XY X / Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

[leecario]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

As far as I know, there've only been four mascots with typings that were unique at the time: Dialga, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem.

*five

 

[Flys Gone 2071]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

Why not?

As I said before, it's a matter of concept. If xerneas represents life and creation, and yveltal represents death and destruction, it would break that concept if one of them were stronger than the other, after all, you can't destroy if you don't create first, and can't create if you don't destroy first; it's an infinite loop.
From that standpoint, dark/flying and grass/fairy make sense, because:
flying->grass
flying=fairy
dark=grass
dark<-fairy
As you can see, the types are mutually balanced, and none is stronger than the other.
If we try the more "concept appropiate" combination poison/flying we get:
flying->grass
flying=fairy
poison->grass
poison->fairy
Yveltal would do 4x damage with all it's STABs to xerneas, where xerneas would do 0.5x damage to yveltal with it's STABs. Translating that to the concept, the entirety of the pokemon world would be dead.
As in the case of kyogre/groudon you mentioned some time ago, it's a case of gameplay and story segregation: the concept of the pokemon and lore of the universe don't match with the reality (mechanics) of the game, it's an inconsistency, and it should be avoided when possible.

1. There is no "Creation and Destruction" theme confirmed. Its just a rumor (if you can call it a rumor, its more like what the fandom wants) with no evidence to back it up.

2. Typing doesn't matter in the myths of the legendary Pokemon. If not Kyogre would have destroyed Groundon and the Water would reign over the Land. Dialga would have beaten Palkia and time and space wouldn't be just 1 whole.

So it isn't necessary for the typings to be equal. If GF wants to make them equal, they do it. If we take examples from the Pokemon myths, it doesn't matter if the Pokemon have type advantage or disadvantage.

PS: It would actually be x4 with Poison and x2 with Flying not x4. Xerneas would hit for normal damage with Fairy type STAB (only Fire and Psychic are rumored to resist Fairy).

 

[DrEspeon]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

The scenery behind both legendary Pokemon could definitely be foreshadowing at their typing. The thread starter has a good theory. I’ve heard about the rumored Yosei(Fairy) type and I had mixed feelings about it initially. I would have preferred a Good type to match the Aku type but I’ll be acceptant of it. Anyways, if it turns out to be legitimate then I'd prefer Xerneas to be Grass/Fairy and Yveltal Flying/Fairy. Therefore they would both introduce the new type and I think its befitting due to their origin ^^

I think it would be a stretch to make Yveltal a fairy type, but I could see it happen.

 

[professorlight]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

1. There is no "Creation and Destruction" theme confirmed. Its just a rumor (if you can call it a rumor, its more like what the fandom wants) with no evidence to back it up.

2. Typing doesn't matter in the myths of the legendary Pokemon. If not Kyogre would have destroyed Groundon and the Water would reign over the Land. Dialga would have beaten Palkia and time and space wouldn't be just 1 whole.

So it isn't necessary for the typings to be equal. If GF wants to make them equal, they do it. If we take examples from the Pokemon myths, it doesn't matter if the Pokemon have type advantage or disadvantage.

PS: It would actually be x4 with Poison and x2 with Flying not x4. Xerneas would hit for normal damage with Fairy type STAB (only Fire and Psychic are rumored to resist Fairy).

1. you are right, there is no theme confirmed. In fact, there is absolutely nothing confirmed about this two pokemon; besides their names, we have absolutely nothing to go on, yet here we are, speculating from the tiny breadcrumbs of clues gamefreak might or might not have slipped for us in what little they have given us so far. So if we shouldn't theorize anything without evidence, we have exhausted the subject with the conclusion:
xerneas is (not necessarily lives) in a forest (both in X's box and in the trailer) and yveltal is (not necessarily lives) in the sky (both in Y's box and in the trailer). period.
2. as I said before, gameplay and story segregation. There are lots of cases out there. If the mechanics of a game and the world it builds don't match, then whatever sense the world might make is lost. If a legendary is opposed to another, but neither of them ever comes on top, despite an objective advantage on one side, I call that bad world construction.
The pokemon franchise has been dragging several cases of this since throughout the years, and only lately they have started to fix some. It's basically the same case of a deus ex machina, where you ask "why?" and the answer is "because."
-"In emerald, why kyogre couldn't beat groudon with its moves in the overworld, but if you have a pokemon battle between them later groudon is KO in one or two turns? "
-"because one thing is a battle in the overworld and another is a battle with the battle interface"
-"and why is that, in the context of a story?"
-"because".
The fact is that yes, GF can do whatever the hell they want to do with pokemon, it's their creation, after all. But if you build a world, with it's own internal rules and logic, and then sometimes s*** (sorry, couldn't think of a better word) all over them, then what's the point of making a world that makes sense in the first place? if they come tomorrow and tell us that now there are 4 stages of evolution, that's OK, it could be explained, but if they tell us that pikachu now doesn't evolve into raichu anymore, and that it now evolves into zapdos, wouldn't make sense to anyone at all. In the first example, they are expanding the rules, in the second they just ignore them.
3. you are right about the typings, but still yveltal would have 4x advantage over xerneas with a poison STAB. see above for why that's a bad thing.

 

[Flys Gone 2071]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

1. There is no "Creation and Destruction" theme confirmed. Its just a rumor (if you can call it a rumor, its more like what the fandom wants) with no evidence to back it up.

2. Typing doesn't matter in the myths of the legendary Pokemon. If not Kyogre would have destroyed Groundon and the Water would reign over the Land. Dialga would have beaten Palkia and time and space wouldn't be just 1 whole.

So it isn't necessary for the typings to be equal. If GF wants to make them equal, they do it. If we take examples from the Pokemon myths, it doesn't matter if the Pokemon have type advantage or disadvantage.

PS: It would actually be x4 with Poison and x2 with Flying not x4. Xerneas would hit for normal damage with Fairy type STAB (only Fire and Psychic are rumored to resist Fairy).

1. You are right, there is no theme confirmed. In fact, there is absolutely nothing confirmed about this two pokemon; besides their names, we have absolutely nothing to go on, yet here we are, speculating from the tiny breadcrumbs of clues Game Freak might or might not have slipped for us in what little they have given us so far. So if we shouldn't theorize anything without evidence, we have exhausted the subject with the conclusion:
Xerneas is (not necessarily lives) in a forest (both in X's box and in the trailer) and Yveltal is (not necessarily lives) in the sky (both in Y's box and in the trailer). period. I didn't mean that speculation is wrong but if you use all your arguments come from a speculation with nothing at all from this Gen or previous Gens to back it up, you can't say that the typings must be even. I see the point for them to be even but I don't believe that they put "being even" over the Pokemon's design (of course it fits those types but there are types that can actually fit better). Xerneas could be better Steel, Ground, Psychic than Fairy or Grass but they aren't just going to through the typing just for them to be "even".
2. As I said before, gameplay and story segregation. There are lots of cases out there. If the mechanics of a game and the world it builds don't match, then whatever sense the world might make is lost. If a legendary is opposed to another, but neither of them ever comes on top, despite an objective advantage on one side, I call that bad world construction.
The pokemon franchise has been dragging several cases of this since throughout the years, and only lately they have started to fix some. It's basically the same case of a deus ex machina, where you ask "why?" and the answer is "because."
-"In emerald, why Kyogre couldn't beat Groudon with its moves in the overworld, but if you have a pokemon battle between them later Groudon is KO in one or two turns? "
-"Because one thing is a battle in the overworld and another is a battle with the battle interface"
-"And why is that, in the context of a story?"
-"Because". That is exactly what I meant. They don't need for them to be even in typing for it to be a "glorious" or "magnificent" or "pair" battle. They can make it a good battle ignoring type advantages (for the story-line/anime that is).
The fact is that yes, GF can do whatever the hell they want to do with pokemon, it's their creation, after all. But if you build a world, with it's own internal rules and logic, and then sometimes s*** (sorry, couldn't think of a better word) all over them, then what's the point of making a world that makes sense in the first place? if they come tomorrow and tell us that now there are 4 stages of evolution, that's OK, it could be explained, but if they tell us that Pikachu now doesn't evolve into Raichu anymore, and that it now evolves into Zapdos, wouldn't make sense to anyone at all. In the first example, they are expanding the rules, in the second they just ignore them.
3. You are right about the typings, but still Yveltal would have 4x advantage over Xerneas with a poison STAB. See above for why that's a bad thing.

Answers in bold.

 

[Thief]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

^Hasn't the "guardians/gods of the sky/forest/water" theme been used already? I don't really think that will be a critical plot point, it just gives you a hint on where the legendary lives. I still think that the legendaries will be artificial, created by the enemy teams from gen6, mostly based on their strange looks and that infamous rainbowy DNA helix in the Japanese box art.

Maybe you guys should consider that maybe the evil team had nothing to do with their creation. That being said, I'm going on the same idea of them being created by humans. Scientists could have created these creatures to establish some sort of balance within the ecosystem within the region. The evil team could just try to use them for their own benefit.

Your artificial Legendary idea is very nice.

Xerneas actually looks very natural to me. The only thing off about its design, are the rainbow crystals.

I think that they look unnatural. Xerneas seems like it could have once been a stag, but it's body definitely looks too altered for it to look completely natural. Even still, Xerneas' design reminds me of Dialga and he wasn't a creation; not by human hands anyways. Then again, it makes since for those Pokémon to have a metallic look since they represent space and time. Where as here we're talking about a forest and there is definitely something about DNA somewhere.

 

[AdamLambert]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

^Hasn't the "guardians/gods of the sky/forest/water" theme been used already? I don't really think that will be a critical plot point, it just gives you a hint on where the legendary lives. I still think that the legendaries will be artificial, created by the enemy teams from gen6, mostly based on their strange looks and that infamous rainbowy DNA helix in the Japanese box art.

Maybe you guys should consider that maybe the evil team had nothing to do with their creation. That being said, I'm going on the same idea of them being created by humans. Scientists could have created these creatures to establish some sort of balance within the ecosystem within the region. The evil team could just try to use them for their own benefit.

Your artificial Legendary idea is very nice.

Xerneas actually looks very natural to me. The only thing off about its design, are the rainbow crystals.

I think that they look unnatural. Xerneas seems like it could have once been a stag, but it's body definitely looks too altered for it to look completely natural. Even still, Xerneas' design reminds me of Dialga and he wasn't a creation; not by human hands anyways. Then again, it makes since for those Pokémon to have a metallic look since they represent space and time. Where as here we're talking about a forest and there is definitely something about DNA somewhere.

This is extremely Farfetch'd (haha, Pokémon puns), but, staying with the 'artificial' theme, what if Xerneas is an altered Sawsbuck? And Yveltal was an altered...well, we don't have a Pokémon very similar to Yveltal yet, so let's just say Yveltal is an altered 6th gen Pokémon? It's wild, but who knows?

I find Yveltal to appear very organic, contrary to what a lot of people are saying. Xerneas on the other hand seems very sleek and almost inorganic. Personally, if Xerneas isn't fairy-type, I think it would be part steel or electric. However, I don't really think either were man-made or altered. I'm just bringing more ideas to the table.

 

[Thief]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

Maybe you guys should consider that maybe the evil team had nothing to do with their creation. That being said, I'm going on the same idea of them being created by humans. Scientists could have created these creatures to establish some sort of balance within the ecosystem within the region. The evil team could just try to use them for their own benefit.



I think that they look unnatural. Xerneas seems like it could have once been a stag, but it's body definitely looks too altered for it to look completely natural. Even still, Xerneas' design reminds me of Dialga and he wasn't a creation; not by human hands anyways. Then again, it makes since for those Pokémon to have a metallic look since they represent space and time. Where as here we're talking about a forest and there is definitely something about DNA somewhere.

This is extremely Farfetch'd (haha, Pokémon puns), but, staying with the 'artificial' theme, what if Xerneas is an altered Sawsbuck? And Yveltal was an altered...well, we don't have a Pokémon very similar to Yveltal yet, so let's just say Yveltal is an altered 6th gen Pokémon? It's wild, but who knows?

I find Yveltal to appear very organic, contrary to what a lot of people are saying. Xerneas on the other hand seems very sleek and almost inorganic. Personally, if Xerneas isn't fairy-type, I think it would be part steel or electric. However, I don't really think either were man-made or altered. I'm just bringing more ideas to the table.

I'm with Team fairy, so I'm praying that it happens. However if Xerneas ends up steel, which doesn't seem impossible, I'll think it's a lot similar to Dialga. I mean seriously, they look so similar in general color and the way the metallic parts are designed.

Anyways, Yveltal does seem organic, but not born of natural means. His skin is almost translucent and THAT is what seems unnatural to me. One seems more organic while the other looks more modified.

 

[AdamLambert]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

This is extremely Farfetch'd (haha, Pokémon puns), but, staying with the 'artificial' theme, what if Xerneas is an altered Sawsbuck? And Yveltal was an altered...well, we don't have a Pokémon very similar to Yveltal yet, so let's just say Yveltal is an altered 6th gen Pokémon? It's wild, but who knows?

I find Yveltal to appear very organic, contrary to what a lot of people are saying. Xerneas on the other hand seems very sleek and almost inorganic. Personally, if Xerneas isn't fairy-type, I think it would be part steel or electric. However, I don't really think either were man-made or altered. I'm just bringing more ideas to the table.

I'm with Team fairy, so I'm praying that it happens. However if Xerneas ends up steel, which doesn't seem impossible, I'll think it's a lot similar to Dialga. I mean seriously, they look so similar in general color and the way the metallic parts are designed.

Anyways, Yveltal does seem organic, but not born of natural means. His skin is almost translucent and THAT is what seems unnatural to me. One seems more organic while the other looks more modified.

You know, I guess Yveltal isn't as organic as I first thought. The soulless eyes, the transparency. I admit defeat lol

 

[Mitja]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

They don't look metallic to me at all. Neither artificial. I don't see what the distinction for "artificial look" is, otherwise, couldn't you say that about 50% of pokemon?

 

[Their Goominess]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

They don't look metallic to me at all. Neither artificial. I don't see what the distinction for "artificial look" is, otherwise, couldn't you say that about 50% of pokemon?

Apparently they have a sci-fi thing, what with Xerneas' legs and antlers and Yveltal's translucent body with the vein-like markings on it.

I totally agree with you, I don't see them as artificial. I'm pretty sure that Xerneas' blade legs are just purely aesthetic, but glow sometimes (with it's antlers) during battle. I'm also sure that Yveltal's glowy body is gonna be the same, in that it's usually just a plain red and sometimes it glows in battle, making it look translucent.

Xerneas feels like a forest spirit/king/guardian to me more than anything else, what with it always being shown in a forest, and its majestic look.
Yveltal is a bit harder to decipher, but if my theory on Xern is correct (that it's a guardian/spirit/king), then the most logical thing would be to make it a sky guardian/king/whatever.
That would then make Zmon another guardian/king/whatever, I'm guessing it would reside in the sea.

This could make a 'King' trio, with them ruling over their respective elements. I can also kinda see them as life-givers; Xerneas makes all plants grow, Yveltal forms the clouds and provides the winds and Zmon would keep the tides moving.

 

[DrEspeon]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

The soulless eyes, the transparency. I admit defeat lol

A ghost would be organic (sort of) and fit these characteristics. Ghost/Flying.

 

[Thief]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

They don't look metallic to me at all. Neither artificial. I don't see what the distinction for "artificial look" is, otherwise, couldn't you say that about 50% of pokemon?

Apparently they have a sci-fi thing, what with Xerneas' legs and antlers and Yveltal's translucent body with the vein-like markings on it.

I totally agree with you, I don't see them as artificial. I'm pretty sure that Xerneas' blade legs are just purely aesthetic, but glow sometimes (with it's antlers) during battle. I'm also sure that Yveltal's glowy body is gonna be the same, in that it's usually just a plain red and sometimes it glows in battle, making it look translucent.

Xerneas feels like a forest spirit/king/guardian to me more than anything else, what with it always being shown in a forest, and its majestic look.
Yveltal is a bit harder to decipher, but if my theory on Xern is correct (that it's a guardian/spirit/king), then the most logical thing would be to make it a sky guardian/king/whatever.
That would then make Zmon another guardian/king/whatever, I'm guessing it would reside in the sea.

This could make a 'King' trio, with them ruling over their respective elements. I can also kinda see them as life-givers; Xerneas makes all plants grow, Yveltal forms the clouds and provides the winds and Zmon would keep the tides moving.

If there is a Zmon then I'm thinking it would be underworld rather than sea. The clouds on the Y box look heavenly; I just think that the scenery is much more vibrant and glowing than regular clouds. Anyways, it could represent Heaven (Y), mortal plane (X), and hell (Z). Similar to Giratina I suppose, but he rules over a whole other universe, more like a Valhalla (ghost world) than hell.

Correction: The clouds are heavenly because of the sun beams shining through and also because the colours are very light and vivid.

 

[AdamLambert]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

Apparently they have a sci-fi thing, what with Xerneas' legs and antlers and Yveltal's translucent body with the vein-like markings on it.

I totally agree with you, I don't see them as artificial. I'm pretty sure that Xerneas' blade legs are just purely aesthetic, but glow sometimes (with it's antlers) during battle. I'm also sure that Yveltal's glowy body is gonna be the same, in that it's usually just a plain red and sometimes it glows in battle, making it look translucent.

Xerneas feels like a forest spirit/king/guardian to me more than anything else, what with it always being shown in a forest, and its majestic look.
Yveltal is a bit harder to decipher, but if my theory on Xern is correct (that it's a guardian/spirit/king), then the most logical thing would be to make it a sky guardian/king/whatever.
That would then make Zmon another guardian/king/whatever, I'm guessing it would reside in the sea.

This could make a 'King' trio, with them ruling over their respective elements. I can also kinda see them as life-givers; Xerneas makes all plants grow, Yveltal forms the clouds and provides the winds and Zmon would keep the tides moving.

If there is a Zmon then I'm thinking it would be underworld rather than sea. The clouds on the Y box look heavenly; I just think that the scenery is much more vibrant and glowing than regular clouds. Anyways, it could represent Heaven (Y), mortal plane (X), and hell (Z). Similar to Giratina I suppose, but he rules over a whole other universe, more like a Valhalla (ghost world) than hell.

While that is an awesome idea, I don't know if GF would go with a heaven/earthly world/hell theme, simply because it would probably be very controversial. But who knows? I sure don't!

OMG! What if you're actually a GF employee!? Mind blown.

 

[Thief]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

If there is a Zmon then I'm thinking it would be underworld rather than sea. The clouds on the Y box look heavenly; I just think that the scenery is much more vibrant and glowing than regular clouds. Anyways, it could represent Heaven (Y), mortal plane (X), and hell (Z). Similar to Giratina I suppose, but he rules over a whole other universe, more like a Valhalla (ghost world) than hell.

While that is an awesome idea, I don't know if GF would go with a heaven/earthly world/hell theme, simply because it would probably be very controversial. But who knows? I sure don't!

OMG! What if you're actually a GF employee!? Mind blown.

Lol. It's tempting to say yes, but sadly no I'm not.

I just think it goes back to the Norse Mythology theory, but like I keep saying that I think a lot of ídeas overlap each other. The Life and Death theory, the dna theory, Norse; I think they could all very well exist together.

I don't think it would be controversial, because if you look at many children's shows, games, ect, you find that there are a lot of subliminal messages. Even blatant ones like when Looney Tunes went to hell, or Tom and Jerry. Even Giratina is theorised to have a relationship to Satan (which I feel is very likely); Having a basilisk like form and a design that adds up to 666. (tentacles, legs, and braces)

 

[professorlight]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

I didn't mean that speculation is wrong but if you use all your arguments come from a speculation with nothing at all from this Gen or previous Gens to back it up, you can't say that the typings must be even. I see the point for them to be even but I don't believe that they put "being even" over the Pokemon's design (of course it fits those types but there are types that can actually fit better). Xerneas could be better Steel, Ground, Psychic than Fairy or Grass but they aren't just going to through the typing just for them to be "even".

That is exactly what I meant. They don't need for them to be even in typing for it to be a "glorious" or "magnificent" or "pair" battle. They can make it a good battle ignoring type advantages (for the story-line/anime that is).

In pokemon, we have a lot of pairings; trios, even; magmar/electabuzz, all the starters, etc, and among the most notorious, the main legendaries; at first there were no legendaries, then in gen 2 we had lugia and ho-oh, if lugia was the diving pokemon, why is it psychic? (it lives undesea, learns rain dance and hydro pump, even) the answer is balance, that typing doesn't make sense unless you look at it from a type matchup standpoint.
In gen 3, GF dropped the ball... dropped the ball hard, not only one main legendary had advantage (and another had inmunity to that same one) but they even ignore that fact in the world's lore.
In 4, they got slightly better. dialga yes, dialga and palkia were uneven, (mainly because of dialga's steel type) but at least not as blatantly as the previous legendaries.
For gen 5, they got better, reshiram and zekrom were equals in concept and gameplay.
That's my evidence. To avoid the farfetched typing of lugia or the incongruity of kyogre/groudon's story, typing should (what they actually do ¿or did? is another matter entirely) be taken into consideration, because it affects the legend's mutual relation and their concept.
How can you say "Xerneas could be better Steel, Ground, Psychic than Fairy or Grass"? where's your evidence for this? you've got as much evidence for that statement as I do for saying it would be grass/fairy, unless you have an inner source or something, we both have the same data to go on, but different interpretations of it.

Again, gameplay and story segregation. GF dug their own hole with kyogre/groudon saying that they fought for years what, according to the rules of their own created universe, should have been a pretty straightforward battle. The fact that they are legendaries should not mean they are not subjected to the same rules as other pokemon, otherwise, kyogre's water moves should not make 2x damage to groudon in battle.

And the possible Z pokemon would not be water, I think, because both X and Z would cover land (from a person's perspective), while Y would cover both sky and water (positive and negative height) I think Z would be more like giratina was: some kind of dimensional being. Oh, this is my evidence:

sky

Y __Z
I _ / _____land
I/___ X

water

Of course, the direction of each axis could be different from where you are watching, maybe X and Y cover land and it's Z that goes up. Besides, with land/water/sky we are back into groudon/kyogre/rayquaza territory; maybe they just don't mean anything and are like reshiram/zekrom/kyurem, just very powerful pokemon.

 

[Mitja]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

I doubt "Z" would have anything to do with sea.

Underground? Now we're talking.

 

[Zygarde]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

...maybe they just don't mean anything and are like reshiram/zekrom/kyurem, just very powerful pokemon.

Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem represent Ying/Yang/Wuji.

 

[GoobieDoob]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

They could've added to the white a little bit on Xerneas's box art. In Yveltal's it has some dark clouds around the Y. Not just grey or black or purple. Maybe Xerneas' should have white clouds or pink ripples or something.

BTW, I really can't decide on who I love more. I hope we get the chance to get both of them in each game (like HGSS, sure you have to get it later, but still).

 

[Rusty Sticks]

RE: X/Y Box Art Subtly Reveals Legendaries Typing?

Just gonna leave this here...

EDIT: sonofa professorlight already said it >:[