PokeBeach's Official 5th Gen Ban List

RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

A counter has to be able to switch into an attack then immediately threaten a KO. Lucario can't switch into EQ. It is a check at best, but still, no one serious runs Specs Lucario that I know. Conkeldurr only can work as a counter if Excadrill isn't at +2. If it is already at +2, it is only a check and could be used to attempt to revenge KO it. The other problem is they could just as easily switch to Jellicent forcing you to switch to get out of that situation. If it does Wow and you sent in a physical attacker, one of your sweepers just got crippled.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

This is while Excadrill is using Swords Dance DE. If you anticipate it using Swords Dance then you can switch in either of them then get the OHKO. I may also say that Latias can survive Equake and then hit it with Surf if it has Scarf. Also Air Balloon Heatrans Fire Blast can get the kill as well. But the thing is you need to anticipate when Excadrill will use Swords Dance. It's hard enough as is but if done right you can counter it. Gyarados and Salamence intimidate cut its attack which would make it weaker. This means it will need to run Swords Dance more then it normally would.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

That's a lot of what-ifs. Sure, you can switch into something else if you anticipate Excadrill running Swords Dance, but there's such a thing as mis-prediction, and you might just end up inviting trouble for yourself. 'sides, like DE said, who runs Specs Lucario, even with Vacuum Wave involved? The same thing applies to Latias with Scarf; sure it can use Scarf, but why would you use that over something like Leftovers?

Gyarados doesn't run Intimidate all the time anymore, and even so, a +1 Rock Slide against Gyara or Mence can do a lot. And neither of those could outspeed an Excadrill in sand.
Out of all the things you listed, Heatran is the most reasonable check/counter.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Don't forget Latias who already has levitate. Choice Scarf combined with Surf can do alot to Excadrill.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I know Latias has Levitate, but to run Scarf on it for the sole purpose of outspeeding Excadrill (when other items like Leftovers could serve her much better) sounds a bit over-the-top.

And don't forget that Latias is weak to X-Scissor.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

True, but this when you can get the attack first. Latias would be a way to counter. Even Latios who has better Sp. Atk can handle Excadrill without any problems.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Latias can't outspeed Excadrill with a Choice Scarf. So if you mispredict and don't come in on the Earthquake, Latias is done.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Latias and Latios both have the Speed to do so while Scarfed. Though Idk what it is with it.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

/me checks

Assuming 252 Speed EVs and 31 Speed IV, it's 478 with a Speed-neutral nature, or 525 with a Speed-boosting nature. (Scarf is x1.5 to Speed, and both Eon twins have base 110 Speed.)
An Adamant Excadrill with 252 Speed EVs and 31 Speed IV reaches 550 Speed with Sand Rush, or 604 if it's Jolly.

Nope, Latias won't work.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

... Lol

(all of this is directed at AlphaNinja)

1) Read this: http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-competitive-battling-discussion-of-the-week-15?pid=2132740#pid2132740

2) Pretty sure we've explained to you what a counter was before. A counter isn't a Pokemon who can switch in and OHKO if the opponent doesn't predict the switch. A counter is a Pokemon that can switch in to any move with little to no problem and threaten back (ex; Bronzong counters Gliscor and Landorus and beats them with HO Ice).

Plus, a Pokemon isn't banned if it has zero counters. Look at Latias of last gen, who got countered by Tyranitar and Scizor. However, Latias overcentralized the metagame and forced you to run a combination of these dudes.

3) Actually play the game. No offense, but your posts come off as someone who know little to nothing about playing. Not trying to be mean by telling you this, it's just the truth.

Also, start actually putting facts behind your posts. If you would've ran the calcs (or actually played a game), you would've realized Lati@s, along with any scarfed Pokemon not named Drizzle Politoed and Scarfed Deoxys-s, clearly doesn't outspeed.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Scarf Ninetales could probably do it too, but then again, all that revolves around the fact that you have to take away Sandstorm to outspeed Excadrill. That would practically force you to run a counter to weather.
Also, it's sad that you have to SCARF a Deoxys-E (of all things!) just to outspeed a mole.

I wasn't predicting that there would be an Excadrill debate the morning after I changed my avatar, but for whatever reason, it's strangely fitting.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Actually, Nintales can run a Timid nature and 164 Speed EVs and outspeed.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

That gives it...304. 160 Speed EVs gives it 303, which is still one point faster than Excadrill outside of sand.
Even so...that involves cancelling Sand Stream with another weather ability or Cloud Nine. That involves actually keeping your weather summoner alive before Excadrill hits the field. And for people who don't run weather for whatever reason, that could be trouble.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Alpha ninja the problem with your logic is that this is all based on if excadrill uses swords dance and is pretty much the last pokemon the opponent has to use. Latias with surf? Lol my gastrodon with stormdrain says hi and thanks for the +1 to its sp. atk. Like the others have said Jellicent is immune to fighting moves meaning you just switched in and will have to switch out again unless you want to get one of your physical attackers crippled. Also I have a set with excadrill scarfed to combat other excadrill users that have cb so lets do the math 302 speed with max ev's and jolly nature + 151 speed boost thanks to scarf + 302 speed boost with sand up = 755 speed stat if that's not broken then call me stupid because I clearly don't know what broken is then.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

To correct you I haven't had much competitive play since my laptop crashed so I'm out of the lop. So all my info was from before the testing which was a long while ago. Which tells you how long it's been. Besides Excadrill wasn't designed as a beast to begin with but with diffrent sets I didn't antisipate it becomming Uber due to Sand Rush since I didn't know how Sand Rush worked.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

bacon said:
I disagree with the global Shadow Tag ban. Wobby is not even OU, while Goth and Chandelure are not yet available through dream world. There is no reason to ban it unless people can argue that Wobby is strongly uncompetitive, like the Moody ability.
Click to expand...

If nobody can provide a solid argument as to why I should do otherwise, I'm gonna go ahead and remove the Shadow Tag ban :p
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

That sounds fine. I don't really see Wobby get used much on the server anyways, and Shadow Tag will only be a problem when Chandelure gets it. Then we can have the appropriate discussion on whether or not it should be banned.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

When Chandelure comes we can talk about its banning, but for the moment I see no problem with it going.

Does anyone want to remove Lax Incense and Bright Powder and put them under the evasion clause? Nobody is really going to use them now that Chomp is long gone (sub leftovers chomp was actually better, jus sayin). We already have this in our tournament format thread:

Sand Veil and Snow Cloak do not break this clause. BrightPowder and Lax Incense do break this clause.
Click to expand...
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Again, that sounds good to me. Anything to clean up a general mess of a ban list will help. If anybody else has some edits/suggestions to make, we'd always appreciate hearing them.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

oh. I thought it was just shadow tag shandy that was banned. But it's everything. Sure, go ahead and remove it. :F

Let's drop lugia to OU while we're at it.
 
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