Future Metagame Speculation Thread

RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

pokemonjoe said:
If it's so great, why isn't it getting played?
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Wouldn't it be possible because of it's lack of appeal? Most people use eels or gartaria variants not just because of it having good combos, most of them just get carried on by the hype. And if you just base it on its popularity, that doesn't really prove anything. just saying. and yeah, I also got a LOL on that Golurk thing XD
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

r0naLd222 said:
Wouldn't it be possible because of it's lack of appeal? And if you just base it on its popularity, that doesn't really prove anything. just saying.
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No, actually it does prove a lot. The reason the popular decks are popular is because they are good. I actually LOL'd at that statement because it is the complete opposite of how the internet and pokemon work. A deck does gets popular, people play it, people perfect it, it does well. Let's look at the battle road results. Oh look, Darkrai/Hydreigon has the most wins. It just so happens that it is quite possibly the BDIF. Believe me, if Archeops was as good as you say it is, it would at least have a top 4. just saying.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

pokemonjoe said:
No, actually it does prove a lot. The reason the popular decks are popular is because they are good. I actually LOL'd at that statement because it is the complete opposite of how the internet and pokemon work. A deck does gets popular, people play it, people perfect it, it does well. Let's look at the battle road results. Oh look, Darkrai/Hydreigon has the most wins. It just so happens that it is quite possibly the BDIF. Believe me, if Archeops was as good as you say it is, it would at least have a top 4. just saying.
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I think not all are like that. Like Gartaria, when scans of DREX were leaked, everyone (well not everyone, but a lot) was like "Oh a cool garchomp. This is sooo gonna be BDIF" completely forgetting about the Darkrai/Hydreigon pairing. Then when BR's came it was suddenly DarkHydreigon winning everywhere. Just wanted to point out that not all cards/combinations that are all hyped up at first get to be "alive" in the card format. Well, it is just my opinion though.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

r0naLd222 said:
I think not all are like that. Like Gartaria, when scans of DREX were leaked, everyone (well not everyone, but a lot) was like "Oh a cool garchomp. This is sooo gonna be BDIF" completely forgetting about the Darkrai/Hydreigon pairing. Then when BR's came it was suddenly DarkHydreigon winning everywhere. Just wanted to point out that not all cards/combinations that are all hyped up at first get to be "alive" in the card format. Well, it is just my opinion though.
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lol, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying popularity in tournaments plays a huge factor in what's successful and what's not. Hence why Archeops is dead. It is bad matchups against the popular decks, so no one wanting to win will play it, so it is dead.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

pokemonjoe said:
lol, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying popularity in tournaments plays a huge factor in what's successful and what's not. Hence why Archeops is dead. It is bad matchups against the popular decks, so no one wanting to win will play it, so it is dead.
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Considering it went 3-0 against Hydregion/Darkrai, I think it can hold it's own. The one person that played it at my BR went 3-3 and that's going against thre Dark-Region. The only decks it had problems with were Darkrai/Tornadus and Darkrai/Terrakion and even then she barely lost. Her list isn't perfect, it's missing some serious staples and it's wide spread, but that just proves that even in Archeops' worst case, he's still good.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Emopanda133 said:
Considering it went 3-0 against Hydregion/Darkrai, I think it can hold it's own. The one person that played it at my BR went 3-3 and that's going against thre Dark-Region. The only decks it had problems with were Darkrai/Tornadus and Darkrai/Terrakion and even then she barely lost. Her list isn't perfect, it's missing some serious staples and it's wide spread, but that just proves that even in Archeops' worst case, he's still good.
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TBH, winning three games means nothing, especially with a fossil deck that's completely luck oriented. Sure, you might win 3 games in a tournament, but the you'll just go 3-X unless your luck is amazing. When Archeops was first released, I thought it was amazing. So, I tested a few (less than 5) games against one deck and won most of them. However, I went to league and lost all the matches. This is because I just tested against one deck, and Archeops is so unreliable. Sure, it might be able to win a few games against DarkraiHydreigon if it gets lucky, but it just can't make a good showing at tournaments because of its unreliability and it just dies to any deck that doesn't need evolutions to ko Archeops. (every deck that runs basic attackers, meaning 99% of the decks in the format) BTW, 3-3 at a battle roads is not good.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

pokemonjoe said:
TBH, winning three games means nothing, especially with a fossil deck that's completely luck oriented. Sure, you might win 3 games in a tournament, but the you'll just go 3-X unless your luck is amazing. When Archeops was first released, I thought it was amazing. So, I tested a few (less than 5) games against one deck and won most of them. However, I went to league and lost all the matches. This is because I just tested against one deck, and Archeops is so unreliable. Sure, it might be able to win a few games against DarkraiHydreigon if it gets lucky, but it just can't make a good showing at tournaments because of its unreliability and it just dies to any deck that doesn't need evolutions to ko Archeops. (every deck that runs basic attackers, meaning 99% of the decks in the format) BTW, 3-3 at a battle roads is not good.
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Back when he was released, the ruling was that Rare Candy went through the Ability, now it doesn't, which makes him great. Basic attackers? Zekrom and Darkrai are the most dangerous, Which is why she played Terrakion EX in her list, She has Mewtwo, and Terrakion for other EX's, to me, I think her pokemon line is fine, though I'd rather have Bouffalant, but that's beside the point. As for getting lucky against Darkrai/Hydregion, it's not about being lucky, it's about playing it right, Plume Fossil, Twist mountain, both can get Archeops out, easily mind you, Twist is flippy, but it still works. Really, it's nothing more than a Garbodor Deck, except with Archeops. Even if you have terrible luck, Terrakion/Mewtwo in it's own right is a sloid deck. Now, in all honesty, it did get handled by Darkrai/Tornadus and Darkrai/Terrakion, but both of those decks have great match-ups to Terrakion/Mewtwo anyways.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Emopanda133 said:
Back when he was released, the ruling was that Rare Candy went through the Ability, now it doesn't, which makes him great. Basic attackers? Zekrom and Darkrai are the most dangerous, Which is why she played Terrakion EX in her list, She has Mewtwo, and Terrakion for other EX's, to me, I think her pokemon line is fine, though I'd rather have Bouffalant, but that's beside the point. As for getting lucky against Darkrai/Hydregion, it's not about being lucky, it's about playing it right, Plume Fossil, Twist mountain, both can get Archeops out, easily mind you, Twist is flippy, but it still works. Really, it's nothing more than a Garbodor Deck, except with Archeops. Even if you have terrible luck, Terrakion/Mewtwo in it's own right is a sloid deck. Now, in all honesty, it did get handled by Darkrai/Tornadus and Darkrai/Terrakion, but both of those decks have great match-ups to Terrakion/Mewtwo anyways.
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When did I say Terrakion/Mewtwo was bad? That is a good deck. When you add Archeops, it sucks. Simple as that. And no, the official ruling was it blocked rare candy. Did people play it? No. If logic can't persuade you, look at facts. How many BR T4 does Archeops have? None. If it was so great, why doesn't it have any top 4's? And don't say its unappealing because the reason for its lack of appeal is because it's bad.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Archeops deck have a serious weakness, the Archeops itself! Darkrai is setting up and from then on will block you to get any further on the bench!
He night spears you for 30, then next turn catches it and then just evolves everything he has the next turn.
It is only strong against some decks and only when your lucky. You need a T2 Archeops or you are lost...
Since eel already has an eel then, Darkrai/Hydreigon a Hydreigon.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

As Hunga said, Arcehops has a lot of difficulties if it doesn't get the T2 set up. After that, even if it does, it's not too difficult to KO it unless your using a pure evolution deck, which there aren't a lot of. Zekeels has Mewtwo, Empoleon has Terrakion and Hydreigon has Darkrai.

I think Archeops is a great card with a great ability, but with so many Basic decks running around, and the non-basic decks being able to counter it, it's often just detrimental to the consistency of the deck it's being put into.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Hunga said:
Archeops deck have a serious weakness, the Archeops itself! Darkrai is setting up and from then on will block you to get any further on the bench!
He night spears you for 30, then next turn catches it and then just evolves everything he has the next turn.
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That would be 110 HP and archeops has 130 HP.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

New Question:

With the introduction of cards like Colress, Team Plasma Grunt, Skyla, and Hugh, what do you think standard Supporter lines will look like after the release of Plasma Gale and Boundaries Crossed? Feel free to include Random Receiver in your Supporter list.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

I would run it like this:

Boundaries Cross:
4 Juniper
4 N
3 Skyla (If stage 2 deck).
2 Cheren/Bianca/Hugh


Plasma Gale:
4 Juniper
3 N
4 Colress
3 Skyla (if stage 2 deck)
1/2 Cheren (possibly)
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

New Question:

How will Ghetsis and Thundurus EX affect the format when they are released in English? What cards do you see them working well with?

Ghetsis – Trainer
Supporter (Team Plasma)

Look at your opponent’s hand. Your opponent shuffles all Item cards there into his or her deck. Then, draw from your deck the amount of cards your opponent shuffled into his or her deck.

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).
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Thundurus-EX - Lightning - HP170
Basic Pokemon (Team Plasma)

[L] Thunder Knuckle: 30 damage. Attach an Energy card from your discard pile to one of your Team Plasma Pokemon.
[L][L][C][C] Loud Thunder: 90 damage. If this Pokemon has a Plasma Energy attached to it, discard an Energy card attached to the Defending Pokemon.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1
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RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Ghetsis is one of the best cards we will have in the format. First, you get to see what your opponent has in his hand. Second, you disrupt him and stop him from playing items the next turn. Finally, you get to draw the same amount of cards you made your opponent to shuffle.
Just imaging this with Stoutland getting your opponent into an almost complete trainer lock (drawing at the beginning of the turn/stadium). When it is not with Stoutland, you would have to play a lot of Skyla to get those items to your hand. It can also go good with Magnezone (Colress + Ghetsis or Skyla + Ghetsis). The only reason it wouldn't be broken (if it isn't) is that you don't discard the items (then bye bye ACE SPEC).
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Ghetsis + Stoutland won't be a good combo... Sure, in theorymon it's great, it's the best combo, but Landorus EX wrecks it, and if you get 1 attacker (like a Darkrai or even a Mewtwo) you won't be able to win with 90 damage for 3 energy in a stage 2 Pokémon and the chance of hitting yourself with 20.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Hence my signature.

Despite all the hype for Ghestis, I don't think it's actually as good as it seems. I mean, the effect is AMAZING, and I can bet it'll see a ton of play, but keep in mind that it's inconsistent draw that is often based around your opponent's playing. If your opponent doesn't have a lot of items, then you could have just wasted your supporter for the turn.

In fact, despite people saying it will break the format, I think it's actually good for the format. Why? Because all decks will now have to fear losing every item in their hand, meaning they're going to need a Supporter to get them all back. Therefore, no one is going to risk having low supporter counts, making all decks that people play much more consistent, decreasing the luck factor in the game. I know nearly everyone who reads this will disagree with me, and we have no idea what the meta will look like then, but Ghestis is not one of those cards that will utterly destroy the game as we know it.

As for Thundurus EX, the fact that it can get Special Energy back is very nice, but Colress Machine is a much better engine for accelerating energy and it doesn't use up an attack. Again, we have no idea what the meta will look like at that point, so it may fit very well into some decks, but as with Ghestis, I don't think it's a game breaker.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

Ghetsis is broken.
It is absolutely broken.
Any hand this format can be taken advantage of by it.
Ofcourse this is a prediction, but the card will more than likely wreck the format.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

New Discussion Topic: Spiral Force and Thunder Knuckle.

What cards out of this set are going to alter the format? How will the format change when this set is released? Will any of the new Ace Specs or EXs see play? What do you think the metagame is going to look like when these cards are released in English? What are the top 5 cards out of the sets? Discuss the competitive aspects of Spiral Force and Thunder Knuckle here.
 
RE: The Official Future Metagame Speculation Thread

I can see
Latias EX in Darkrai/Hydreigon.
Lugia/Deoxys/Thundurus, for quick prizes
Latias.dec (Latias/Mewtwo/Techs)
Chandelure/Heatran
 
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