The Mewtwo EX/Eelektrik/Zekrom Discussion Thread

[alex]

Darkrai is an even prize trade. That would only be true if Darkrai only did 90 damage, nothing else. If that was the only piece of the puzzle, the matchup would be 50-50 or even in Eels favor. But Darkrai takes an extra prize very two turn, which Eels cannot keep up with unless thy use cards to prevent Darkrai from attacking or by taking multiple prizes per turn (ex. Terrakion, N).

The Pikachu Mafia, out of every single game that I have played, I have almost never had trouble getting a third Darkrai out.

 

[MDL]

If the Zekeels player knows what he's doing, you'll only take an extra prize every 3 turns.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

Darkrai is an even prize trade. That would only be true if Darkrai only did 90 damage, nothing else. If that was the only piece of the puzzle, the matchup would be 50-50 or even in Eels favor. But Darkrai takes an extra prize very two turn, which Eels cannot keep up with unless thy use cards to prevent Darkrai from attacking or by taking multiple prizes per turn (ex. Terrakion, N).

The Pikachu Mafia, out of every single game that I have played, I have almost never had trouble getting a third Darkrai out.

um, your taking 2 prizes every other turn because of the snipe? well with zekrom BLW I'm taking two prizes every other turn because you're an EX =P so it's a fair prize trade and therfor an even matchup. (seriously think about what you're saying, if spread works soo well against zeels then why doesn't CaKE or any kyurem related deck have a positive matchup against him?)

good darkrai players will beat zeels players, and good zeels players certainly wont have an unfavorable matchup against darkrai...

also if darkrai doesn't run mewtwo I'll just slap half my energy on him and ko 2 darkrai at least before going down (that's 4 prizes in the bag)

 

[Dork Void]

um, your taking 2 prizes every other turn because of the snipe? well with zekrom BLW I'm taking two prizes every other turn because you're an EX =P so it's a fair prize trade and therfor an even matchup. (seriously think about what you're saying, if spread works soo well against zeels then why doesn't CaKE or any kyurem related deck have a positive matchup against him?)

good darkrai players will beat zeels players, and good zeels players certainly wont have an unfavorable matchup against darkrai...

also if darkrai doesn't run mewtwo I'll just slap half my energy on him and ko 2 darkrai at least before going down (that's 4 prizes in the bag)

I don't think you understood what other people meant.. Darkrai is taking a prize every 2-3 turns off your bench in addition to the prizes it takes from your active, which should be an even trade without the 30 to the bench-the bench damage wins Darkrai the prize trade usually. Kyurem is not even close to Darkrai, Darkrai is KOing your attackers and taking prizes consistently while Kyurem needs 3-4 turns to start taking any prizes. Also, Kyurem's most commonly used acceleration put it down on the prize trade even more and its other acceleration was inconsistent and easy to stop. Kyurem is not comparable to Darkrai in any way.

Also, how in the world are you OHKOing Darkrai with Mewtwo EX anyway? You are aware that that takes 7 energy on Mewtwo right?

 

[alex]

um, your taking 2 prizes every other turn because of the snipe? well with zekrom BLW I'm taking two prizes every other turn because you're an EX =P so it's a fair prize trade and therfor an even matchup. (seriously think about what you're saying, if spread works soo well against zeels then why doesn't CaKE or any kyurem related deck have a positive matchup against him?)

good darkrai players will beat zeels players, and good zeels players certainly wont have an unfavorable matchup against darkrai...

also if darkrai doesn't run mewtwo I'll just slap half my energy on him and ko 2 darkrai at least before going down (that's 4 prizes in the bag)

...What?

Darkrai OHKOs your active non EX for one prize. The next turn, he OHKOs another non EX. The following turn, he will OHKO yet another active non EX and KO a benched Eel that he has been stacking snipes on. That is 4 prizes in 3 turns. You deal 120 damage to the active Darkrai. The next turn you knock it out. The following turn, you deal 120 to it. That is (technically) 3 prizes in one turn.

Because Kyurem is a completely different card. It deals 30 to everything. Darkrai does 90 to the active and 30 to the bench. There are almost no similarities between the two cards. Kyurem spreads. Darkrai attacks and snipes.

If a good player played against another player of the exact same skill level, the person with the deck with the most advantages would win. Of course a person with a higher skill level would beat a person of a lower skill level. I never said anything in the opposite, where did that come from?

Yeah. Good luck getting 8 energy on to one pokemon in a single turn. Besides, some Darkrais do play Mewtwo.

edit: Ninja'd.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

I don't think you understood what other people meant.. Darkrai is taking a prize every 2-3 turns off your bench in addition to the prizes it takes from your active, which should be an even trade without the 30 to the bench-the bench damage wins Darkrai the prize trade usually. Kyurem is not even close to Darkrai, Darkrai is KOing your attackers and taking prizes consistently while Kyurem needs 3-4 turns to start taking any prizes. Also, Kyurem's most commonly used acceleration put it down on the prize trade even more and its other acceleration was inconsistent and easy to stop. Kyurem is not comparable to Darkrai in any way.

Also, how in the world are you OHKOing Darkrai with Mewtwo EX anyway? You are aware that that takes 7 energy on Mewtwo right?

yes didn't I say half my energy? =P

without mewtwo in a darkrai deck, putting 7 energy on mewtwo is a safer play an it's actaully less if you have DCE (plus eviolite if you have it) you OHKO them, they 3hko you, even with bench damage you be wayy ahead in the prize race like that.

I've been looking at week 1 BR results and so far, zeels has more wins in the bag than darkrai does (also he has more top cut slots) so what was that about darkrai being favorable against zeels? if that were the case then zeels wouldn't be doing so well in week 1....

 

[alex]

yes didn't I say half my energy? =P

without mewtwo in a darkrai deck, putting 7 energy on mewtwo is a safer play an it's actaully less if you have DCE (plus eviolite if you have it) you OHKO them, they 3hko you, even with bench damage you be wayy ahead in the prize race like that.

I've been looking at week 1 BR results and so far, zeels has more wins in the bag than darkrai does (also he has more top cut slots) so what was that about darkrai being favorable against zeels? if that were the case then zeels wouldn't be doing so well in week 1....

You still haven't answered how you are going to get a whooping 7 energy on to a Mewtwo in one turn. And how does Darkrai 3HKO you? They 2HKO you.

That's the first week of BRs. First of all, a Darkrai deck costs like $200+. I may not be able to play it because of the cost and the limited time to get it, I'm sure there are countless other people with the same thing holding them back. Also, take a look at Norwegian Nationals. I believe both decks in top 2 were Darkrai. And a Nationals is a lot bigger than BRs.

 

[Ka$h Money]

Darkrai seems to be fairing pretty well when it has played in tournaments. I feel it'll probably be amongst the BCIF once the rotation happens.

 

[MDL]

You still haven't answered how you are going to get a whooping 7 energy on to a Mewtwo in one turn. And how does Darkrai 3HKO you? They 2HKO you.

That's the first week of BRs. First of all, a Darkrai deck costs like $200+. I may not be able to play it because of the cost and the limited time to get it, I'm sure there are countless other people with the same thing holding them back. Also, take a look at Norwegian Nationals. I believe both decks in top 2 were Darkrai. And a Nationals is a lot bigger than BRs.

Shaymin UL.

Yeah, Darkrai may have won Norwegian Nationals, but really, it's still too early to say which one is the best deck. We should wait and see more results.

 

[Card Slinger J]

Yeah Darkrai/Tornadus won a BR's in my area so far. The other decks that made Top 4 in the Finals were a consistent ZekEels deck, CMT, and some other deck I forgot.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

yes, shaymin thanks Roronoa Zoro

@Alexmf: try eviolite, unless drakrai has darkness claw or 2 sp darkness (not impossible but whatever), it's a 3hko =P and after I ko like 2 of your darkrai, your deck begins to lose alot of power since it will probably only run 3 copies (and no offense but CMT and zeels both cost $200+ as well, why? because mewtwo is worth as much as darkrai, and they need tornadus EX as well...)

Nats that aren't in the US don't mean anything to me (a US resident) ZPS won Mexican nats, did that change the fact that ZPS wasn't a safe play?

 

[alex]

A Dark Claw or 2 Sp. Dark is very easy to get.

So a Nationals doesn't mean anything to you, but 5-10 people BRs do?

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

I never said it wasn't impossible but if you hit them first mid-late game with mewtwo for a OHKO darkrai is going to have a hard time finding the dark claw/sp dark he needs to make it a 2hko (even if he does you still take down 2 darkrai)

no no no no no nats mean almost nothing to me if they aren't in the same country as I. BR's in the long run have more attendance and everyone can go to them easy, do you think everyone is rich enough to play at nats? Also what happens in the first week of BR's will probably continue, meaning more zeels wins than darkrai. Also at the nats, how many top cut spots did zeels get? How many did Darkrai get? Remember CMT won the ECC, but that didn't make it as good as zeels...

 

[alex]

If you can get 7 energy on a Mewtwo in one turn. If.

I'm fine with you not liking one tournament's results as proof that a deck is good, I'm not fine with you saying that BRs prove viability more than a Nats. That's just flat out wierd.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

the whole matchup is a bunch of if's, if you could get 2 darkrai fully loaded, if I could get 5 energy on mewtwo + DCE (which is basically the same as loading 2 darkrai)

nats is a bigger tournament than any one BR's yes, but BR's in the US I would trust over a foreign nats, their meta could be completely different over there. US nats is slightly different, because I'm playing in a US metagame

also I ask my question again, how many zeels made top cut at the nats you keep talking about? did they get more top cut slots than darkrai? if so then zeels proved to be the better deck at that tournament, regardless what actually won. (take the 1 Durant regional win for example, it was certainly not the best deck there, but it won.)

 

[alex]

Getting two Darkrais fully loaded over the course of a game is definitely not to be compared to getting 7-8 energy on a Mewtwo in a single turn. It's easy to charge the Darkrais, manually and then with Dark Patch if you need to. It's literally impossible to get 7-8 energy on a Mewtwo in one turn without Shaymin. Even with Shaymin it is very hard as you wont have much energy on the field.

I think there were 1-3 Eels that made cut. Regardless, the better deck does not make more top cuts, that just depends on how many skillful players are using the deck. The better deck wins.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

not always, was CMT better than zeels? was ZPS better than Megazone? Is Magneboar better than The Truth? All those decks won tournaments (big ones at that) but they aren't "better" than the other deck just because they won one tournament, even if they were, now everyone would tech their decks to beat darkrai and he'd lose alot more.

also on mewtwo it's not as hard to load 7ish energy onto mewtwo as you think =P first you double dynamotor, then attach DCE, then OHKO a damaged darkrai, next turn attach DCE/energy, switch, dynamotor, retreat and you can OHKO anything they have.

Edit: did some snooping, there were more zeels than darkrai in the top 8 of the nats, which helps prove my point.... (he gets more top cut slots at nats AND wins more US BR's than darkrai as far as I know.... I don't see what more proof is needed...)

 

[alex]

As I said before, I'm fine with you not liking a deck any more just because it won a single tournament. Hell, I don't either. I was just using that as a counter to your argument. What is really just plain false is that you're bringing Battle Roads into this. Battle Roads have like 5 people. A lot of competitive players don't even play in them, and if they do they only play semi-competitive decks just to have a good time. I will not take Battle Roads results to prove anything.

You can do that. That is why some Darkrai players play Mewtwo. What's impossible is charging it up in one turn, which is what you were saying before.

In response to your edit:

I think there were 1-3 Eels that made cut. Regardless, the better deck does not make more top cuts, that just depends on how many skillful players are using the deck. The better deck wins.

Plus we both agree that one tournament proves nothing either way.

 

[iisnumber12]

2 Battleroads have happened in the US so far (Per area). There is no way to decide BDIF yet. Zekeels has proven it is a great deck. We know Darkrai has potential, but it still isn't clearly better than Zekeels. The BDIF will become much closer to clear towards the end of BRs and Nats.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

As I said before, I'm fine with you not liking a deck any more just because it won a single tournament. Hell, I don't either. I was just using that as a counter to your argument. What is really just plain false is that you're bringing Battle Roads into this. Battle Roads have like 5 people. A lot of competitive players don't even play in them, and if they do they only play semi-competitive decks just to have a good time. I will not take Battle Roads results to prove anything.

You can do that. That is why some Darkrai players play Mewtwo. What's impossible is charging it up in one turn, which is what you were saying before.

In response to your edit:


Plus we both agree that one tournament proves nothing either way.

for masters BR's have like 20-40 people, not 5 (unless were going by senior/Junior divisions here...)