Cardfight!! Vaguard Group Discussion

Well, I would if I was in the US, but I'll just have to make do with the qualifiers in april for the UK.
Is anyone going to the Comic Style Sneak? That Perfect Raizer mat's too good to resist.
 
Nothing really interests me in the Comic Style Vol. 1 expansion, I'm just waiting for BT09 and BT10 to be released in English so I can finally pimp out my Gold Paladin deck with Solitary Liberator, Gancelot unless he gets restricted to 2 per deck which seems very likely as well as the new Trigger lineup for Gold Paladin including the new Blaster Blade for Gold Paladin which I find somewhat situational and should've had the exact same abilities as it's Royal Paladin counterpart.
 
I don't care how op GP gets as long as my deck will get strong enough to beat Spectral Duke and other decks being played at my locals. I already spent close to $200+ on my Garmore/Ezel deck, so why should I even consider switching to a new Clan or building multiple decks? I've got enough decks for just about every TCG out there except Yu-Gi-Oh! which I got out of back in 2004.
 
So CSJ, what about those "Break Rides are broken" rants? Recent results show that the only break ride that has actually won anything was Bad-End. THe Narukami decks don'tn even bother running Vowing Sword and just proceed to use Descendant and Gauntlet Buster in the deck. I told you guys that Break Rides are not as broken as people would say they are.

Heck, during an all-out tournament in Japan (no banlist, breakrides included), three out oft he four winners so far were ORACLE THINK TANK decks. Those Break Rides and stuff were all beaten by Tsuk/CoCo

Right now, I'm playing around with Angel Feather and it's actually good.
 
Riskbreakers said:
So CSJ, what about those "Break Rides are broken" rants? Recent results show that the only break ride that has actually won anything was Bad-End. THe Narukami decks don'tn even bother running Vowing Sword and just proceed to use Descendant and Gauntlet Buster in the deck. I told you guys that Break Rides are not as broken as people would say they are.

Heck, during an all-out tournament in Japan (no banlist, breakrides included), three out oft he four winners so far were ORACLE THINK TANK decks. Those Break Rides and stuff were all beaten by Tsuk/CoCo

Right now, I'm playing around with Angel Feather and it's actually good.
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I take it Solitary Liberator, Gancelot and Platina Ezel weren't that bad? Alot of players have been hyping those cards up like mad in GP. It's like everytime I go on Pojo and read what people say about Vanguard they complain about the power creep the game has on Crossrides and Break Rides to where 30k+ units are bad. It seems to me as though Bushiroad knows what they're doing and so far it's way better than what Konami has done lately with Yu-Gi-Oh! and the recent Banned Lists which they use to "rotate" the Advanced Format in that TCG. It seems like Yu-Gi-Oh! players only play other TCG's If the Banned List in the Advanced Format is terrible every now and then. But I haven't kept up with Yu-Gi-Oh! as much as I have back in the early to mid 2000's.

Yu-Gi-Oh! nowadays is actually alot better to play Casually than Competitively because you don't need to spend as much as you would in Advanced Format. I kind of thought about building a Traditional Format deck to play Yu-Gi-Oh! for fun and rebuild that Jinzo/Limiter Removal deck I used to run 9 years ago but I was like nah I'm good. Although after getting back from Kansas States in Pokemon TCG I'm really considering about taking a break from Pokemon. RayEels is Tier 2 but even still I kept losing against Blastoise/Keldeo and got caught off guard playing against Lugia EX because I thought I'd be playing against Steel decks when I should've ran a regular Zekrom or Raikou EX over V-Create Victini. I knew Darkrai/Hydreigon didn't see enough play at States because of Ghetsis being released next set to screw over Max Potion shenanigans.
 
Break RIdes take their penalty in the form of deck space and speed. Narukami players abandoned their break ride because it was against the clan's rush nature. From what I remember, only BadEnd was the very good break ride and Plat Ezel sometimes didn't even have the Ezel.

Bushiroad > Konami

Bushiroad can at least power creep while making the game still playable.
 
Bushiroad > Konami?

How does that explain most people who play Vanguard only play it to get away from a terrible Forbidden/Limited List in Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Advanced Format only to jump back into Yu-Gi-Oh! when the List gets better and doesn't stagnate the metagame and proceeds to quit Vanguard only to repeat this process when the Forbidden/Limited List gets terrible again? I don't know about you but around where I live Kaijudo really seems to be getting a bigger playerbase than Cardfight!! Vanguard is mostly because of how it's basically Duel Masters 2.0 among other things which would be difficult for me to explain.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Bushiroad > Konami?

How does that explain most people who play Vanguard only play it to get away from a terrible Forbidden/Limited List in Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Advanced Format only to jump back into Yu-Gi-Oh! when the List gets better and doesn't stagnate the metagame and proceeds to quit Vanguard only to repeat this process when the Forbidden/Limited List gets terrible again? I don't know about you but around where I live Kaijudo really seems to be getting a bigger playerbase than Cardfight!! Vanguard is mostly because of how it's basically Duel Masters 2.0 among other things which would be difficult for me to explain.
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Because most Westerners suck at TCGs. They play YGO because they can get an auto-pilot expensive deck, claim that it is skillful and win. They don't want to leave that simplistic ape-like environment. I would even say that Pokemon takes more skill than YGO and considering the Pokemon format right now, that pretty much takes a lot of hurt for me to say. Vanguard takes more skill just because a simple guard error would make you die fast. Triggers are said to be pure luck based. No, Triggers are present to punish people who don't count cards and just rely on their broken-ass combos that are very "skillful". I don't know about you guys but when I see that my opponent's 12 crit deck has only checked two criticals the entire game, I would be pretty smart to no guard at four. I would be even smarter to say "A Critical sacked me" where the real fact is that was just a dumb misplay rather than sack.

As a guy in Pojo said:

"If you claim that you lost by luck in Yu-Gi-Oh!, I would believe you. If you claim that you lost by luck in Vanguard, I would be inclined to believe that you did something wrong along the way"



Also, Kaiju-what? Kaiju-who? Are those edible?
 
But not all Westerners suck at TCG's and Magic: The Gathering is a great example of that as well as many other skill based TCG's in circulation such as World of Warcraft TCG while some of those TCG's are now discontinued such as Marvel/DC Vs. System and Dragonball Z/GT by Score Entertainment which were some of the best card games I've played in my 10+ year hobby of TCG/CCG's. Sure there were some TCG's that have flopped but that was mainly due to poor management and advertising by the companies themselves like for example Battle Spirits by Bandai which had an Anime Adaptation in Japan which wasn't perceived that well with critics in the U.S. I'm afraid, I managed to get a couple of games in of it before the TCG died out in the U.S. though.

As for Kaijudo, you don't need to bash it unless If you've played Duel Masters before. Have you? They are basically the same TCG except the original version of the card game being Duel Masters got discontinued in the U.S. due to Yu-Gi-Oh!'s popularity at the time including poor marketing and advertising which was mostly to blame for it. There was also an Anime and Manga adaptation for Duel Masters as well but it flopped in the U.S. and there was at least 2 video games released for the franchise on the Gameboy Advance and the PS2 which didn't do all that well due to Yu-Gi-Oh!'s popularity, that and Atari also owned rights to some of the games for Duel Masters at the time before they went bankrupt, they also released Promo cards for the actual TCG as well such as Brain Serum.

Right now Duel Masters is one of the top ranking TCG/OCG's in Japan with nearly 50 expansions while the U.S. is stuck with a reboot of the same TCG with only 3 expansions in Kaijudo with Dragonstrike Infernus being the latest expansion in the game with it's first Pre-Release having huge turnouts from what I've read online. Throughout all those years that Duel Masters kept getting more popular than Yu-Gi-Oh! in Japan, Yu-Gi-Oh! was still pretty dominant in the U.S. at the time but it was and still currently going toe to toe in the U.S. Secondary Market with Magic: The Gathering and Pokemon. Whether or not Cardfight!! Vanguard or Kaijudo/Duel Masters will make it up there is anyone's guess.

I think the real problem boils down to demographics in Eastern and Western Cultures of the Gaming Community especially in the field of TCG's as well. What's popular in Japan may not be what's popular in the U.S. and vice-versa, Vanguard tends to be a franchise that appeals to Eastern demographics that doesn't transition itself all that well to Western demographics when it seems like the only thing that it has going for it anime-wise and source material-wise is that it's a Yu-Gi-Oh! clone when Kaijudo/Duel Masters is a clone of Magic: The Gathering that's hugely successful in Japan which doesn't need to rely on source material to be successful and can transition itself well between both cultures when it has card illustrations that appeals to a TCG player that doesn't need to be an otaku to enjoy the source material of the TCG itself but game mechanics usually make what TCG's are however source material does have an impact on it in some ways.

The big reason why Yu-Gi-Oh! 10 years ago was able to transition itself from Eastern to Western was due to really good marketing and advertising at the time, same with Pokemon but for different reasons. Nowadays because of the Internet and a terrible global economy it's hard to make that transition for a franchise like Cardfight!! Vanguard to stay afloat while it hasn't made the same kind of strides as Yu-Gi-Oh! did in the U.S. to be viewed on Cable Television and Bushiroad USA has no desire to air the English Dub for Vanguard on Cable Television when they think they can exclusively get the same kind of productivity going through YouTube episodes of the Dub instead of taking advantage of both Television and the Internet to advertise and market Cardfight!! Vanguard here in the U.S., it's a shame but yeah.
 
Kaijudo will only thrive in America because the art looks too cartoony, especially the animation. MTG is probably the only TCG strong enough to live without a nice Japanese animation. YGO is slowly downhill because of their stupid power creep and ban cycle.

You should also check Pojo, CFV is getting more and more active. Especially for a card game that is barely one year old, it's already the 4th most posted there. Also, Battle Spirits and CFV are the ones vying for top dog in Japan.
 
CFV is getting more active on Pojo, I've been browsing their forums every now and then however most of the stuff I hear about it revolve around people complaining about how bad the Anime series is and the power creep of the TCG in general. Aside from that there are some positive threads on there regarding CFV with alot of discussion on specific decks and other card strategies.

MTG never really needed source material to thrive which is what's unique about it, instead it's source material revolves around the story behind the "planes" of each block in the TCG. There's so many formats to play the TCG with and so much to do, the options you have are almost limitless and it paves the way for a great experience. Kaijudo is sort of helping the younger demographic get into the mindset of MTG in a sense at least.

Battle Spirits and CFV are more popular than Pokemon OCG in Japan?
 
I managed to translate it, here's what it said:

12/14/2012

Dear,

トレーディングカードゲームア Awards 2012 results announcement
Trading card game-market expansion, the monthly average 5387 Yen amount is-

IID, Inc.

IID, Inc. （ headquartered in Chuo, Tokyo, President: Miyagawa Hiroshi, following the Eid ）, トレーディングカードゲームア Awards 2012 select trading card game most satisfaction questionnaire survey targeted at general consumers by results to announce.

According to media create Research Institute fiscal year 2011 trading card game sales amount 100613000000 yen, topped 100 billion yen mark for the first time. By 19.7% and expansion of the market has been compared to the previous year. Also from earlier this year several new trading card game will be available, such as alternative spreads. Is an award supported users most currently in the trading card game, clarify the needs of the user で する 表彰 トレーディング カード ゲーム いる されて 支持 ユーザー に 最も 現在 その 中 で 、 を こと 、 明確 し 化 ニーズ ユーザー の を 促す より 健全 な 市場 成長 を, and encourage sound market growth.

* Media create Research Institute http://www.value-press.com/pressrelease/95148

Main findings were as follows.

■ Department of elementary school

Top prize Fight card! Vanguard (bushiroad Inc.)
Excellence Award GI-(Konami Digital Entertainment Co., Ltd.)
Excellence Award Duel Masters (Bandai)

■ Department of junior high school students

Top prize Battle spirits (Namco Bandai Holdings Inc.)
Excellence Award Pokémon trading card game (the Pokémon company)
Excellence Award Fight card! Vanguard (bushiroad Inc.)

■ high school category

Top prize Battle spirits (Namco Bandai Holdings Inc.)
Excellence Award Fight card! Vanguard (bushiroad Inc.)
Excellence Award GI-(Konami Digital Entertainment Co., Ltd.)

■ Department of University students

Top prize ZX ZX (broccoli, Inc.)
Excellence Award Magic the gathering (Tomy company, Ltd.)
Excellence Award Battle spirits (Namco Bandai Holdings Inc.)

■ Department of adult

Top prize Battle spirits (Namco Bandai Holdings Inc.)
Excellence Award Fight card! Vanguard (bushiroad Inc.)
Excellence Award Final Fantasy TCG (hobby Japan co., Ltd.)

■ Department of General

Top prize Fight card! Vanguard (bushiroad Inc.)
Excellence Award Battle spirits (Namco Bandai Holdings Inc.)
Excellence Award Final Fantasy TCG (hobby Japan co., Ltd.)

About-voting

Total votes : 2933 views
Duration : 10/2012
Subject : Internet survey (survey sites operated by Eid "Awww snap et" and announced at the "search inside")

Users actually play trading card game for "evaluation of card" "evaluation of the rule" "evaluation of operations" "evaluation of the environment", brand image and overall satisfaction score axis's all 22 items 1 (very bad) to 5 based out of (very good). Out of 100 in terms of the aggregate.

Elected to the Institute, national award for best "fight card! Vanguard "(bushiroad Inc.), received acclaim in such ease of access to information such as adequacy of competitions and other events, website and magazine. It was a positive sheath of the media mix, such as animated television, sills starting game novice, publicity height but it says, also are out.

Spirits (Namco Bandai Holdings Inc.) won top prize in junior high school, high school, adult Department. General category "fight card! Vanguard "with differential was less than 0.55 points. Especially cards such as the height of strategic nature and breadth of the deck building and design rules was appreciated.

ZX ZX released in 2012 (broccoli, Inc.) collects evaluation in higher age groups, and was named the best College Division. Is drew the attention that started in the basic free business model works, so put it first got off a good start. Drew and ease of participation in the game is in and specifically found that ease of rules or basic free it evaluation.

[Am]

1. Respondents ' attributes


2. Investment amount monthly to the trading card game


Eid ahead, and/or Eid related media information media users "Awww snap from France" and conducted customer satisfaction survey members, we will successively announced as Eid awards.

■ inquiries about this press release
IID, Inc.
Attn: tsuchimoto contact information is here.
PR by Fujiwara E-mail:
1-38-1 Chuo, Nakano-Ku, Tokyo 164-0011 Bldg. 16F Sumitomo Nakano Sakaue
URL：http://www.IID.co.jp/
Tel：03-6304-0091/fax: 03 - 5332 - 5760
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That's in next set Fraxureking, although I am looking forward to playing against an Aqua Force deck If one of my friends decides to build the deck themselves.
 
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