Durant makes me want to quit TCG

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Okay, if you really think that Durant takes skill to play:

The Durant mirror comes down to 3 things:
The opening Flip
Crushing Hammer Flips
What you mill

I guess maybe T1 4 Durants could count, but that happens most of the time anyway. All of those things are luck-based. I'll admit it takes slightly more than a chimpanzee to know when to Catcher/Lost Remover/Crushing Hammer.

However, that doesn't mean that I agree that TPCI should print Heatmor. It's ridiculous. While not fun to play against, Durant adds another level to the game in which you have to think differently than you would normally. Like others have said on this thread, there is always something to complain about in every format.
 
However, that doesn't mean that I agree that TPCI should print Heatmor. It's ridiculous.
Like others have said on this thread, there is always something to complain about in every format.
I don't think you have read the Pokedex lately.
 
^Regardless of its Pokedex, there are other things they could do with it. Having one card to blatantly counter a deck isn't the way to go.
 
Actually I did read the Pokedex entry on Heatmor (lol). Something about a hot, fiery tongue going into Durant and eating the insides haha. But there's still no excuse for purposely ruining a popular deck.
 
minimidget94 said:
Actually I did read the Pokedex entry on Heatmor (lol). Something about a hot, fiery tongue going into Durant and eating the insides haha. But there's still no excuse for purposely ruining a popular deck.
It was going to happen eventually, and the success of the Durant deck doesn't make a scrap of difference about it. Zangoose and Seviper had an even rivalry in the past with TCG. In the same token, Heatmor and Durant have one as well, but this one is heavily weighted in the anteater's favor (for obvious reasons), hence why it will do 10 plus 50 (times 2) when attacking an ant.
 
@27th: Kyurem won't do much if anything against Heatmor. When it comes out Durant will die.

@DNA: We understand why Heatmore should beat Durant and Seviper vs Zangoose is another example of this concept being implemented in the TCG, but Durant is actually a successful deck. T2, at least, if not T1 in some metas. This isn't just a clever thing pokemon is doing, it's a HUGE change to the meta and it shouldn't happen, not this drastically at least.
 
Or maybe-perish the thought-Pokemon actually decided they didn't like Durant, and wanted to change it because they felt Durant was a bad deck? I mean, its not like anyone else disliked Durant or gave any reason for this to happen, but...

Also, the fact that Durant is cheap yet viable is probably not making Pokemon as much money as they would if Durant wasn't so viable.
 
This isn't just a clever thing pokemon is doing, it's a HUGE change to the meta and it shouldn't happen, not this drastically at least.
I have a feeling this is based on the assumption that this Heatmor card was created AFTER Durant became a good deck.

Although I've no definite proof for this (since R&D likes to be kept behind closed doors), I'm fairly positive that PCL works on their sets well in advance of their release dates. I think what happened is that they made an initial Heatmor (i.e. in Red Collection) that was rather simplistic design-wise, but with a nice quirk (Incinerate). Then, they made another one later that more accurately showed its dominance as predator over prey. It wasn't until after they made (note I said MADE, not REVEALED) that Heatmor card that Durant became successful.

Of course this is all speculation, but based on what I have heard and seen, it is a very likely theory. Plus, all this complaining about this new Heatmor isn't going to affect its release. What, you think that they'll just withhold a single card from a set because the fans start QQing about it? If you don't like it, don't play - they have other fans who will like sticking around.
 
DNA said:
It was going to happen eventually, and the success of the Durant deck doesn't make a scrap of difference about it. Zangoose and Seviper had an even rivalry in the past with TCG. In the same token, Heatmor and Durant have one as well, but this one is heavily weighted in the anteater's favor (for obvious reasons), hence why it will do 10 plus 50 (times 2) when attacking an ant.

There was also Darkrai that did 100 damage if the opponent was Cresselia.
 
@Dark Void: Actually I don't see how Durant being a cheap deck would mean Pokemon makes less money. If anything it's actually enticing people to buy the theme decks for the 3x Durant and maybe a few packs. Singles are mostly bought online or people would just buy a box and hope for a decent prime/FA/etc they can trade for what they want. Durant being an uncommon means they are plentiful, too, so people don't have to trade for them, they can just buy packs, tins, etc and have a good chance of getting it, unlike, say yanmega prime before the box. Plus, despite it's popularity, it isn't BDIF so people are still trying to get the big money primes/FAs for their decks.

@DNA: First of all, awesome sig. Not a huge fan of the cape and I can't tell what piece the shoulder is (since it's so big), but it's obviously a custom version with the shoe on its chest and all. Secondly that's something I hadn't thought of. It makes sense to continuously work on sets in advance, but that doesn't mean they can't change them, or at least one card, before they come out. Not saying this as a QQ, but I'm sure they can see that it is (or was) a prevailing force in the meta so they could have altered the text a little bit before revealing it. I understand the concept and the why, but it just seems silly to eliminate a deck that so many people love, especially considering this will make Durant a useless card to players unless they are collectors, too. It just seems too drastic a change, even if it isn't in response to the popularity of Durant.

AmishEskimoNinja said:
There was also Darkrai that did 100 damage if the opponent was Cresselia.

Quoting from another the heatmor thread:
iisnumber12 said:
But, your two examples were {C}{C}{C} for 90 against an unplayable card, and {D}{D}{D} for 100 against an okay card. Nothing copared to {C} for 60 against aa very playable card.

The rivalry cards in the past weren't very good or even playable for the most part, unless they were playing each other.
 
oh yeah I forgot about Badrai from Secret Wonders
~~~

@Captain Oats: Here's the original picture; I gave due credit in my bio, since it is a custom version. Moving on;

It is possible that they could have foreseen Durant being a powerful force; I definitely don't doubt it. Whether or not that would have stopped them from watering down the new Heatmor's attack, I cannot say. But to be perfectly honest, I do not believe that Heatmor will be the downfall of Durant.

Why? Right now, Durant still has to deal with things that can OHKO it every turn - Terrakion is an example of one thing, and the Tao Dragons are also formidable threats, but as with everything, there are ways to play around it. You have to play very wisely, but you can still play around it. It basically involves being judicial with Revives and Catchers (oh, and Junk Arm), plus a little luck on Crushing Hammer...basically, it's difficult, but not impossible. I don't know if this will see a downfall in Durant's play (to be honest, I think it will, but not by a large margin), but in any case, we need to brace for the inevitable future. That's what EVERYONE did with Catcher. (I really hate Pokemon Catcher, but I am not going to quit the game over it.)

I guess it's just one of those things we'll just have to live with. We have had many moments like this before - what's another one to us?
 
okay you're playing a machamp deck and are having issues against durant? there are several good techs for durant that can be easily put into your build-
1). Just getting a machamp charged up does the trick most of the time
2). Landorus works great as does terrakoin
I don't see the problem here. anyhow durant is a real deck and just because it's not fun to play against doesn't mean you should quit, i mean come on almost every match last year was luxchomp v. luxchomp, i'm sure that wasn't fun for some people...
 
DNA said:
oh yeah I forgot about Badrai from Secret Wonders
~~~

@Captain Oats: Here's the original picture; I gave due credit in my bio, since it is a custom version. Moving on;

It is possible that they could have foreseen Durant being a powerful force; I definitely don't doubt it. Whether or not that would have stopped them from watering down the new Heatmor's attack, I cannot say. But to be perfectly honest, I do not believe that Heatmor will be the downfall of Durant.

Why? Right now, Durant still has to deal with things that can OHKO it every turn - Terrakion is an example of one thing, and the Tao Dragons are also formidable threats, but as with everything, there are ways to play around it. You have to play very wisely, but you can still play around it. It basically involves being judicial with Revives and Catchers (oh, and Junk Arm), plus a little luck on Crushing Hammer...basically, it's difficult, but not impossible. I don't know if this will see a downfall in Durant's play (to be honest, I think it will, but not by a large margin), but in any case, we need to brace for the inevitable future. That's what EVERYONE did with Catcher. (I really hate Pokemon Catcher, but I am not going to quit the game over it.)

I guess it's just one of those things we'll just have to live with. We have had many moments like this before - what's another one to us?

Thanks for the original, I now know exactly how to build it :D I'll have to go back to parents house sometime and get out all my old Bionicle pieces now...

There are cards that can beat Durant right now, yes, but none of them do so with as much ease as Heatmor. {C} for an OHKO vs. the type-type-{C} cost of all the other popular, normal attackers (Genies, Cobalion, Terrakion, Dragons, etc) that serve as your Durant counter. Heatmor can get out and powered T1 an there is nothing Durant can really do against them except Crushing Hammer, Judge/N and hope they don't draw an energy or Weavile drop, etc. But even then there's nothing impossibly hard about getting 1 single energy out of your discard (FSL, Super Rod, Fisherman come to mind), and since you are KOing so easily you shouldn't feel the need to be conservative with draw power/PONTs/etc.

Starting with T1 4 Durant Devour, they get 24 cards discarded from the 47 you start with if you manage to get out Heatmor T1, plus 6 for drawing each turn so that's 17 cards to blow through in 6 turns. That's not including the times that Durant occasionally squeak out a clutch revive/JA etc or the times they have no energy/twins, so that could add anywhere from 2-6 cards a game, on average, in your deck, since tbh, Durant does have some stability issues once its opponent starts OHKOing every turn. Durant can also play catcher, hammer and so on to stall, but people run switch/JA and enough energy to not really have to worry about this.

So really, yes, you can still lose to Durant even if you are running Heatmor and you aren't careful or you are really, REALLY unlucky, but you can also run through the entire deck with just 2 cards (Heatmor, energy). It will definitely crush Durant out of the meta and make it a scarce rogue, if anything, imo at least. I can't see how else it would happen.

Catcher was a much larger change to the format, since it affected every deck and not just countering 1 single deck, but I know what you meant.

Durant won't fall off completely, but it will take a huge loss. I can't see how Durant can have an honest, fighting chance against a good player teching in Heatmor.

tl,dr; Heatmor is going to be the realistic end of Durant.
 
CFOURCOLTSFAN said:
okay you're playing a machamp deck and are having issues against durant? there are several good techs for durant that can be easily put into your build-
1). Just getting a machamp charged up does the trick most of the time
2). Landorus works great as does terrakoin
I don't see the problem here. anyhow durant is a real deck and just because it's not fun to play against doesn't mean you should quit, i mean come on almost every match last year was luxchomp v. luxchomp, i'm sure that wasn't fun for some people...

In my game that I think you're referring to:
1) Every single turn he discarded an energy. I had a maximum of one energy all game. So no damage of any kind occurred.
2) The game I played, I started machop, so Landorus or terrakion would not have helped me, because he would have just kept catchering the machop.
 
You scoop, of course.
Psycho Drive every turn + Energy Retrieval/Fisherman. With resistance, Eviolite, and s Special Metal, Psycho Drive does exactly 70 damage. It would need to drop Defenders or something to stall out.
 
DNA said:
You scoop, of course.
Psycho Drive every turn + Energy Retrieval/Fisherman. With resistance, Eviolite, and s Special Metal, Psycho Drive does exactly 70 damage. It would need to drop Defenders or something to stall out.
You don't run Psychic in that.

You should just use Tornadus until a Mewtwo has enough energy. It should be a super easy matchup as you will be attacking from turn 1, and there is a huge probability for donking.
 
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