PokeBeach's Official 5th Gen Ban List

RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Tyrant Tyranitar said:
Togekiss, which is OU, Jirachi does the job better imo then Togekiss.
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Actually, Togekiss is UU (by Smogon standards). It fell at #60 on the Usage Statistics that were released.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Tyrant Tyranitar said:
Lolololol, Skymin is Ubers because of its insane speed, access to flinch hax, and overall of course outspeeds everything nonscarfed(mainly said). If you've ever played Ubers, you'd see that it's a top threat even there. I use it, and it's hard to kill even with the frailness it has (SubSeed), it's sure as heck durable. And King's Rock? There's a clause that disallows hax items. Your sig reminds me of the Starburst commercials, no offense.
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This is why... I never knew Skymin's Speed base stat, so I kept trying to outspeed it. Thanks for ending my conundrums for me. But the two rookies I faced with it said it was OU. Now I can shove this in their faces.

Why are the Keldeo/Meloetta/Genesect trio banned? If it's just because they're unreleased, fine. But I'd like to go more indepth. Don't troll me with the "unreleased" stuff.

Keldeo may have a huge SAtk and Spe stat, but he has one of the worst movepools for a legend. He only learns Water/Fighting/Normal as main moves, along with HP. What good does that do? Well, at least he has access to SD, CM, and Work Up. That and his stats are the only good features, along with two base 120 STAB moves.

Meloetta just has her Voice support set and Steppe sweeper set going. The SDef and SAtk on Voice is blasphemous, and she has a wide range of sets to work around CM and T-Wave. Steppe has unparalleled Spe and great Atk, but has no access to support moves (Is SD on her?). CC, U-Turn, Shadow Claw and Quick Attack is her best. A rather odd movepool for Steppe if you ask me.

Genesect seems to be the best of the three. Here's a set from the Gym I cooked up and tested. It can sweep teams quite easily.


Genesect@Life Orb
Download
Hasty/Naive
4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe EVs
U-Turn
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
T-Bolt

It has the infamous BoltBeam trick, a switch out, a chance for each of Burn, Paralysis, or Freeze conditions, and plenty of defense to support itself. I don't think it needs the Scarf, rather it needs a power boost while still being able to hit for weakness AND hit-and-run. Only a Life Orb set can really do that. But the role i think he's best at is a revenge killer. Hydreigon and Haxorus both die by his hand due to Ice Beam and U-Turn. He also OHKOs Ferrothorn and Escavalier, 2HKOs Jellicent and Amoonguss (The latter is possible OHKO), and so much more. The only 5th Gen fighter he needs to worry about is Scarfed Chandelure, but why would you keep it in in the first place anyhow?

There you go.

~AoH
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Any Pokemon that has not been released is automatically banned in OU.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Step Forme can't be Choice Banded btw, you actually have to use Ancient Song in order to use Step Forme. And doesn't matter on stats for unreleased Pokemon. They're banned till they come out, then they get tested.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

First, I said that CB was only theoretical. I didn't know it needed Ancient Song when I came up with that set.

Second, I wanted to hypothesize on their playability. Let's just say they're released now. How do they compare to the metagame? (I just know a dragonexpert rant is coming...)

~AoH
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Since you are expecting me to reply then I will.

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Keldeo has great Special Attack and Speed at 129 and 108 respectively. The problem with it is that its movepool is just not great. It doesn't get a wide variety of moves to take advantage of its stats. There are two main sets I can think of that would get used. One of these is a Choice Specs set which takes advantage of Keldio's high Special Attack and Speed. Surf, Sacred Sword, Hidden Power Ice, and Secret Sword is what I would think would be the best moveset for the choice variety since Surf has perfect accuracy, and this set is also able to hit Blissey hard due to Secret Sword causing physical damage. One might opt to use Focus Blast over Sacred Sword for more power, but then you have potential misses due to the move having only 70 accuracy. I feel that a Calm Mind set would probably be the best option overall for Keldio. It would allow you to create a bulky sweeper, much like Suicune. The improved Speed and Special Attack is what can really set it apart from Suicune, though it does lose a bit of the defenses. Its ability is ok, but nothing that great. I think it would be on the lower end of the OU spectrum in terms of actual tier. If it could learn a natural ice attack instead of Ice Beam, it would be a lot better.

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Meloetta I would predict to be OU. It has great Special Attack and Special Defense at a base 128 each. Its base Defense is ok at 77, but not great. Base 100 in HP is above average. It has a diverse move pool, but since it can't raise its Defense, OU seems like it would be ok for it. Its very good in theory, but I don't think it would be to the point of being broken. To me it seems like it would be similar to how good Latias is. It isn't broken, but it is very good. I know Latios isn't banned, but it is more likely to get banned than Latias. Meloetta also has only a base 90 Speed which makes it not quite as good either when you consider that Hydreigon is faster, though with Meloetta's Special Defense should allow it to survive 1-2 Dark Pulse depending on how you EV it. It could make a decent sweeper and Calm Minder.

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Genesect is very powerful. Its stats are naturally set up to let it be a sweeper with 120 in both attacking stats and 99 in Speed. It also possess the ability Download which will raise its Attack or Special Attack depending on what Pokemon you bring Genesect in on. Once Download activates the stat that got raised to get above 450, though most commonly a special set would be run based on the movepool. It would be borderline between OU and Ubers. If I had to vote, I'd probably vote it Uber because it will get a free boost once it first comes in on an opponent then it can sweep very well on its own with a wide variety of moves at its disposal. It also is only weak to fire moves and has a valuable resistance to dragon type moves.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Thankfully for Meloetta it doesn't have many weaknesses. Most Dark and Bug type attacks are special (Bug Buzz, Dark Pulse, etc.). But attacks like Crunch, U-Turn, and even Payback can really cause a problem for it.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Sorry to nitpick lol, but you're forgetting that Meloetta can change into its faster and more physical hard hitting Step Forme and Genesect is vulnerable to ground moves too :p

648Meloia-s.gif


While yes, Meloetta-S requires the use of Ancient Song, it is in quite a few ways different from Meloetta's usual forme. It's faster and has more attack. At a neutral nature it runs 292 Speed, faster then the other forme, along with also 292 Atk, this alone gives it some good qualities. Using an Adamant (+atk, -Sp. atk) nature gives it 355 Speed and 390 attack (Jolly is swapped between the two), may seem Godly, it is quite frail, and to back that up, it also has a physical movepool of quite a few poor moves, albeit it does have three, which it is only limited too (Ancient Song takes up one space). Which I usually run Quick Attack or Stone Edge, Shadow Claw, and Close Combat, which isn't too much coverage. Either way I'm on the fence for this, as it is a bit hindered by only three usable moves, yet has some amazing states, outspeeding Latios and Latias with ease, and most threatening Pokemon that are too slow, whilst also atleasting denting them, but in contrast, it's a glass cannon in itself.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Tyrant Tyranitar said:
Sorry to nitpick lol, but you're forgetting that Meloetta can change into its faster and more physical hard hitting Step Forme and Genesect is vulnerable to ground moves too :p
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Uh, yeah. OK. Does that give meleotta any less weaknesses? Instead, it will become weak to Flying and Psychic, both of which are just as common in the forms of Hurricane (Tornado Bro, which still outspeeds), Air Slash (from Togekiss which can paralyze and lower speed), and the psychic moves all come from stuff that either outspeed, or resist any fighting moves it throws out. oh, it's also vulnerable to fighting, which is on e of the most common types in the game with Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Machamp, Lucario, and Breloom running around. And that's just the stuff with STAB. Not just things that are randomly Scarfed/Banded with Superpower.

Also, no, Genesect isn't. It's Steel/Bug, so it's neutral, just like Scizor is. It only has 1 weakness, which is fire.

Not to mention the fact that none of these are even released yet, so we still have no business in discussing them.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I didn't know Genesect wasn't SE against Ground moves ._. and Fighting isn't SE against it either? And yes changing it does decrease the few weaknesses (Changes from Normal and Psychic to Normal and Fighting) :p Psychic to Fighting loses Dark and Bug(Lol)
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

It changes them. It does not lose them. It merely gains weaknesses that it didn't have before, some of which, as I pointed out, are even more common. (Fighting/Normal, not pure fighting, so it gains a weakness to fighting, as well as to psychic and flying.)
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Fighting types? And Flying types (lolother Tornadus and Togekiss, nothing else really)? And Psychic? Fighting I see common, Flying moves? There are only few Pokemon I see with Flying moves, which are either Air Slash or Hurricane, both only come on specific Pokemon. Fighting types? I only see Machamp, Kojondo, and Konkeldurr (sp) and even then Meloetta-S outspeeds. 355 Speed outspeeds all of these. This also includes Psychic types, rare though they are (excluding Alakazam, as it outspeeds if Meloetta-S is Adamant). Btw, I just saw your earlier post about Tornadus and Hurricane, while yes, it could kill, Meloetta will usually have Stone Edge, which, chances are, will KO Tornadus before it can use Hurricane.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Tyrant Tyranitar said:
Fighting types? And Flying types (lolother Tornadus and Togekiss, nothing else really)? Psychic?hting I see common, Flying moves? There are only few Pokemon I see with Flying moves, which are either Air Slash or Hurricane, both only come on specific Pokemon. Fighting types? I only see Machamp, Kojondo, and Konkeldurr (sp) and even then Meloetta-S outspeeds. 355 Speed outspeeds all of these. This also inclu Psychic types, rare though they are luding Alakazam, as it outspeeds if Meloetta-S is Adamant). Btw, I just saw your earlier post about Tornadus and Hurricane, while yes, it could kill, Meloetta will usually have Stone Edge, which, chances are, will KO Tornadus before it can use Hurricane.
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reuniclus_by_grenvylol-d3ds06f.png


(D'awwwwwwwwww)

Yeah, have fun OHKOing that with Shadow Claw.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I will have tons of fun ;-; and I didn't say OHKOing Reuniclus (Yep, I believe I might have remembered his name)
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Well you still get smashed by a Psychic/Psyshock and will probably get OHKO'd anyways, thanks to its horrible defenses.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

Tyrant Tyranitar said:
Fighting types? And Flying types (lolother Tornadus and Togekiss, nothing else really)? And Psychic? Fighting I see common, Flying moves? There are only few Pokemon I see with Flying moves, which are either Air Slash or Hurricane, both only come on specific Pokemon. Fighting types? I only see Machamp, Kojondo, and Konkeldurr (sp) and even then Meloetta-S outspeeds. 355 Speed outspeeds all of these. This also includes Psychic types, rare though they are (excluding Alakazam, as it outspeeds if Meloetta-S is Adamant). Btw, I just saw your earlier post about Tornadus and Hurricane, while yes, it could kill, Meloetta will usually have Stone Edge, which, chances are, will KO Tornadus before it can use Hurricane.
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If you think you're going to be OHKO'ing any of those fighting types outside of Mienshao (aka Kojondo), then you're high. All of them are exremely bulky, and will OHKO you because your defenses are terrible, and they carry super effective STAB moves. Oh, and Conkeldurr has Mach Punch. Just throwing that out there.

You still won't OHKO any good psychics. Reuniclus, Latios, Latias, and Jirachi are probably the most common Pokémon that carry psychic moves. All of them have at least base 80 Defense (at least.) All of them hit you with either Psychic or Psyshock, and all of them have access to some kind of recovery move to shrug off any damage you get them with. Oh, and Jirachi doesn't have to use Psychic, it can just paralyze you with body slam and then flinch you to death.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

:/ I was talking about OHKOing Borutorosu and Togekiss. And I already know about Jirachi, I've faced it before.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

I refuse too, Japanese names are more easy to remember (and most are less stupid then English names) lol, and yes.
 
RE: PokeBeach's Official Ban List

^ikr. I almost ALWAYS type Nattorei once or twice before I actually realize that its supposed to be Ferrothorn.
 
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