Finished Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Game Over! Town Wins!

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

And the fact that I was asleep when BV really slipped really doesn't help you out.

 

[Athena]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

@Athena: Do we have to unvote if we voted Brave?

Nope, those votes are all simply null.

 

[TwistedTurtwig]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Well, I suppose that's one way to get rid of scum, heheh.

Am I the only one here who's still suspicious of Camoclone? After all, he was one of the people pushing not one, but two different lynches instead of Brave today. His actions could have easily been intended to divert attention away from someone who we now know was scum.

I'm still on the fence in regards to Lenny. If I'm right about Camo, then that could mean he's innocent, but there's also the possibility that it was a bus. Brave voting for Lenny too seems to support that, as if he was making a last-ditch effort to mess with the town. But I'll need some more information to go off of before I make any solid decisions about Lenny's alignment.

But I am confident enough to do this:
##VOTE: Camoclone

I consider this quite funny considering you yourself never voted for Brave.

I'm a proponent of "innocent until proven guilty." Since Brave couldn't be bothered to post at all until last night, when I happened to be asleep, I held off from voting him. After seeing what he did post, I almost definitely would have voted for him. But that's no longer a possibility, obviously. That's all there is to it.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

I consider this quite funny considering you yourself never voted for Brave.

I'm a proponent of "innocent until proven guilty." Since Brave couldn't be bothered to post at all until last night, when I happened to be asleep, I held off from voting him. After seeing what he did post, I almost definitely would have voted for him. But that's no longer a possibility, obviously. That's all there is to it.

So how does this not apply to me as well?

 

[Jeremy1026]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

##SUSPECT: Lenny

 

[TwistedTurtwig]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

I'm a proponent of "innocent until proven guilty." Since Brave couldn't be bothered to post at all until last night, when I happened to be asleep, I held off from voting him. After seeing what he did post, I almost definitely would have voted for him. But that's no longer a possibility, obviously. That's all there is to it.

So how does this not apply to me as well?

I didn't vote for anyone while waiting . You pursued two other players that you believed were better candidates for the lynch.

 

[TwistedTurtwig]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

##SUSPECT: Lenny

Care to elaborate on your vote, or are you going to just bandwagon?

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Alright, I'll play your game. Responses in bold.

I don't have any information from during the night and I didn't receive any notification of anything being done to me from role redirections or things like that. Not sure why scum would redirect to me, or maybe the redirection was entirely random? I don't know.

With that said, I think if we don't have any concrete leads we can look into the people who are just active enough to not be considered inactive but also not on anybody's radar.

He just wants to look into inactives and rely on abilities rather than scum tells.

You clearly didn't even read what I was saying. First of all, I said IF we don't have concrete leads. We did get some leads shortly after I made this post. I also said people who are NOT considered inactive, but just active enough. Once again, you're interpreting it in a way that already confirms your hypothesis of me. Typical confirmation bias.

Yes, I have been lurking but my not posting until now was not without reason. I was waiting, gathering info for this post. I think it's strange that Lenny was not alerted that he had been targeted by Vom's ability. In fact, it almost seems like a lie. Lenny, did you really not get alerted for anything? If not, then why did SS get alerted and not you?

VOTE: Lenny

The classic 1v1 dual scum is being illustrated here. The scum create a 1v1 situation in hopes that after the others lynch the other would become soft cleared. The thing that I found wrong with BV earlier was how aggressive he was. A town BV doesn't start wagons but rather follows others. While there is a huge learning curve in WW I didn't think that was the case. Notice how BV has more info than us. It's from the scum chat.

I like how you're so sure of yourself, when in fact, literally everything you just said there is pure speculation. There is zero evidence to suggest that there is the "1v1 dual scum". Where do you see BV having more info? In fact, he stated the wrong information. He thought Vom targeted me when it was in fact SS who did. This whole point is completely off. This alone is a decent argument for Brave Vesperia being scum, but it doesn't tie to me at all. I like how you make these arguments about BV being so obviously scum after that's revealed. You didn't vote for him either.

Okay, just gonna say it. I'm Chuck, and I am the receiver of Squirtle Squad's Steelix. However, I do not know exactly who did it, but Athena's PM leads me to believe it was scum.

"Hey, look out! Oh no, it’s too late, some dastardly villain stole the Pokéball of your beloved Primeape and forcefully traded it to some guy named Squirtle Squad. Now he is the permanent owner and trainer of your Pokémon, and you get instead…

Chuck’s Steelix"

I have removed the description of the ability because I do not wish for anyone to know (unless SS already posted it, I can't remember) until the time comes.

@Lenny: I don't 100% believe you. It just seems really weird to me that you didn't get any info. ##VOTE: Lenny

BV continue to pursues Lenny for a weird reason.

This isn't an argument. It's a statement. I agree it was weird that he kept pursuing me. Now how does that relate to me being scum?

I don't see what's so hard for you to believe. For the majority of night abilities, the target of said abilties is unaware of being targeted. Unless there is a direct and immediate effect, such as poison or vote weight change or other game mechanic related thing, the target is usually not informed of being the target of a night ability, and definitely not who targeted them. Your reasoning for my lynch has no proof behind it and is extremely suspect.

I'm not convinced you're scum but you're a strong candidate. Honestly, I'm hoping you paraphrased because while it'd be great if scum got modkilled, we can't afford losing townies over easily avoidable modkills. Paraphrase people, don't kill yourself!

Lenny doesn't vote. Lenny never votes for BV even though he is a "strong candidate". He is hoping for some miracle to happen and his scum partner will be saved.

Camo never votes for BV even though earlier in this post he claims BV was so obviously not behaving like he was town. Huh, odd. I said strong candidate because he was the best lynch. I was not convinced at the time, many people weren't. I wasn't ready to place a vote on someone who may or may not have been modkilled either, turbolynching someone while they're on the modkill chopping block is stupid.

Yes, lynch the person who the leader of scum was going after before any heat was put on him. That really makes perfect sense, MtC.

This doesn't make the BV thing seemed planned at all.

Once again, confirmation bias. You're seeing it unfold the way you want it to in your head. There's an equally likely chance, if not greater, that he was being aggressive with his vote to try to lead the town. You can't possibly tell me that every time a scum has voted for a non-scum in past games, the first conclusion is the "1v1 dual scum" scenario. BV was aggressive towards me before any pressure was put on him so it wasn't a desperate attempt at clearing me. I was already a lynch candidate before his posts so why would a scum partner push it even more? That makes zero sense and you have yet to address that illogical part of this whole "1v1 dual scum" scenario.

@BigfootAUS: I never said I must be town, but I am implying that it's highly improbable that a now known scum would bring any attention to another scum buddy, go as far as to vote for him, have other people end up voting for him, never retract the vote or try to push it towards somebody else. No, I'm not confirmed town but I'd say there is evidence to support I am. I know it's actually a potential scum tactic to do something like that (I forget if it has an actual name) but like I said, evidence points to that not being the case. If that's your argument for voting for me, there's an equal (if not higher) chance for that not being the case.

Again. Look at how planned the BV thing was.

Wow, you're literally not saying anything here. There is no argument. There is simply an opinion with zero backing behind it. What about this post makes you say there is a greater chance that this was planned? Elaborate in your posts and actually present arguments. Stop hiding behind poor rhetoric. Present your arguments in a logical manner so I can actually dispute them.

The last thing left to address is BV's potential use of a scum tactic. It is such a high risk, extremely low reward tactic especially this early in the game to do that. There is nothing to gain from trying to clear me as town right now. Alerting more attention to me when I'm already considered a potential lynch target is completely backwards and illogical thinking, something you can't just explain by "he's a newbie wolf". I'd also like to remind you that BV attacked me BEFORE his desperate moments or anybody accusing him of being scum.

Why we aren't instead looking into the 3 other players that voted along with BV is beyond me. I doubt all 3 are scum because that's stupidly obvious, but the chances of one of them being scum trying to help BV and reinforce their vote is likely. I haven't gotten a particularly scummy vibe from Camoclone but MtC's weak arguments against me and Keeper's jump on me by simply agreeing with the arguments against me, which weren't actually specified when he voted against me so for all we know he was referring to both BV's argument and MtC.

I just see OMGUS here. In response to the thing at the top it's not that unlikely and is a common tactic. How would there not be much to be gained if you were cleared as town?

In my 3 recent games of WW I have not seen this tactic been used even once. Personal experience does not represent whether it is common or not, but I highly doubt it is a common tactic. It is a reckless tactic with high risk and little reward. Soft-cleared is different than full-cleared. At the end of the day, whether or not it clears me is not the point. The point is actually having an argument against why I'm scum, rather than saying "you're not cleared". It is not OMGUS. It is my opinion. Anything I say, you will try to turn against me because you're tunneling. I presented logical arguments as to why MtC or Keeper could be scum. I'm not simply voting for the people who voted for me. In fact, I didn't even vote! I brought up ideas! Nice try, though.

My vote sticks for now although r3v is also scum.

Also, nice bandwagon Jeremy. Stellar performance.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

So how does this not apply to me as well?

I didn't vote for anyone while waiting . You pursued two other players that you believed were better candidates for the lynch.

I also was asleep during Braves slip. I pursued the other players before Brave slipped. Therefore your argument is flawed and invalid.

 

[TwistedTurtwig]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

I didn't vote for anyone while waiting . You pursued two other players that you believed were better candidates for the lynch.

I also was asleep during Braves slip. I pursued the other players before Brave slipped. Therefore your argument is flawed and invalid.

Alright, fair enough. You make a good point.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Ok. Humor me Lenny. Vote for someone.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Let's play connect the dots. First one to get it gets a like.

r3v3rsor ... Lenny

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Ok. Humor me Lenny. Vote for someone.

Lol, I have to vote for someone why? Because you said so? You didn't even address any of my responses so why should I give you the respect of answering your question?

But I'll still play along. If I had to vote for someone, it'd be MtC but I wouldn't do it before he responds to my counter-arguments. I can see where his vote came from but I logically disputed it and I think he should be able to see how he was in the wrong. If he doesn't accept that and chooses to tunnel me, then I will go ahead and vote for him.

I also wouldn't mind voting for you, but you seem to genuinely respond to me, even though I disagree with what you say. I will argue against you to the best of my ability and continue doing so until you understand me. If you refuse to understand me or respond/acknowledge my responses, then I see you as a lynch candidate as well.

Talk to me, not at me. Present arguments as if I was innocent until proven guilty. Doing it the other way around diminishes from your argument because you present very little evidence and are going off pure speculation.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Still no vote... Why? That's towns biggest weapon.


I won't answer your points yet because I see no reason to. Your case has changed. The reason why you should answer my question is because you are the current lynch candidate. I am not. This thing just seems seems like OMGUS to me.

@r3v3rsor Please post something of substance sometime soon.

 

[Luispipe8]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

@PMJ: Derp, then it's confirmed. Silly me. :v
@Reinforce: I actually think your scenario of the Rocket Admins is the most probable one now. Anime is just not a good reference point for Team Rocket.
@Cinesra: same as PMJ.
@Camo: I'm still dubious of Lenny. Rev, on the other hand, is acting extremely similar to last game. He even used that same tactic of "posting later, busy" several times in the Ministry Chat, so that's a lead for me.

##Vote:rev3rsor

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Still no vote... Why? That's towns biggest weapon.


I won't answer your points yet because I see no reason to. Your case has changed. The reason why you should answer my question is because you are the current lynch candidate. I am not. This thing just seems seems like OMGUS to me.

@r3v3rsor Please post something of substance sometime soon.

Because if I actually place a vote on MtC without proper reasoning behind it then it IS OMGUS. I don't have the proper evidence to back a vote on MtC so I don't vote for him until he responds to me. If he responds in a way I feel does not make him come off as scum, I will not vote for him.

Basically every person I currently suspect has a vote on me so you're going to cry OMGUS on whoever I vote. Which is why I want to have proper reasoning behind my votes. The only person I actually think presented the most obviously scummy behavior just now is Jeremy with his sudden bandwagon.

He needs to explain his vote and I'll pressure him with a vote. Happy, Camo?

##Vote: Jeremy1026

Once again, I'd like to elaborate that this is NOT OMGUS because I know someone will try to say that it is. Jeremy1026 bandwagoned without saying what he thinks or who he agrees with. That alone is shifty behavior. Rev3rsor is second on the list of shifty behavior.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

I'm happy. Jeremy isn't acting like last game. I might have to flip a count between you, Jeremy, and r3v.

BY the way OMGUS doesn't need a vote to be OMGUS.

 

[Lenny]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

I'm happy. Jeremy isn't acting like last game. I might have to flip a count between you, Jeremy, and r3v.

BY the way OMGUS doesn't need a vote to be OMGUS.

Fair enough, I'm not an expert on the mafia vocabulary. Pulling off of wikipedia's definition, we get: "OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you," which claims OMGUS applies during a vote, hence why I said what I said. I see it clearly said sometimes, I did not know it applied without a vote lol.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

##UNVOTE: LENNY
##VOTE: R3V3RSOR

 

[Chaos Jackal]

RE: Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Day 2 is here! And so is Team Rocket?!

Stick to one of the two Camo, won't you?

I'll give you a break Lenny, for the time being. I am not entirely satisfied with your answers, but I'll address my concerns later on.

##UNVOTE: Lenny

Jeremy seems like a way too obvious lynch. This mindless bandwagoning is something no wolf should ever do. Either the entire wolf team is made up from players that aren't very experienced with their role or Jeremy made a vote without actually consulting the rest of his team... I dunno, stuff like this I'm not really willing to follow, they are way too vague.

rev is doing absolutely nothing. That much is clear. Same goes for Mr. Muffin. Either of them could be scum, but there's a more than fair chance that they aren't. I'd be more willing to try rev, but theres Camoclone in the way. I don't trust Camoclone. Call it bias (and maybe you're right to an extent), but I don't like how he's reacted to most of the game today. He skimmed over accusations towards Brave, stating that Lenny was more suspicious in a situation where, at least for me, Brave was a case solid enough to end the Day there and then while Lenny was a case based off much more vague accusations and speculation. Here I face the typical dilemma of whether or not to consider Camoclone suspicious, by far my greatest point of indecision every game.

I'll give things a bit more breathing space for a bit.