Finished Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Members win!

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RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Reinforce said:
And to my readings, counter-claimers have it harder proving themselves. Claiming first is a show of confidence --- confident that you can't be proven wrong, and therefore there is a high chance you're telling the truth. Should no solid evidence surface, you're more inclined to be believable. And if you happen to be a lying wolf in that scenario, that's a bad thing.

Actually, in most cases, the person counter claiming someone else is more likely too be telling the truth. If a wolf is under no suspicion, why would they put themselves in the spotlight by claiming someone else's role? If they were already in the spotlight and needed to come up with a believable case, it would make more sense if they made up a believable claim, that could only be disproven if the real role came out and disproved them. Now, in most cases, a wolf wouldn't be stupid enough to claim something that could easily be counterclaimed, but it's more believable than the former. Wolves tend to try to think of their own role, so they blend into the crowd and remain unnoticed.

alex said:
MtC why are you voting Jeremy?

I have to say, I'm not a fan of repeating my case against someone every time I bring up that I want to vote for them. I usually do it anyway because people will ask about it, but every once in a while, I don't post it, and hope that people don't ask me and they remember my first case. This never seems to work for me, and it's a little irritating. It would be more convenient for me if people reread my posts instead of asking me to find it for them.

Anyway, here is my main point against him:

Jeremy1026 said:
So, I'm a bit upset that TheGuy beat me to the punch. I was saving my Camoclone thoughts until the start of D3. Anyone who isn't doing things 100% the way that he wants or expects is without any shadow of doubt in his mind scum. Which isn't terrible, but the fact that his conviction changes multiple times a day, and in a complete 180, is completely ridiculous and super suspicious. Even though I was hoping to get Camoclone out via lynch on D3, I think we may need to keep Keeper another night and get Camoclone out of this game before he causes some serious damage to the town.

This seems like a very wolfy post to me. Camo hasn't done an abnormal amount of flip-flopping this game (or maybe I've just gotten too used to it and barely notice it anymore :p), and I don't really see how you think "Anyone who isn't doing things 100% the way that he wants or expects is without any shadow of doubt in his mind scum". I mean, I see it a little bit, but not to the point where he's pointing fingers at everyone who disagrees with him. Jeremy's opinion of Camo wouldn't be affected by Camo's play styles in previous games, so I find it odd that he's acting this strongly towards Camo just based off of his posts in this game. My point being this post may have been spoon fed to him by another scum member, possibly Keeper, since he's very obviously trying to defend him in this post. This could also very easily be OMGUS (oh my god you suck), trying to turn the tables on Camo instead of himself.

Oh, and I decided to read all of Jeremy's post again (I forgot the acronym for that), and here's all the scummy things I saw:

Jeremy1026 said:
Camoclone said:
I know what you are doing... But it could also work on LF you know. Also Jeremy is scum. Don't you agree? He doesn't read the thread. He doesn't answer my question. He randomly bandwagons. I think he needs to go today.

##UNVERB: KEEPER OF NIGHT
##VERB: JEREMY1026

You're question was irrelevant to the game though, you seem to just not want new players playing your game. It's cool though, new comers have to be scum I get it, it makes total sense since the roles are random and what not.

He seems pretty hostile for 1 or 2 players accusing him of being scum.

Jeremy1026 said:
Teal said:
Everyone, please do answer this simple questionary:

1. Do you think Reinforce is town or scum? (Why?)
2. Do you think Keeper of Night is serial killer, town or scum? (Why?)

Thank you.

1. I think Reinforce is scum, or at the very least a member of Porygon-X faction. His "do you believe this role" post gave me a vibe of, "is this lie believable, or should I make a new one up?"

2. I'm beginning to feel less and less that KoN is the SK, but I am having a hard time putting him into town. He is far too wishy-washy with his ability and isn't always forthcoming with the information he has received via his ability (assuming he actually has the ability at all).

Right now, I think that the best lynch for the day is to take out Reinforce, with that said.

##unplay Keeper of Night

##play Reinforce

Even after people said they didn't believe his claim, he didn't "make up a new one", as Jeremy is saying here. (Some other people might've said this before, but I can't remember who right now.)

And every other post of his has been like 1-2 sentences, and has either accomplished nothing with it, or was bandwagoning. Most new players at least try to add something to their posts (one of his posts was "lurking" and nothing else). I would be very satisfied with a Jeremy lynch today, as I've said before.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Machamp The Champion said:
Reinforce said:
1. I think Reinforce is scum, or at the very least a member of Porygon-X faction. His "do you believe this role" post gave me a vibe of, "is this lie believable, or should I make a new one up?"

Even after people said they didn't believe his claim, he didn't "make up a new one", as Jeremy is saying here. (Some other people might've said this before, but I can't remember who right now.)

Do you just read the few words that make the point you are trying to push? I never said that he made up a new one. Reread what I said, then get back to me.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

MtC, you seem to be cutting a lot of corners in your analysis of his posts. It seems more like you are voting him and then trying to find reasons to explain it, rather than have reasons to find him suspicious and then vote him because of that. If you understand what I mean.

Very scummy, imho.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

GM DracLord said:
Whatever happen I'm pretty sure i wouldn't be lasting long if let say KoN is a mafia for some reason. I hope i'm wrong about you KoN .

Pointing out that grantm liked this post. Members should not be voicing their opinions from beyond the grave.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

alex said:
MtC, you seem to be cutting a lot of corners in your analysis of his posts. It seems more like you are voting him and then trying to find reasons to explain it, rather than have reasons to find him suspicious and then vote him because of that. If you understand what I mean.

Very scummy, imho.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, but I had already pointed out the scumminess of that first post (the one in the spoiler) when I voted for him. Afterwards, I just felt like looking at his old posts in case they're really scummy or really town like, just to be even more sure of my vote.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

hey I'm here now
I do think that Reinforce seems scummy today, based on what he's said. I don't think there's much more I can add apart from agreeing with others so far.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Soooo just to start some more conversation:

##Tag: SMP

Let's hear what you have to say.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Ok not much discussio here right now huh. I will tell you this really quick since I have to leave for uni in 15 min. Reinforce is town.

Athena and MtC are my main scum suspects.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

I will tell you this really quick since I have to leave for uni in 15 min. Reinforce is town.

And you know this how? Also, why not mention it earlier? He's had a ton of suspicion since his first post, right at the beginning of the game.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Hey guys how about we don't have a 2nd no lynch? Day ends tomorrow.

Teal, you're going to need to say more than "Reinforce is town gtg".
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

^good point. I think the best lynch imo is reinforce, because there is the most evidence against him. Thereforce (cwutididthar) I shall ##WEAKEN: Reinforce.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

I honestly am not sure on the whole Reinforce thing, as I still think KoN is the best lynch, but I still go by my moral of Lynch is better than No Lynch. ##PANYARARA: Reinforce
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Hmm...

@ sillykyle

I'm sorry too, if it seemed that way to you. Apparently, even though I quoted the question I was replying to inches above that posted opinion, it wasn't obvious that I was answering Machamp the Champion who was asking me about my opinion? I see. Because the only explanation for me doing that (this is a recurring theme with me now...) is obviously trying to distract you all and point someone else as scum, it's just so impossible I could be answering someone's question --- a question that specifically asked me to state my opinion on who I thought was suspicious.

And all I was trying to say was that no one made mention of your claim since you've posted it, everyone was focused on suspecting me, after all. There wasn't a single debate on gauging if you completely told the truth. As the AA games said, "It is only right that we give every claim a fair shake." In other words, a proper discussion, whether it ends in accepting or rejecting the claim. The past few days, it's only been on mine, and everyone has stated their opinion at least, even if it was negative. But your claim? No discussion. Am I to believe that unlike mine, your claim didn't warrant or need a discussion at all? How nice.

Porygon-X said:
As I keep repeating, what was your plan if we didn't believe it? And if you insist on being honest, why the heck did you ask us if we believed it or not in the first place?

My plan is what has occurred over the past few days (because you guys not believing it is exactly what happened): trying to convince you guys that it's actually possible that the revealed role is really my role. But it looks like you're all already set on thinking it was fake and no matter what I say or do, have said and done... you weren't and aren't going to think otherwise.

For you, the role is fake due to how Cobalt Phoenix posted it. Your reason is that because he posted it so easily and openly, the role could only be fake. This is the only possibility that you guys are accepting, and you're all so set on it... that you just cannot think that the possibility that the role Cobalt Phoenix posted is actually my true role, could exist --- and in fact, it's what happened.

But because that scenario is an impossibility in all your minds... when I'm claiming that role as the truth, you think I'm lying, even though in my view I am not.

So I asked first if you believed the role --- if you thought that it's possible it could be true. Because if you thought it could be possible, then if I claimed it was the truth, I wouldn't be immediately shot down as a liar.

But as I have found out: no, you guys don't think it possible at all. You treat the idea "The role Cobalt Phoenix posted is fake" as a confirmed basis. So you demand me to tell my true role, and only then would you not have a negative view of me. But I'm not giving you guys any? It's not that I refuse, it's because I can't.

Because it's already there right in front of you guys. You just refuse to believe it could possibly be... and actually IS the truth.

The result? You think I'm lying and suspicious and think I'm a wolf. Which is what's occurred in the past few days.

Whew... But it looks like we're already on the point where I can no longer make you guys do a 180 degree on your view of me. So I'm going to stop here and accept that I could not get past your stubbornness. And from what I could discern from sillykyle, the only reason I could be posting opinions about the game is because I'm trying to distract you all, so... Yeah, I won't even try anymore. But if you think my opinions are still worth listening to, I'll be happy to oblige and tell before the day ends if I can make it back from work on time.

Since there's a possibility that this could be my last post, I'll just leave this statement for you guys: "There is never only one possibility that can serve as an explanation for an event or act. And the first possibility that you can think of isn't always necessarily the truth." Keep an open mind, guys.

See you all next time. I had fun.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

alex said:
Teal, you're going to need to say more than "Reinforce is town gtg".
I said that because I actually got to go, but I needed to prevent a lynch.
WanderingWolf said:
And you know this how? Also, why not mention it earlier? He's had a ton of suspicion since his first post, right at the beginning of the game.
Why I didn't mention it earlier is easy. Because I wanted to get as many reads as possible while people don't know that he is town. That's why I asked the questions about Reinforce and KoN, to get the stance of as many people as possible for a player I need to know is town.

How I know this? I guess I will be pressured anyway if I give a vague answer, so I will just answer how I know this. Through ability (my ability is not seer).

I also know something else.

What I do also know now, is that Keeper of Night is not town. I don't know if he is scum or serial killer. I'm more tending towards actual scum than serial killer, but it could be either.

If you who is reading this are town, please put your trust in my honest words today. I also suspect MtC and Athena, r3versor, Scorched Feathers, maybe Kecleon-X. But what I do know for sure, is that Reinforce is town and KoN is not.

##VOTE: Keeper of Night

If I am wrong, feel free to lynch me tomorrow if you like. I can say that because I know I'm not wrong anyway. :p

Also, if you are town, please re-read the responses to my questions with this information in mind. Read how people treat these two "suspects". Anyone to vote for Reinforce after I said that, if they are town, they must be insane? Why would a townie vote at that point for him, ever? Are they wolves who don't want to turn around the result of the day? Probably. At least one of Scorched and rev3rsor must be scum. No townie would do that. But we can lynch KoN now, because he is not town either.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

The next person to vote for Reinforce HAMMERS him, that means the lynch will take place after that vote.

Keep in mind that townie would never, ever do that in this situation. If you wonder what situation, read my above post. Obviously, anyone who still does that, will be generally treated as a wolf.
(Unless this town is really reta...)
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Teal said:
The next person to vote for Reinforce HAMMERS him, that means the lynch will take place after that vote.

Keep in mind that townie would never, ever do that in this situation. If you wonder what situation, read my above post. Obviously, anyone who still does that, will be generally treated as a wolf. (Unless this town is really reta...)

Big threat, you protecting your own kind (scum) Teal? You haven't given proof as to why you "know" Reinforce is town.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Why would I out myself as scum when "my scumpartner" is at L-1? Just how person do you think I am?
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

^ "person" in that post is automatical censory of re-tarded
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

If you would have actually put a little bit thought into the issue before posting, Jeremy, you would notice that what I have done today only makes sense from a townie's standpoint.

If we were scum I would have defended him much earlier, before he is about to get lynched. Scum can definitely not afford to lose members, much less than town. Right now the risk would be too high for a scum member to defend one of their own. With just one more vote, I would be revealed as scum too if we were scum. Instead of losing two wolves, the wolves would lose two. That would be a disaster for them.

Instead, I tried to gather stances on these two, so the town gets as much reads as possible. Why would I waste valuable time bothering with that if I was scum? I wouldn't even need reads etc. I tried to give as much time as possible for people to answer it because every response is valuable. However, when I posted in the morning, Reinforce was already at L-3 so I needed to step in.
 
RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 3 ends May 29 at 11 AM CDT.

Teal said:
The next person to vote for Reinforce HAMMERS him, that means the lynch will take place after that vote.

Keep in mind that townie would never, ever do that in this situation. If you wonder what situation, read my above post. Obviously, anyone who still does that, will be generally treated as a wolf.(Unless this town is really reta...)

This whole post is negated by the fact that we have to hammer to lynch - You can't say hammering is bad when we have to do it to lynch.

I'm not as fond of a Reinforce lynch as I am our other options (Keeper and sillykyle) however I will vote for Reinforce tonight because he is somewhat scummy and is the only one who has a chance of being lynched today.
 
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