Finished Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [AND THE WINNERS ARE...]
- Thread starter Teal
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RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
While I'm almost positive you're onto something here Drohn, let's talk about this and get the details right as much as we can.
Maybe I'm just slow, but if Camoclone copied SF's ability, why would SF be slimey? You could argue that Goodra is naturally slimey, but if he wasn't targeted, then why would he be slimey? And if Camoclone targeted him to copy his ability...then wouldn't Camoclone be slimey too? I think there's definitely some weird shenanigans going on, especially because TheGuy claims to have targeted Camoclone and got slimed.
My question is why Camoclone isn't actually slimed as well, and why SF was slimed. In this case, both unknowns are related to potential scum, and we don't know the inner workings of SF's actual role so for all we know this whole scenario could make sense. The only way to test these kinds of theories is to vote for one of the suspects. I think both are legitimate ways to go, but I'm more inclined to believe Camoclone is the scum rather than SF, but I think if Camo flips scum then SF is definitely a potential lynch the next time.
##Vote: Camoclone
Still, if you could answer the missing holes in the equation for me Drohn, that would be much appreciated. I'm not sure if I'm just missing something and not getting it, or if we just don't have all the information we need to be 100% sure.
EDIT: And you just posted saying SF used another ability on Camoclone as the reason SF was slimy. I think that's the most likely scenario and I didn't think of that. If that is the case, then SF is most definitely scum if Camoclone flips scum.
While I'm almost positive you're onto something here Drohn, let's talk about this and get the details right as much as we can.
Maybe I'm just slow, but if Camoclone copied SF's ability, why would SF be slimey? You could argue that Goodra is naturally slimey, but if he wasn't targeted, then why would he be slimey? And if Camoclone targeted him to copy his ability...then wouldn't Camoclone be slimey too? I think there's definitely some weird shenanigans going on, especially because TheGuy claims to have targeted Camoclone and got slimed.
My question is why Camoclone isn't actually slimed as well, and why SF was slimed. In this case, both unknowns are related to potential scum, and we don't know the inner workings of SF's actual role so for all we know this whole scenario could make sense. The only way to test these kinds of theories is to vote for one of the suspects. I think both are legitimate ways to go, but I'm more inclined to believe Camoclone is the scum rather than SF, but I think if Camo flips scum then SF is definitely a potential lynch the next time.
##Vote: Camoclone
Still, if you could answer the missing holes in the equation for me Drohn, that would be much appreciated. I'm not sure if I'm just missing something and not getting it, or if we just don't have all the information we need to be 100% sure.
EDIT: And you just posted saying SF used another ability on Camoclone as the reason SF was slimy. I think that's the most likely scenario and I didn't think of that. If that is the case, then SF is most definitely scum if Camoclone flips scum.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
Just as a little boost to this whole thing, Scorched could be a Muk, which would explain the slime. But that also means that something could happen with the slime that's bad, like him killing the people in slime X days after using it (or maybe even a bomb where he kills himself and kills everyone with the slime). If Scorched has the original slime, I think we should go after him.
##VOTE: Scorched Feathers
Drohn said:In the day update it said TheGuy and SF were slimy. Meaty then said he thought Camoclone was silenced by this slime, which was weird, because Camoclone wasn't mentioned or related to the slime anywhere in the game thread. They more than likely talked about it in the scum chat, however, which is why Meaty connected the slime to Camoclone. Back then I thought it was just being confused, but now I know why he connected the slime to Camoclone.
The slime itself is SF's ability, which he admitted himself. It's likely that everyone who targets someone with that ability is mentioned being covered by slime in the day update, since TheGuy targeted Camoclone and was slimy. It all goes back to Meaty slipping up, KoN somehow knowing about it and defending Camoclone and being reluctant to SF explaining his ability, and somehow all the scum knowing SF's ability (meaning SF is scum too).
Tl;dr: Scum team slipped over their own slime and fell face down.
Just as a little boost to this whole thing, Scorched could be a Muk, which would explain the slime. But that also means that something could happen with the slime that's bad, like him killing the people in slime X days after using it (or maybe even a bomb where he kills himself and kills everyone with the slime). If Scorched has the original slime, I think we should go after him.
##VOTE: Scorched Feathers
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
I assume copying SF didn't make Camoclone slimy, since it's not really targeting him. TheGuy targeted Camoclone and got slimy and SF targeted Camoclone and got slimy. It's the only logical thing I can think of.
I assume copying SF didn't make Camoclone slimy, since it's not really targeting him. TheGuy targeted Camoclone and got slimy and SF targeted Camoclone and got slimy. It's the only logical thing I can think of.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
OH Meaty probably also assumed Camoclone would get slimy from copying SF (which he knew Camoclone did, because of the scum chat) and is likely why he slipped up. Now that makes sense too. I guess Teal didn't make Camoclone slimy, because for copying someone you don't really come into contact or need to get close to them.
OH Meaty probably also assumed Camoclone would get slimy from copying SF (which he knew Camoclone did, because of the scum chat) and is likely why he slipped up. Now that makes sense too. I guess Teal didn't make Camoclone slimy, because for copying someone you don't really come into contact or need to get close to them.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
While I kinda disagree with the first point, I have to admit that the rest are making sense. Definitely a deep analysis, and I don't see why we shouldn't try it. It's very likely that at least one, if not more, people in your list are scum.
I'd like to hear Camoclone's defense on the matter before voting, since we're going after him.[/b]
Drohn said:
While I kinda disagree with the first point, I have to admit that the rest are making sense. Definitely a deep analysis, and I don't see why we shouldn't try it. It's very likely that at least one, if not more, people in your list are scum.
I'd like to hear Camoclone's defense on the matter before voting, since we're going after him.[/b]
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
Camo tends to post later today, I'm assuming he's at school ATM. But now that we're waiting for him, let's hear from Meaty and Fletchling, to see what they say. Meaty was able to post earlier and I'm 99% sure that SF is either being lazy(as usual) or slamming his head against his desk (or Meaty's, for slipping up).
Camo tends to post later today, I'm assuming he's at school ATM. But now that we're waiting for him, let's hear from Meaty and Fletchling, to see what they say. Meaty was able to post earlier and I'm 99% sure that SF is either being lazy(as usual) or slamming his head against his desk (or Meaty's, for slipping up).
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
KoN is my weakest scum read. He could have defended Camoclone, because he didn't find him scummy, direct attention to Jeremy for finding him scummy (which is weird, however, since he said SF wasn't lynch worthy for doing the same thing), and be reluctant to SF explaining his ability, because he really thinks they're town and it's bad if their abilities are known. Meaty KNEW about Camoclone copying the ability for sure and so did SF, he definitely was involved, because they wouldn't have talked about copying his ability if they didn't know it. Meaty's vote is also suspicious. KoN had the right answer ready too, which, combined with all the previous comments makes me about 98% sure he was involved and is scum too.
I'm fully convinced Camoclone, Meaty, and SF are scum.
KoN is my weakest scum read. He could have defended Camoclone, because he didn't find him scummy, direct attention to Jeremy for finding him scummy (which is weird, however, since he said SF wasn't lynch worthy for doing the same thing), and be reluctant to SF explaining his ability, because he really thinks they're town and it's bad if their abilities are known. Meaty KNEW about Camoclone copying the ability for sure and so did SF, he definitely was involved, because they wouldn't have talked about copying his ability if they didn't know it. Meaty's vote is also suspicious. KoN had the right answer ready too, which, combined with all the previous comments makes me about 98% sure he was involved and is scum too.
I'm fully convinced Camoclone, Meaty, and SF are scum.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
Well, let's just check PokeBeach after a nice long weekend of-
Holy Dodongo's Cavern, Batman, there's over a dozen new pages of information.
I'm doing my best to get caught up, I'm still not used to games this big.
...
After trying to at least get the TL;DR version of everything, here's what I found to be the best option so far:
I'll be posting again soon, once I'm fully caught up, and once I have developed my own theories.
Well, let's just check PokeBeach after a nice long weekend of-
Holy Dodongo's Cavern, Batman, there's over a dozen new pages of information.
I'm doing my best to get caught up, I'm still not used to games this big.
...
After trying to at least get the TL;DR version of everything, here's what I found to be the best option so far:
So, ##Vote: CamocloneLuispipe8 said:
I'll be posting again soon, once I'm fully caught up, and once I have developed my own theories.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
Where am I "reluctant" to let SF explain? I simply stated the obvious. Having two potential townie power-roles claim simply to satisfy the day update flavor isn't exactly good for us. >_>
And if we could have kept SF hidden, I stand by what I said before. We could have gotten a future attacker sticky (if they thought he was a power role) and lynched a scum.
...But is your case really based on Meaty being confused?
And if you thought he was confused before, what made you change your mind?
In fact, the one major reason I doubt the connection at all is how Meaty was going after Camo yesterday.
What do you mean anyway, I somehow knew about it? I brought up a reasonable and valid point that anybody could have done.
So, I'd like to hear the story retold from:
Camoclone
Scorched Feathers
Meaty
TheGuy
Drohn
Celever
Yes, hi Celever, you're on the list too. Don't get quiet now just because we're looking at new targets.
##UNVOTE: Celever
@Drohn's recent post:
You had bad logic going agaist Camoclone at the time. At least this time it's gotten better. But you're pointing out that scum hunting is scummy, like Celever did yesterday, and it doesn't make sense.
The difference between Jeremy and SF is, after I questioned Jeremy, he started acting even scummier. SF, on the other hand, after being questioned, shaped up, got more active, and gave a reasonable claim.
I do hope you see the difference.
Also, "right answer"? You mean thinking there could be a poke that copies abilities? Honestly, if that thought didn't occur to you once before my post, then it really should have.
I'm pretty sure you didn't read the post. I pointed out the bad logic behind Camo's lynch, but questioned him on what I did find suspicious. Unlike you, however, I do not find it necessary to attack somebody over one post.Drohn said:
...Huh?
Where am I "reluctant" to let SF explain? I simply stated the obvious. Having two potential townie power-roles claim simply to satisfy the day update flavor isn't exactly good for us. >_>
I'm sorry, but I pointed that out because it was blatantly obvious something like that could exist. If I were scum, it'd be really stupid of me to reveal a team member's role. There's always a seer or semi-seer. Any good scum would know that extra information toward town = bad.
Again you're wrong with the whole "no-explaining" thing. Of course I want an explanation. I simply didn't want to put us in the position of revealing prs this early.Drohn said:
And if we could have kept SF hidden, I stand by what I said before. We could have gotten a future attacker sticky (if they thought he was a power role) and lynched a scum.
I do see the connection between Meaty and Camoclone at this point.Drohn said:
...But is your case really based on Meaty being confused?
And if you thought he was confused before, what made you change your mind?
In fact, the one major reason I doubt the connection at all is how Meaty was going after Camo yesterday.
You keep bringing up me being reluctant for SF to claim. As that is your major evidence against me, I almost hate to keep bringing up how wrong you are. If that really is your reason, then why are you only pushing for SF? Why not TheGuy? I didn't want him to claim either.
What do you mean anyway, I somehow knew about it? I brought up a reasonable and valid point that anybody could have done.
We don't know for sure that Camo can copy abilities. I rather wait for his explanation than make theories now.Drohn said:
Meaty did have a slip, that's true. It could mean nothing, but reading back, I'm not so sure. When we see his reaction we'll know more. SF, however, I'm not so sure about. It is entirely possible that the slime transfers, and that Camo targeted SF who was then targeted by TheGuy (doesn't explain why Camo wasn't revealed in the day update, however. Unless he has an ability that prevents that, which seems like a scum role). Or there's a redirector, which could have forced TheGuy to target SF instead of Camoclone (doesn't explain Meaty, unless he was simply confused).Luispipe8 said:Camo tends to post later today, I'm assuming he's at school ATM. But now that we're waiting for him, let's hear from Meaty and Fletchling, to see what they say. Meaty was able to post earlier and I'm 99% sure that SF is either being lazy(as usual) or slamming his head against his desk (or Meaty's, for slipping up).
So, I'd like to hear the story retold from:
Camoclone
Scorched Feathers
Meaty
TheGuy
Drohn
Celever
Yes, hi Celever, you're on the list too. Don't get quiet now just because we're looking at new targets.
##UNVOTE: Celever
@Drohn's recent post:
You had bad logic going agaist Camoclone at the time. At least this time it's gotten better. But you're pointing out that scum hunting is scummy, like Celever did yesterday, and it doesn't make sense.
The difference between Jeremy and SF is, after I questioned Jeremy, he started acting even scummier. SF, on the other hand, after being questioned, shaped up, got more active, and gave a reasonable claim.
I do hope you see the difference.
Also, "right answer"? You mean thinking there could be a poke that copies abilities? Honestly, if that thought didn't occur to you once before my post, then it really should have.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
I was at school, not being quiet. Check the thread on the last weekday we had and you'll see that I left and got back at roughly the same time as now!
KoN, how I meant to retell the story? I'm happy to do so, I'm just not exactly sure what you mean. None of my posts are a part of Drohn's off-the-wall theory...
Drohn, until you can give a real explanation about why Camo is not sticky, I'm not lynching him. A theory with that amount of assumptions (could Meaty not have just got a bit muddled up?) will crumble when one hole is poked in it, and this is my hole. If it were an ability, it would activate whenever someone targets SF. Not "comes into contact with SF" because there would have to be a definitive line drawn somewhere, and that is not how Werewolf roles are designed -- all roles are designed subjectively, and if a role is effected differently by a certain item or role it is clearly stated when they receive the role. That's just how it works, and Teal is very experienced I believe -- he would know that this is how it works. The only way that this would be possible is if SF received a list of every single role in the game and is told what does activate his Gooey and what doesn't, and that is a very broken role, and as such is very unlikely to be real.
I would just like to say that this whole theory stems from the thesis that SF is Goodra. He claimed it, but that doesn't mean he is it. As such, I want to say one thing:
SF FULL ROLE REVEAL NOW OTHERWISE WE WILL LYNCH YOU
I will post further thoughts on it after the role reveal, except for if KoN tells me what he means by "my side of the story".
I was at school, not being quiet. Check the thread on the last weekday we had and you'll see that I left and got back at roughly the same time as now!
KoN, how I meant to retell the story? I'm happy to do so, I'm just not exactly sure what you mean. None of my posts are a part of Drohn's off-the-wall theory...
Drohn, until you can give a real explanation about why Camo is not sticky, I'm not lynching him. A theory with that amount of assumptions (could Meaty not have just got a bit muddled up?) will crumble when one hole is poked in it, and this is my hole. If it were an ability, it would activate whenever someone targets SF. Not "comes into contact with SF" because there would have to be a definitive line drawn somewhere, and that is not how Werewolf roles are designed -- all roles are designed subjectively, and if a role is effected differently by a certain item or role it is clearly stated when they receive the role. That's just how it works, and Teal is very experienced I believe -- he would know that this is how it works. The only way that this would be possible is if SF received a list of every single role in the game and is told what does activate his Gooey and what doesn't, and that is a very broken role, and as such is very unlikely to be real.
I would just like to say that this whole theory stems from the thesis that SF is Goodra. He claimed it, but that doesn't mean he is it. As such, I want to say one thing:
SF FULL ROLE REVEAL NOW OTHERWISE WE WILL LYNCH YOU
I will post further thoughts on it after the role reveal, except for if KoN tells me what he means by "my side of the story".
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
I simply didn't want you to leave us without your opinions on the matter.
I simply didn't want you to leave us without your opinions on the matter.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
Oh, is what I've done sufficient then?
Also I'm just pointing out that this theory isn't completely dead in the water, but if we do lynch one of those 4 people and they turn out to be scum, please don't immediately lynch another of the 4 without good reason nor completely trust Drohn. It could easily be either a coincidence that they were included in this or a completely elaborate buss leading to the lynching of one of his team mates (think PMJ in ROT)
Oh, is what I've done sufficient then?
Also I'm just pointing out that this theory isn't completely dead in the water, but if we do lynch one of those 4 people and they turn out to be scum, please don't immediately lynch another of the 4 without good reason nor completely trust Drohn. It could easily be either a coincidence that they were included in this or a completely elaborate buss leading to the lynching of one of his team mates (think PMJ in ROT)
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
The whole point is that copying isn't targeting. You don't do anything to him, or take anything from him; you just copy him. The fact is still that TheGuy targeted Camoclone and got slimy, Meaty knew Camoclone copied SF and even assumed he was slimy too. Both knew SF's ability, since it was assumed Camoclone would become slimy, meaning SF was involved (not because of a seer else the seer would be slimy). SF also got slimy himself, meaning he did something else to Camoclone so a redirector cannot be the case.
I am very confident in this. Thinking about it, it might be best to lynch SF first, so we get the full details of his role.
##Unvote: Camoclone
##Vote: Scorched Feathers
@Celever: I get you think it might be a bus. I can claim my role if you want more confidence in me, but only if others also want me to claim. It will also show soon enough if not all 4 are scum from the lynches. My role is pretty solid and easily proven, but I only want to do it if really needed.
The whole point is that copying isn't targeting. You don't do anything to him, or take anything from him; you just copy him. The fact is still that TheGuy targeted Camoclone and got slimy, Meaty knew Camoclone copied SF and even assumed he was slimy too. Both knew SF's ability, since it was assumed Camoclone would become slimy, meaning SF was involved (not because of a seer else the seer would be slimy). SF also got slimy himself, meaning he did something else to Camoclone so a redirector cannot be the case.
I am very confident in this. Thinking about it, it might be best to lynch SF first, so we get the full details of his role.
##Unvote: Camoclone
##Vote: Scorched Feathers
@Celever: I get you think it might be a bus. I can claim my role if you want more confidence in me, but only if others also want me to claim. It will also show soon enough if not all 4 are scum from the lynches. My role is pretty solid and easily proven, but I only want to do it if really needed.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
Don't ignore my points, Drohn.
Don't ignore my points, Drohn.
RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 2: ends Thursday 2nd]
What points? Basically all you said was "I didn't do that" or "I didn't mean it that way".
SF was asked by PMJ to explain what happened, and you said it was a bad idea for him to explain.
Camoclone was being targeted and you shifted focus to Jeremy for the same reasons you didn't want SF to be lynched for.
You said:
The fact the first person that doesn't see the logic behind the whole case is on the scum list is also note worthy. Celever always goes against me for some reason, but even he must recognise something is off. Why do you want to shift focus on him anyway? Seems like you're tunnelling him with no good reason. Because he didn't reply as soon as you wanted to?
I'm still confident that the 4 of you are scum. I do want to ask everyone to change your vote to Scorched Feathers. I'm convinced all 4 are scum, but I think finding out what his mysterious ability is right now is a first priority. I also want him to c/p his role asap, though I won't have much confidence in it, since he can edit it easily.
What points? Basically all you said was "I didn't do that" or "I didn't mean it that way".
SF was asked by PMJ to explain what happened, and you said it was a bad idea for him to explain.
Camoclone was being targeted and you shifted focus to Jeremy for the same reasons you didn't want SF to be lynched for.
You said:
The difference is that you never questioned SF, because you didn't find that behaviour lynch worthy, yet when your scum buddy is in danger you feel the need to find someone else to focus on for whatever reason.
The fact the first person that doesn't see the logic behind the whole case is on the scum list is also note worthy. Celever always goes against me for some reason, but even he must recognise something is off. Why do you want to shift focus on him anyway? Seems like you're tunnelling him with no good reason. Because he didn't reply as soon as you wanted to?
I'm still confident that the 4 of you are scum. I do want to ask everyone to change your vote to Scorched Feathers. I'm convinced all 4 are scum, but I think finding out what his mysterious ability is right now is a first priority. I also want him to c/p his role asap, though I won't have much confidence in it, since he can edit it easily.
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