Apparently the Chandelure matchup is also horribly annoying.
THE Durant thread: Durant NV.
- Thread starter Nizolka33
- Start date
Chandelure, which of course everyone plays...?
Yeah, I guess it would, though. You have Resistance, but that placing-damage-counters thing isn't very fun. With Burn/Confused, it could get very difficult; I guess you just have to do as much as you can before the Chandelure comes up. That is, if you ever play against Chandelure.
Yeah, I guess it would, though. You have Resistance, but that placing-damage-counters thing isn't very fun. With Burn/Confused, it could get very difficult; I guess you just have to do as much as you can before the Chandelure comes up. That is, if you ever play against Chandelure.
Possible help for this deck(AFAIK it hsant been said).
Max Potion: I allows you to heal benched durant that may or may not have energy. This greatly helps the chandelure matchup and the kyurem matchup. Granted it may not be needed but with junk arm a 1-2 card tech may help this deck in certain games.
Max Potion: I allows you to heal benched durant that may or may not have energy. This greatly helps the chandelure matchup and the kyurem matchup. Granted it may not be needed but with junk arm a 1-2 card tech may help this deck in certain games.
One energy is annoying to replace though; I often find myself using Twins for another one, which isn't fun. I'd opt for SSU/Seeker over Max Potion because, while it's not automatic/takes up a Supporter, respectively, it saves the energy (plus, SSU is Junk Arm-able).
I've played a ton of mirrior matches lately and have found them to be pretty even. Doesn't matter who goes first, both players have a good shot at winning. Normally it just comes down to who knows how to use their deck better, not who goes first. I've been T1 milled for 4 with nothing but rotom starting and have come back for a win multiple times. LR/CH/catcher are all godly in the mirror.
^That's basically how it works with Durant. It does a very good job of capitalizing on an opponent's bad hand, but if their hand is good enough to get setup quickly without burning resources, you usually lose.
It's a great deck, but it's stupidly luck-based. Adding Weavile, Spiritomb, N, etc make the deck a little more skill-based, but it's not enough to take away the initial luck factor.
It's a great deck, but it's stupidly luck-based. Adding Weavile, Spiritomb, N, etc make the deck a little more skill-based, but it's not enough to take away the initial luck factor.
Score, I made it into somebody's sig. The point I was making is that it isn't 1 sided down to the point that all that matters is the flip for who goes first. It's 50/50, no matter who goes first or who gets set up first. ie: tyram is pretty much about who can set up their typhlosions first then it's about 70-30 at that point, Durant doesn't care if you get your 4 Durant out first, it's 50/50 til game.
Celebi23 said:
adding weavile and spiritomb also makes it a considerably worse deck. regardless of what deck you're playing, if your opponent's hand is good enough to get setup quickly without burning resources, you have a lower chance of winning than if they had a bad opening hand. your argument is pretty silly. there's more to this deck than you might believe.
kyurem is not a bad matchup. the key to winning is varying the damage on your field. this doesn't really require any healing cards, its easy enough to handle with a couple sp. metals/eviolites/defenders placed around. basically, you just dont want 2 durants dying in 1 turn.
I've tested the deck plenty, and I stand by my analysis of it. Besides, at least I made an argument, silly as it apparently is.
It just scoops to both Reshiram and Zekrom if they get a good enough opening hand. The only way out at that point is to hit an insane amount of Crushing Hammer heads; not something I would base my game on. Not to mention that you pretty much always start with one basic. I've been donked countless times with this deck.
I thought the same about Spiritomb and Weavile at first, but after testing Spiritomb, I refuse to drop it. Adding it in, however, makes Weavile somewhat necessary to avoid starting with Spiritomb/Rotom. Weavile has also won me a good few games; not as many as I would have liked, but more than any other free retreating starter would have. The deck does need a free retreating starter; having 2/6 of your basics being unsafe starts is bad.
Other decks have the ability to outplay an opponent, or at least overpower them, regardless of their opening hand. With Durant, your entire game plan relies on your opponent. It completely depends on how many cards they opt to discard/draw, and how quickly and consistently they can knock out your Durants. There is only one usable attack in the deck, and if they successfully mess with that attack enough, you're going to lose.
Good to see you contributing again, btw.
It just scoops to both Reshiram and Zekrom if they get a good enough opening hand. The only way out at that point is to hit an insane amount of Crushing Hammer heads; not something I would base my game on. Not to mention that you pretty much always start with one basic. I've been donked countless times with this deck.
I thought the same about Spiritomb and Weavile at first, but after testing Spiritomb, I refuse to drop it. Adding it in, however, makes Weavile somewhat necessary to avoid starting with Spiritomb/Rotom. Weavile has also won me a good few games; not as many as I would have liked, but more than any other free retreating starter would have. The deck does need a free retreating starter; having 2/6 of your basics being unsafe starts is bad.
Other decks have the ability to outplay an opponent, or at least overpower them, regardless of their opening hand. With Durant, your entire game plan relies on your opponent. It completely depends on how many cards they opt to discard/draw, and how quickly and consistently they can knock out your Durants. There is only one usable attack in the deck, and if they successfully mess with that attack enough, you're going to lose.
Good to see you contributing again, btw.
I don't know about you, but even without running spiritomb and weavile in mine with something like 45 trainers in the list, I have to make cuts that i'm not overly happy about. I'm maxed out on N in my list, and i've never felt the need for more shuffle-my-opponent cards than that. What are you using to get weaviles out of your deck? twins? Or are you playing another specific trainer to get them out that you wouldnt be using otherwise? regardless it seems like you're losing a lot of resource space just to discard a couple cards over the course of a game. resource space that from my testing, the deck can't afford to lose.
In my opinion, the only ABSOLUTE AUTO LOSS this deck has is vs. a turn 2 typhlosion. The deck is also more susceptible to zekrom donks than most due to its low basic count, but the amount of resources it requires to pull of turn 1 means that if you DO go first or start with 2+ basics, you have a good chance of putting them in a more difficult position after that whether by catchers, crushing hammers, etc.
In my opinion, the only ABSOLUTE AUTO LOSS this deck has is vs. a turn 2 typhlosion. The deck is also more susceptible to zekrom donks than most due to its low basic count, but the amount of resources it requires to pull of turn 1 means that if you DO go first or start with 2+ basics, you have a good chance of putting them in a more difficult position after that whether by catchers, crushing hammers, etc.
I think it's pretty much a joke deck, but it's actually a pretty respectable joke deck. in a lot of matchups if you don't know what you're doing and/or don't get a supremely ideal opening hand, it will tear you apart. it's like SF machamp but backwards.
and im playing it for a cities regardless because idgaf
and im playing it for a cities regardless because idgaf
This is basically the right analysis of it.esperante said:
It is most certainly a threat. Test against it, because you play a completely different strategy against this deck than you would other decks. For example, if you're using Reshiram/Typhlosion, your ideal start is a Cyndaquil, and you never want to even drop Reshiram if you can avoid it. All you want out is one Typhlosion, and as many energy on it as you can have. Ninetales is a perfectly fine attacker, too, so long as you open Vulpix. It's just more vulnerable to Crushing Hammer. Another example; if you're playing Yanmega/Magnezone against this and you don't run 2+ PlusPower with 4 Junk Arm, you should just scoop up your cards if they get 3 or more Durant out T1.
It's especially threatening to decks that rely on Magnezone, Donphan, or Yanmega, since none of these attackers can consistently OHKO Durants without expending a lot of resources. Weavile and Spiritomb are great at removing some of these resources. It's also great against Twins-based decks, since they rely on the Twins you never give them. Note, however, that Magneboar can stand up to it by attacking with Emboar.
You can read more about it and my opinion on it in my Cities article that was supposed to go up today. I still have gotten no word on when it will go up, but it will obviously be up pre-Cities.
Fun Fact: A Chandelure deck that I have been testing, which actually does quite well, is an autoloss to Durant. Chandelure alone does 0 damage to Durant w/ evolite and special metal, and his ability is not enough to KO all the durants at once. Trying to set up more than one Chandelure just uses way too many resources.
Another odd deck match up report brought to you by Meta-Armor
Another odd deck match up report brought to you by Meta-Armor
I have three N in mine. Basically, I did -1 N, +1 Spiritomb. It didn't hurt consistency at all.esperante said:
I'm using Twins to get the Weaviles, yes. It's been enough to get them when I need them, and I rarely feel pressure to hit one when I don't have it. Getting out a Weavile at a certain point in the game is nowhere near mandatory, it's just a nice card to threaten your opponent with. Just benching the Sneasel can change their entire game plan.
I had to drop the 4th Crushing Hammer or only Lost Remover (still undecided about which to keep), the 3rd TRT, but that was it as far as cards I cut that I would want in again. The deck does have plenty of free space.
I would say Duant, like Magneboar, is hovering somewhere around tier 2. Durant has some really good matchups. Both Vileplume and Gothetelle variants, imho, have serious problems with Durant since both are used to running on Twins to get setup. Durant resists Gothetelle, meaning it needs another energy drop to even kill an Ant. However, Dragons are very bad matchups like many have noted, and they are the most popular decks in the format. I can see Durant being a fairly common random threat in smaller tournaments though. It's very cheap and can be very effective against the right decks.