Tier List (Update: 12/9)

RE: Tier List (Update: 7/30, yes, I'm updating it daily)

I disagree with some of the item tiers. Energy Search is in no way tier 2, definately tier 3. Also, energy retrieval is probably tier 2 due to its use in reshiboar. Also, SSU is a good card that should be tier 1 or 2.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/30, yes, I'm updating it daily)

dmaster said:
lol There is no reason a Tier 1.5/2.5 should exist. Tier 1.5 should be collapsed into Tier 2 and Tier 2.5 should be collapsed into Tier 3. A Tier for one/two decks is absolutely pointless.

That being said, Kingdra/Yanmega should be Tier 1. It had a lot of showings in Top Cut and overall IMO to be included somewhere by name and not just by "Yanmega varients or Kingdra varients". That's a disservice to the deck.

dmaster out.

LOL I actually made the edited version to fit those tiers in XP But I guess if I can find more decks for the middle tier, I'll make 2.5/1.5 again.

Yanmega/Kingdra was included in just Yanmega variants, not Kingdra variants. But I suppose I'll make it low tier 1. Bottom tier 1 will be Donphan/Dragons, I decided it hasn't really seen much Nationals play, and is really just all talk, no walk.

hipoke said:
Just change Mew with Jumpluff to Mexbox. It's better that way.

Mewbox /=/ Mewpluff. But I will add Mewbox. It'll be tier 3.

OU Pokemon said:
I think Sage's Training should be put in Tier 2, as it isn't a staple since I don't see it in many deck-related articles at http://google.com/.

Eh, as much as I like Sage's, you're right. It's an amazing, overlooked card, but it simply doesn't see play.

Dark Void said:
I disagree with some of the item tiers. Energy Search is in no way tier 2, definately tier 3. Also, energy retrieval is probably tier 2 due to its use in reshiboar. Also, SSU is a good card that should be tier 1 or 2.

Alright, I'll bump Search down to 2, because I'm getting rid of 3 since there would only be Defender in 2. I'm keeping Retrieval as 3. "It's played in a high Tier 2 deck and some other Tier 3/Rogue decks" doesn't make it a tier 2 trainer. SSU has hardly any other play besides Zekrom. Remember, these are based on playability, not many play SSU in anything besides Zekrom.

Also, I took Cinccino out of BDIF, because I realized I'm the one of only one that's been successful with it >_>
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/30, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Why is Pokeball Tier 2? Everything outclasses it when it comes to searching for Pokemon, like Dual Ball, Pokemon Collector, even Great Ball outclasses it, so I think Pokeball should be removed or placed at the bottom of Tier 2.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/30, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Poke Ball isn't that great, but it can search out evolutions, so its technically not completely outclassed by those cards. That doesn't mean it should be high tier, though.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/30, yes, I'm updating it daily)

OU Pokemon said:
Why is Pokeball Tier 2? Everything outclasses it when it comes to searching for Pokemon, like Dual Ball, Pokemon Collector, even Great Ball outclasses it, so I think Pokeball should be removed or placed at the bottom of Tier 2.

Trainers/Supporters aren't in order. Because staples can be worse or better depending on the deck.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Juniper is definitely not tier one. There's just too little lists that can carry the weight of discarding the Pokemon and Energy. Fire deals with the Energy, but wastes Trainers/Supporters (Emboar) or Pokepowers (Typhlosion) in doing so.
Right now I wouldn't play Juniper in any deck. We need cheap Pokemon retrieval, then we can talk. Maybe.

Seeker however is probably a solid tier one choice. Lots of decks have big Pokes (and they already play Switches anyway) so healing those is very amazing.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

I disagree. Juniper can be played in ANY deck, even just 1 in Yanmega variants isn't a bad choice. It's been played a lot as well, so it definitely deserves to be tier 1.

Seeker, however, does not belong in tier 1. The fact that it hasn't seen play outside of Lostgar and maybe ZPS alone makes it low tier 1.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Actually, Seeker sees play in Yanmega decks, so you can switch around the yanmega and keep using them to there full potential, and not have to waste your rescue energy early game
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Honestly putting T/S/S in tiers is just ridiculous, and I disagree with putting decks in tiers in the first place. Especially since they're hardly ever accurate.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

I also disagree with "Tiers" for T/S/S. It completely depends on what deck you're running. A card in Tier 1 may be awful in a certain deck, and one in Tier 2 may be perfect to play 4 of. I really don't understand why you would classify them in this way.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Well if you don't like the Item and supporter lists, you don't have to pay attention to them. They're for the members who actually appreciate and use them, and want to give their opinions on them. It's not like they do any harm. Misguiding, in some people's minds, maybe, but other than that...
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Kingdra Prime variants (MOST, excludes Yanmega)
Zoroark Variants (MOST)

These, in my honest opinion, need to be Tier 1. I've witnessed, played, and played against these decks. They're fast (usually), consistant (usually), and have all-around good matchups.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Zoroark isn't a deck. It's a tech.

Playing Zoroark as a deck basically means hoping your opponent brought something more decent.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Zoroark is paired with things that take little-no resources to attack, like Kingdra or Yanmega. These quick-hitting decks have trouble against OHKO and Reshiram/Zekrom, all of which Zoroark fixes. (Magnezone Prime, Emboar, Reshiram, Zekrom, Machamp Prime, etc. etc.)
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Yes, that means Zoroark is a tech against heavy hitters in other decks, not the main focus of the deck. Those would be Kingdra variants or Yanmega variants that you are referring to, not Zoroark variants.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

A 3-2-3 Kingdra and a 3-3 Zoroark (or 4-2-4, 4-4, however you please) is without a doubt considered a main feature. 3-3 or 4-4 is not a tech.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

The purpose of a tech is to bring hate in your deck against matchups you have trouble with otherwise. Kingdra decks do have a decent amount of trouble against Reshiram/Zekrom, and Zoroark brings hate towards those. Therefore, it is a tech.
There are other kinds of Pokemon in a deck, like a main attacker (Magnezone Prime, for instance), sometimes a backup attacker (Yanmega in Magnezone lists) and a supporting card (Ninetales in TyRam). These Pokemon are supposed to be the main strategy and will help you win most of the matchups.
Other examples of techs are: Psychic Toxicroak G (in SP lists vs. Machamp), Ambipom G (in SP vs. the mirror and slow decks) and Weavile G (in SP vs. Lostgar) As you can see, all have a very specific goal, but can't really win games for you on their own.
Zoroark also is not a main attacker or a backup attacker (he can't do anything by itself) and he doesn't accelerate the main strategy either. The only thing he does is bring specific hate towards other decks, therefore it is a tech. It doesn't matter that you're foolish enough to play him in a big line like 3-3, this only means he's a tech that takes up too much space.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

@StealthAngel: You're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

A tech is a card put into a deck to counter a specific bad matchup or several specific bad matchups. Other Pokémon are either supporting cards or main attackers.
With Rikko145's example of 3-3 Zoroark and 3-2-3 Kingdra (or even bumped up to 4-2-4 and 4-4), Zoroark is basically the main focus of the deck– the overlying goal is to get Zoroark out and Kingdra out and attack with them when convenient, and maybe another Stage 1 if the deck includes it (Yanmega, for example). Zoroark makes the deck– without Zoroark, it would be a Yandra deck. But the point is that you will be actively getting out Zoroark in most matchups– it is a main attacker, like it or not. You'll use it against DD, Reshiram, Zekrom, most likely Yanmega (so you don't have to match hand size), Stage 1 (although Kingdra could do well also), Cinccino, and Blastoise/Feraligatr/Floatzel, just to name a few meta decks where your Zoroark will definitely be used to attack. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like a tech to me.

And while you say that Zoroark doesn't accelerate the main strategy of the deck, I beg to differ. The overall goal is to win by drawing six prizes, no? And with Zoroark/Kingdra/Yanmega, the strategy is to get knockouts on whatever you can to win, be it sniping or flat-out attacking with Yanmega, placing damage or attacking with Kingdra, or getting some good damage in with Zoroark.

Zoroark is not a tech because the purpose of this deck involves getting Zoroark out– it helps against too many matchups to simply be a tech.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Scizorliscious said:
@StealthAngel: You're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

A tech is a card put into a deck to counter a specific bad matchup or several specific bad matchups. Other Pokémon are either supporting cards or main attackers.
With Rikko145's example of 3-3 Zoroark and 3-2-3 Kingdra (or even bumped up to 4-2-4 and 4-4), Zoroark is basically the main focus of the deck– the overlying goal is to get Zoroark out and Kingdra out and attack with them when convenient, and maybe another Stage 1 if the deck includes it (Yanmega, for example). Zoroark makes the deck– without Zoroark, it would be a Yandra deck. But the point is that you will be actively getting out Zoroark in most matchups– it is a main attacker, like it or not. You'll use it against DD, Reshiram, Zekrom, most likely Yanmega (so you don't have to match hand size), Stage 1 (although Kingdra could do well also), Cinccino, and Blastoise/Feraligatr/Floatzel, just to name a few meta decks where your Zoroark will definitely be used to attack. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like a tech to me.

And while you say that Zoroark doesn't accelerate the main strategy of the deck, I beg to differ. The overall goal is to win by drawing six prizes, no? And with Zoroark/Kingdra/Yanmega, the strategy is to get knockouts on whatever you can to win, be it sniping or flat-out attacking with Yanmega, placing damage or attacking with Kingdra, or getting some good damage in with Zoroark.

Zoroark is not a tech because the purpose of this deck involves getting Zoroark out– it helps against too many matchups to simply be a tech.

I agree on all points made here, because Scizorlicious is 100% right in this post. 'Nuff said.
 
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