Tier List (Update: 12/9)

RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Scizorliscious said:
@StealthAngel: You're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

A tech is a card put into a deck to counter a specific bad matchup or several specific bad matchups. Other Pokémon are either supporting cards or main attackers.
With Rikko145's example of 3-3 Zoroark and 3-2-3 Kingdra (or even bumped up to 4-2-4 and 4-4), Zoroark is basically the main focus of the deck– the overlying goal is to get Zoroark out and Kingdra out and attack with them when convenient, and maybe another Stage 1 if the deck includes it (Yanmega, for example). Zoroark makes the deck– without Zoroark, it would be a Yandra deck. But the point is that you will be actively getting out Zoroark in most matchups– it is a main attacker, like it or not. You'll use it against DD, Reshiram, Zekrom, most likely Yanmega (so you don't have to match hand size), Stage 1 (although Kingdra could do well also), Cinccino, and Blastoise/Feraligatr/Floatzel, just to name a few meta decks where your Zoroark will definitely be used to attack. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like a tech to me.

And while you say that Zoroark doesn't accelerate the main strategy of the deck, I beg to differ. The overall goal is to win by drawing six prizes, no? And with Zoroark/Kingdra/Yanmega, the strategy is to get knockouts on whatever you can to win, be it sniping or flat-out attacking with Yanmega, placing damage or attacking with Kingdra, or getting some good damage in with Zoroark.

Zoroark is not a tech because the purpose of this deck involves getting Zoroark out– it helps against too many matchups to simply be a tech.
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My understanding of this deck up until now was different from what you posted, so I guess that's enlightening or something.
I don't think the strategy you wrote down here works the way you make it look, and the results in tournaments of Kingdra-Zoroark reflect that. It's not a viable deck.
However I will agree that in this very specific list, Zoroark is a main attacker and not a tech. I would never use him as such, but hey, to each his own deck and all.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Actually, the person who won the PokeBeach RedShark tournament is a good friend of mine, and we constantly share lists. He ran Zoroark/Yanmega with both as main attackers and beat JWittz's ReshiPhlosion, along with many other high-profile decks.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Lol'd at high-profile decks. What a way to word it.
Anyway, we'll see how well it performs at Worlds in a couple of days, between all the 'high-profile' decks or something. Then we can take a look at the tier list again, I suppose. I think results from Redshark are a little bit too flimsy.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

I have my doubts that anybody will play it at worlds, to be perfectly honest. It will be a Yanmega fest.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Sadly, that seems to be what the metagame decided upon. Still, there may be a deck that anticipates all the Yanmegas and takes an easy win. 'sup Lanturn.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Rikko145 said:
Actually, the person who won the PokeBeach RedShark tournament is a good friend of mine, and we constantly share lists. He ran Zoroark/Yanmega with both as main attackers and beat JWittz's ReshiPhlosion, along with many other high-profile decks.
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Well, I watched him play a couple of the games...one game there was a guy loading his Yanmega up with grass energy. Another was against a guy playing MewBat who used up way too many resources to make sure his benched Zorua died instead of the active Yanmega. Wouldn't want him foul playing see off...And the games against JWittz and the other guy came down to lucky Tyrogue flips. So many good games...

Yeah...I wouldn't cite the results of the RS tournament in predicting the results of Worlds.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

I'm just saying it would be a good play. If other people disagree, then that's okay. Everybody's entitled to an opinion.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Lanturn actually could be okay... the fact that it manages to easily KO Yanmega and Donohan (Weakness) is a big plus (although the Donphan matchup isn't great because of its own Weakness). I doubt it will see much play just since it's a tad slow, but you never know.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Rikko145 said:
I'm just saying it would be a good play. If other people disagree, then that's okay. Everybody's entitled to an opinion.
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I think the ones with Donphan will do better than without. There were a couple in T128 at nats that didn't have Donphan; they got knocked out pretty fast, while Donphan won one division and lost in Masters on a coin flip. Donphan, for one thing, makes the Magnezone matchup a lot easier, and gives the deck a less "frail" pokemon.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

StealthAngel667 said:
Zoroark isn't a deck. It's a tech.

Playing Zoroark as a deck basically means hoping your opponent brought something more decent.
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But the thing is that a deck focused around taking cheep prizes actually works, what better way then to use their own attacks against them, and snipe with yanmega.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Scizorliscious said:
Lanturn actually could be okay... the fact that it manages to easily KO Yanmega and Donohan (Weakness) is a big plus (although the Donphan matchup isn't great because of its own Weakness). I doubt it will see much play just since it's a tad slow, but you never know.
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I feel like Lanturn Prime can be really good, but only if played right and in the right deck. It can one shot all sorts of things like Yanmega, Donphan, and Reshiram. It is kind of fragile because it can get OHKO'd back, but I do feel that if someone figures out a good way to play Lanturn it could actually see some play.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

I think the only way to play it would be with Yanmega. Feraligatr and Emboar are both dead after Catcher... and it takes some powering up.

Or perhaps It could be run like TyRam, except with Lanturn instead of Reshiram? It would do less damage usually, but doesn't have to discard and has better typing. Maybe it would work.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

After catchers release it will be hard to even run Donphan toolbox, but Donphan and REshiPhlosion are the 2 safest decks to play IMO
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

thefleeee said:
After catchers release it will be hard to even run Donphan toolbox, but Donphan and REshiPhlosion are the 2 safest decks to play IMO
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How many times have to repeat: Catcher is just an reversal without flip. There's those that are lucky with the flips even.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

That's not the point. The point is that people will run more Catcher than they would Reversal because it doesn't have a flip. Now you're more likely to draw into something that has a 100% chance of working because you run more of it, so it hinders your opponent that much more. Where people would play 2 or 3 Reversal, they'll now play 4 Catcher. And believe me when I say the flips matter– 4 easy KOs off of Catcher makes the game really easy. Only, say, 2 off of Reversal can be a challenge.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

^I will agree on this point, because I never even considered running Reversal, because it is unreliable, but Catcher is quite a good trainer pick for some if not most of my probable decklists.
People who ran Reversal and had luck with it...well, they just got a little bit luckier. For the rest of us, it's an interesting addition (or should I say comeback, Gust of Wind?) to the gameplay.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Scizorliscious said:
That's not the point. The point is that people will run more Catcher than they would Reversal because it doesn't have a flip. Now you're more likely to draw into something that has a 100% chance of working because you run more of it, so it hinders your opponent that much more. Where people would play 2 or 3 Reversal, they'll now play 4 Catcher. And believe me when I say the flips matter– 4 easy KOs off of Catcher makes the game really easy. Only, say, 2 off of Reversal can be a challenge.
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Actually, I have to say it would be the opposite. Many decks run 4 reversal in order to guarentee some heads while some decks will run 1-2 catcher due to it being a guarenteed heads so you can just use junk arm to reuse if needed.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

People keep going on how everyone will be running catcher. However, nearly every deck will need to run switch in order to cope with it.
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

Storm_Front said:
People keep going on how everyone will be running catcher. However, nearly every deck will need to run switch in order to cope with it.
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Switch will become one of the key staple cards after EP is released and Im glad someone mentioned it
 
RE: Tier List (Update: 7/31, yes, I'm updating it daily)

I notice Samurott is still not here. Samurott is an amazing play this format, if only due to it's ridiculously good Dpnphan matchup. Run it with Donphan or another Fighting type so that you can counter Lanturn and Zekrom, and you're solid. It also pairs great with Lanturn, covering each other's weaknesses extremely well. It's splashable in any deck really, so long as you run DCE.
 
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