high priority of the transformation.Cinesra said:
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
That's what I had assumed, but I've seen some doubt. Also here's the video for anyone interested.
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ktmmloL1kg[/video]
Other things to note are that Topsy Turvy sounds pretty cool in doubles. Now you can use Dmeteor/overheat/leaf storm/psycho boost and then reverse the stat drop. Also Gogoat takes less than half damage from Slowbro's Ice Beam.
iSharingan said:
That's what I had assumed, but I've seen some doubt. Also here's the video for anyone interested.
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ktmmloL1kg[/video]
Other things to note are that Topsy Turvy sounds pretty cool in doubles. Now you can use Dmeteor/overheat/leaf storm/psycho boost and then reverse the stat drop. Also Gogoat takes less than half damage from Slowbro's Ice Beam.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
So the leaker we have says there is going to be a Flying/Fighting-type next gen. Just take a moment to consider that Flying/Fighting STAB hits basically half the type chart (Dark, Steel, Rock, Ice, Normal, Bug, Grass, AND Fighting, 8/18 types) super-effectively. Literally the ONLY pokemon we know of at this time that resist both STABs at the same time are Zapdos and Honedge/Doublade. It would probably get STAB on Brave Bird and Close Combat/Superpower OR Hurricane and Aura Sphere/Focus Blast. You resist Bug, Fighting, Grass, Dark, and are Immune to Ground.
Also consider: Since you're a Flying-type, you're immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and you probably get Roost (which can circumstantially help you alleviate your weakness to Ice and Electric). Since you're a Fighting-type, you are no longer weak to Stealth Rock nor Stone Edge.
I realize it all depends on base stats but I mean still...discuss o_o
EDIT: I guess that Dedenne pokemon resists both STABs too, but it's like this gen's Pikachu so it's pretty irrelevant.
So the leaker we have says there is going to be a Flying/Fighting-type next gen. Just take a moment to consider that Flying/Fighting STAB hits basically half the type chart (Dark, Steel, Rock, Ice, Normal, Bug, Grass, AND Fighting, 8/18 types) super-effectively. Literally the ONLY pokemon we know of at this time that resist both STABs at the same time are Zapdos and Honedge/Doublade. It would probably get STAB on Brave Bird and Close Combat/Superpower OR Hurricane and Aura Sphere/Focus Blast. You resist Bug, Fighting, Grass, Dark, and are Immune to Ground.
Also consider: Since you're a Flying-type, you're immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and you probably get Roost (which can circumstantially help you alleviate your weakness to Ice and Electric). Since you're a Fighting-type, you are no longer weak to Stealth Rock nor Stone Edge.
I realize it all depends on base stats but I mean still...discuss o_o
EDIT: I guess that Dedenne pokemon resists both STABs too, but it's like this gen's Pikachu so it's pretty irrelevant.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
If my guess is correct, the pokemon's stats and move pool will probably parallel Staraptor to some extent. With the better typing/STAB combo (assuming my guess is at least close) it will probably land solidly in the higher tiers of competitive play, since Staraptor was only BL due to less-than-ideal typing (including weakness to SR), crappy defenses (coupled with a reliance on recoil moves), and only slightly better than average speed.
If my guess is correct, the pokemon's stats and move pool will probably parallel Staraptor to some extent. With the better typing/STAB combo (assuming my guess is at least close) it will probably land solidly in the higher tiers of competitive play, since Staraptor was only BL due to less-than-ideal typing (including weakness to SR), crappy defenses (coupled with a reliance on recoil moves), and only slightly better than average speed.