5th Gen Competitive Movesets and Metagame

I really prefer Choice Scarf, Specs, or Life Orb on Palkia due to how Ubers is metagame wise. Bluffing could only work to a point because if the person knows their damage calcs, they could tell if it is Choiced or not. Being able to hit Lugia harder can make a difference on beating it. Not factoring in Stealth Rock, variations of Palkia without anything to boost Thunder's damage have a very low chance to 2HKO the standard wall Lugia set assuming Lugia doesn't Roost off the damage. By having Life Orb equiped it always will 2HKO wall Lugia if it doesn't Roost off the damage. Lugia is quite a tank to beat otherwise which is part of why I prefer a bit extra power on Palkia. The Choice Specs Palkia set actually has a fair chance to OHKO Wall Lugia after SR. The damage it can deal is 72.1% - 85.1%.

Choice Scarf is basically just a Revenge Killer set. It can come in handy at times, but it is able to get walled more easily.
 
What might be the ideal movesets for an Accelgor and Haxorus with no real strategy?

I guess that doesn't really help but an answer would be appreciated.
 
Would anyone be able to recommend a particular set for Watchog? I'm not really using it competitively (before anybody goes ballistic, haha :)), but I'm RNG'ing a Patrat in-game for keepsake, so I'd like to make it as competitively apt as possible if I were to train it in the future (or at least a nature/ability for the immediate future; I'm not really concerned about PO/Wi-Fi metagame differences either, though I doubt it has much of an effect on Watchog anyway). I was leaning towards perhaps a Baton Passer or some other set that makes use of Swords Dance through its moderate Attack stat, but naturally there's hardly any analyses for Watchog on the net, and even though its movepool is slightly versatile (at least for any workable roles), I'm not having any luck crafting anything myself that would work even remotely well against any old UU-esque opponent. Any advice would be very much appreciated, thanks!
 
Watchog is really pathetic, no offense, and I'd honestly recommend Smeargle, Mew, or Ninjask if you really want to pass stats, as all of them are generally better as baton passers. Although you said it's more for casual play, so there's nothing wrong with that, lol. Here's a set if you really want to use it:

Item: Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly or Timid, it doesn't matter
Substitute
Swords Dance
Hypnosis
Baton Pass

Yep, that's really all it can do.
 
Terrific, in fact that's the exact set I had in mind. I had thrown around using Return or some comparable physical/STAB move in tandem with Swords Dance as the only change, but I suppose if it doesn't get murdered by Taunt it'll get walled by something else… Whatever the case, I'll see what happens with practical experience eventually, if it proves to be any sort of a big deal at all. Thanks TDL!
 
I have a fairly useful liepard that I haven't seen on any other websites. Don't criticize the type coverage, it's the best it has. (unless you think it can sweep with rock smash ;) )
Liepard @ normal jem
252 attack, 252 speed
Adamant/jolly I would go with adamant, because of the ability.
Unburden
Hone claws
Fake out
Night slash
Shadow claw/rock smash
The strategy is simple. Fake out, activating the normal gem, and Unburden comes into play. Claw sharpen if you can, night slash is stab, and shadow claw is the next best move. Rock Smash is only viable when hitting steels and darks, which wall the all of it's other decent moves. It has greater power against dark and steel, but is otherwise useless unless you need a defense drop, which might not happen. Plus it's fun to see your opponents reaction when their Tyranitar get killed(?) by a move like that :D

Good news! +1 rock smash does 205-241 damage to 0 ev/neutral nature T-tar! If the Tyranitar doesn't KO it afterwards, it beats it.
 
patrick329 said:
I have a fairly useful liepard that I haven't seen on any other websites.
Click to expand...

Let's just stop right there and explain why you haven't seen it on other websites. It's a horrible Pokemon that serves zero real purpose and is outclassed by an other sweeper. As a Fake Out lead, it's outclassed by Mainshao and Aimbipom. As a boosting sweeper, there are so many more options it's not even funny.

patrick329 said:
Don't criticize the type coverage, it's the best it has. (unless you think it can sweep with rock smash ;) )
Click to expand...

Type coverage is one of the most important things when considering a sweeper. If it has a shallow movepool with very little moves or moves with low base power, it's honestly not that good.

patrick329 said:
Liepard @ normal jem
252 attack, 252 speed
Adamant/jolly I would go with adamant, because of the ability.
Unburden
Hone claws
Fake out
Night slash
Shadow claw/rock smash
The strategy is simple. Fake out, activating the normal gem, and Unburden comes into play. Claw sharpen if you can, night slash is stab, and shadow claw is the next best move. Rock Smash is only viable when hitting steels and darks, which wall the all of it's other decent moves. It has greater power against dark and steel, but is otherwise useless unless you need a defense drop, which might not happen.
Click to expand...

... First off, Normal Gem is a horrible item, along with all of the other gem items. Why, you might ask. Well, it only boosts one move type. Why would you want to boost only one move type by 50% when you could boost all move types by 30% with a Life Orb. The effect of a gem item is also lost on a switch, whereas Life Orb will always be active. On terms of the strategy of using Unburden + White Gem + Fake Out, it's not that great. Even after a speed boost, you still aren't hitting anything hard without a Claw Sharpen. That's two turns of setup, whereas a Pokemon like Excadrill can do that all in one turn with Swords Dance, while also having much, much, much, much, much more attack power and coverage.

Other than the fact of how easy this Pokemon is to wall, it's outclassed by every other boosting sweeper and has zero use in OU.

patrick329 said:
Plus it's fun to see your opponents reaction when their Tyranitar get killed(?) by a move like that :D

Good news! +1 rock smash does 205-241 damage to 0 ev/neutral nature T-tar! If the Tyranitar doesn't KO it afterwards, it beats it.
Click to expand...

You know what isn't fun? Getting swept.

Your calculations are implying that Tyranitar has no EVs invested in defenses. This is a not what you're supposed to do when doing damage calculations. Instead, take a Pokemon's most popular sets to base your calculations on. The current most popular Tyranitar is Mixed Tyranitar, which runs 252 EVs in HP. A +1 Rock Smash only will do 50.5% - 60.4%, which is a 2HKO. If Tyranitar switched in on that turn you boosted you attack, you're screwed. If Tyranitar switched in after a Pokemon fainted, you're screwed. Your only hope is to hit it on the switch. If not, have fun getting OHKO'd with those pathetic defenses. Speaking of Liepard's defenses, they're absolutely horrible. 64/50/50 gets wrecked by almost every move, even a not very effective move will still do a lot. Also, 88 Attack is below average. Even after a Claw Sharpen, you're still not going to be doing much damage.

In summary: This Pokemon shouldn't be considered in OU, UU, or even the newly created RU tier. It's outclassed heavily by a lot of Pokemon and there are just more better options. It's also a gimmick and a one trick pony, neither of which win games.

TL;DR version:

10dsdvb.jpg
 
I didn't actually think that I would have success with this set, especially given the Pokemon using it. But I'm surprised with how well it turned out.

Audino @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP, 124 Def, 132 SpD
Bold Nature
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Protect
-Encore/Thunder Wave/Toxic

I originally went for this set because Audino is one of a few Pokemon (Chimecho, Delcatty, Blissey, Clefable, and Smeargle) that can know both Aromatherapy/Heal Bell and Wish. However, only Audino, Delcatty, Smeargle and Chimecho are the only ones without legal issues knowing the moves, and Audino was the one that screamed "I suck" the least, so I went with it. It's attacking stats are awful, but thats why its there to support.

Wish and Heal Bell support the team, for obvious reasons. Protect is a scouting move, and is useful for Wishing for Audino. Encore is more support, though it is rather difficult to pull off, due to 50 base speed and no investment. Thunder Wave and Toxic are for more support, but because everyone and their mother likes switching Conkeldurr into Audino, its not that good of an idea to use them. My team also has lots of burns going around, so nether were especially useful. Regenerator is also insanely useful for Wishpassing as well.

You need to be careful how you use Audino. While it may not have Blissey's 700 HP, it can reach 400HP, and still have double Blissey's defense, and a respectable amount of special defense. It also has Regenerator, meaning that it restores 137HP every time it comes in. Its bulk is also comparable to Jellicent.
 
@ thedarklucario
Who said it was OU? If it survives to claw sharpen, it hits 453 attack. With stab, night slash has 105 power, which isn't bad at all. And the Tyranitar thing was a joke. I am aware that liepard has minimal chance of taking a t-tar hit. It is just a fairly okay RU to UU sweeper, and unless the opponent has steadfast or inner focus, it is only really like a one turn set up because the opponent doesn't attack. Excadrill is in another league, so don't compare it to the kitty.
 
patrick329 said:
@ thedarklucario
Who said it was OU? If it survives to claw sharpen, it hits 453 attack. With stab, night slash has 105 power, which isn't bad at all. And the Tyranitar thing was a joke. I am aware that liepard has minimal chance of taking a t-tar hit. It is just a fairly okay RU to UU sweeper, and unless the opponent has steadfast or inner focus, it is only really like a one turn set up because the opponent doesn't attack. Excadrill is in another league, so don't compare it to the kitty.
Click to expand...

Notable UU Pokemon that outclass Liepard as a sweeper:
Zoroark, Weavile, Scyther, Mamoswine, Medicham, Kingdra, Hitmontop, Heracross, Golurk, Flygon, Empoleon, Snorlax, Arcanine, Staraptor, Cobalion, and Altaria.

Notable RU Pokemon that outclass Liepard as a sweeper:
Sharpedo, Yanmega, Kabutops, Venomoth, Gallade, Alakazam, Rhydon/Rhyperior, Archeops, Entei, Typhlosion, Kangaskhan, Absol, Swellow, Primeape, and Aggron

Nope, not that viable in any of the current tiers. If you have to use a 40 BP move for coverage, you're honestly not going to be sweeping very effectively. Another thing, like I said before, this Pokemon requires two turns to setup. Some of the sweepers I listed above only need one (the others need a Choice item or Life Orb to sweep, or just have great attacking stats to begin with). Liepard is also extremely easy to wall and it doesn't dish out much, if any, damage.

I don't get the Tyranitar joke. Explain. :/

@Bippa201:

I've actually used Audino on my RU team. It's pretty underated in that tier, as it only takes 48% damage from Specs Yanmega, while Audino can stall it out. The only problem with it is that it's Taunt weak, and it can't really fight for itself outside of Toxic with those 60 base attacking stats. In higher tiers, Chansey and Blissey are better choices as Wish passers and walls. Audino might be able to take Physical hits better than Blissey (Chansey, however, can take physical hits better than both of them), but Blissey can give off a bigger Wish, which can fully heal everything that recieves iirc. Chansey and Blissey also have attacking options, so they're not entirely Taunt weak.
 
Jellicent@Leftovers/???
Nature:Modest
Characteristic:Something to do with SP.Atk or Def
EVs:252 SP.Atk,100 Speed,48 HP,50 Def.,52 SP.Def
Ability:Cursed Body
Moveset:
Recover/Subsitute
Water Spout
Hex/Shadow Ball
Ice Beam

Whimsicott@???
Nature:Calm
Characteristic:Something to do with Def. or SP.Def
EVs:252 Def.,128 SP.Def,84 HP,40 Speed
Ability:prankster
Moveset:
Helping Hand
Tailwind
Toxic
Leech Seed

The point of this is mainly for Jellicent,for it will be the sweeper,mainly using Water Spout.I'll start the battle off using Tailwind,meaning my sweeper will likley be the fastest thing on the field.(Besides Whimsicott.)Since Jellicent's SP.Atk isn't the highest in the world,Whimsicott will help in that with...what else?Helping Hand.Water Spout's Power will go from 180(180 because of STAB.)to 270,which is likley to wipe boath of the opponent's pokemon in one hit.The point of Toxic and Leech Seed is because in my first runthrough of Firered,I learned that teaching my Venasaur those two moves is good for those irritating tanks that refuse to die.Sure,Jellicent can hit with a move with the power of 270,but dang,those shuckles...(Does anyone have any ideas on what to give to my Whimsicott?)

Now more about Jellicent's MS.I can't dicide between Recover and Subsitute.If it learns Subsitute,I'll give it the Leftovers,but if I teach it Recover,I don't know what to give it.I thought about giving it Hex,since Whimsicott will(probably)be dishing out status conditions,but then I thought:what if the pokemon was just sent out and doesn't have any.That's where Shadow Ball comes in.(Assuming I've somehow run out of power points on Water Spout,since I plan on maximizing it's power points.)I don't really have a reason why Ice Beam is there.
 
@ thedarklucario
As one final thing, it is just another set to use. The joke is that Liepard would be matched up against t-tar, let alone have a chance at beating it.

I have thought of something that might just be awesome. I was reading bulbapedia about Gallade, when I noticed a Trivia fact that it shares special defense with Scrafty.
Gallade@ life orb
252 attk, 252 spD, impish
Night slash
Drain punch
Bulk up
Close combat/psycho cut/filler
Pros and cons vs. Scrafty bulk up:
Pros: far greater attack
Better speed
Resists fighting
Cons: not stab night slash
Lower defense
Worse ability
Lacks rest or dragon tail
 
@TDL Good to see another RU player. I personally, though, always found that Munchlax outclassed Audino as a Special Sweeper, although Audino does carry Wish and Heal Bell. They do play seperate roles though, as Munchlax can actually take some things down with a Curse set.
 
So, I was analyzing Klinklang on the web, and got this idea. It seems somewhat like a Terrakion+Whimsicott combo, but both Pokemon actually attack.

Haxorus @ Choice Scarf
Jolly
EVs-4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Mold Breaker
Earthquake
X-Scissor
Dual Chop
Dragon Claw/Outrage

The Jolly and C-Scarf variant works best for this job, as it can outspeed Klinklang's nemesis, Chandelure, and Earthquake it. X-Scissor is for the Reuniclus KOs, Dual Chop for breaking Subs, and I'm deciding whether to have Dragon Claw or Outrage. With D-Claw, I can choose who I hit, and it's a roulette wheel for the other.

Klinklang @ Air Balloon
Adamant
EVs-132 HP/252 Atk/124 Spe
Minus
Shift Gear
Gear Grind
Facade
Volt Switch

This is the reason I made the combo. Haxorus's EQ is annulled due to the Air Balloon, as well as making opposing Ground moves, including Choice-locked EQs, and Mienshao's Jump Kicks always miss, so I take care of all but its Fire and Conkeldurr weaknesses. Shift Gear is its DD setup, and Gear Grind is a sub-breaker version of Meteor Mash and its STAB move. Facade is for the surprise to any Thundurus who try to Thunder Wave it, as well as any Whimsicott going for a random Stun Spore. (I don't know who would...) Plus Flinging or Tricking Flame Orbs backfires, as well as Jellicent's switching out after a WoW or when attacking its partner. Volt Switch is my retreat move in case I need Klinklang to switch for a type disadvantage.

The combo goes as follows:

Haxorus goes 1st, using EQ to at least KO the Klinklang threats. Since Klinklang is unaffected thanks to the Balloon, it buys a free turn to use Shift Gear and outspeed everything but Haxorus. Then I can Gear Grind/EQ to my heart's content, and I think it has universal coverage.

Now I need the rest of the team to help set-up this sweep-a-thon. Any suggestions on what the other 4 members could be? And any fixes to the Haxorus/Klinklang combo.

~AoH
 
Arceus Of Heaven said:
Klinklang @ Air Balloon
Adamant
EVs-132 HP/252 Atk/124 Spe
Minus
Shift Gear
Gear Grind
Facade
Volt Switch


~AoH
Click to expand...

Klinklang should have Clear Body, not Minus and what is the point of the set? Is it a mixed attacker, sweeper, or scouter? Because scouters don't really set up anything other then Taunt (Thundurus, etc.)
 
It's a set-up physical sweeper. Plus, I'm not playing Dream World. This is a VGC Klinklang I'm combining with Haxorus and I'm needing help for the rest of the team.

Would Tornadus w/ Tailwind leading be a smart idea for Klinklang's sweep?

~AoH
 
I don't play VGC sorry, and if it's a sweeper, you shouldn't give it a scouter's move (Volt Switch)
 
This is for RU... and I'm not really sure how many people play it... but oh wellz.

Lunah (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Ice Beam
- Sleep Talk

Cresselia is very hard to take down. That's why a Restalk set is ideal to maximize her bulkiness. Ice Beam isn't absorbed by anyone, and CM is for boosting against resistors. Of course, it is a bug ridden metagame, so a teammate like Scarflosion will be needed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top