http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-darkrai-groudon
The Mewtwo EX/Eelektrik/Zekrom Discussion Thread
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alexmf2 said:
I've only lost to one darkrai varient so far in all my testing so honestly I don't see it being too much of a problem. Against CMT it really depends on the start as it always has.
Card Slinger J said:
I literally just played against this deck and although in theory the idea behind the deck is solid, it is just to slow to keep up with the energy acceleration if you get any eels set up so again I don't see it being a huge problem.
How does ZekEels die out? It will be as strong as it is now. A couple of ZekEels varients top cutted in the Japanese version of Nats which is BW on.
zeels gained, Ultra Ball, Raikou EX, Tornadus EX, Random Receiver etc. from the et set, giving it more speed and power than pre-DE, in return it has to fight new deck which are all 50/50-favorable for the zeels player, to me it looks like the deck is even better now....
sorry but I have to disagree, eels can be abused more than dark patch, darkrai is no faster than CMT was, their late game is horrible, you exchanging 2HKO's using non EX attackers (zekrom) so even if they do hit down a tynamo they're only getting 2 prizes, and with the right energy drops, he's vunerable to mewtwo EX. zeels rules the late game, and any weavile/zoroark/tornadus EX are immediately catcher prizes the moment they're played down.... It's a good deck, but zeels is far far better, and can easily tech better attackers.
it's a prize trade, until you realize darkrai EX is worth 2 prizes, and zekrom is only worth 1. Your argument makes no sense since the zeels player can still easily keep up and get ahead. Weavile is deadly, but it's sadly just like eels in the sense that it's a stage one, catcher/raikou ko basics and finish off by destroying an EX or two, after they run out of weavile, they're quickly going to have to go to darkrai, while zeels can have a whole host of non EX hitters....
also they can recover from a timely late game N without some lucky top decks (burning through their Junk arms, dark patches, Junipers, and catchers early game to try and get a prize lead...)
Like I said, because zeels is so versatile and it has quite a few new toys, the darkdec. matchups are all going to be 50/50 at best for the darkdec. players
also they can recover from a timely late game N without some lucky top decks (burning through their Junk arms, dark patches, Junipers, and catchers early game to try and get a prize lead...)
Like I said, because zeels is so versatile and it has quite a few new toys, the darkdec. matchups are all going to be 50/50 at best for the darkdec. players
alexmf2 said:
I am sorry, but Weavile is bad with Darkrai, and nobody uses Weavile anyways.
For Darkrai vs Eels, Darkrai will be able to ko Tynamos early on. It ko's a Tynamo/Eels a turn, and then gets an extra prize/weakens down attackers too. In three turns you will lose all you Eels, even if it means losing a Darkrai for me. If I put the extra damage onto an Eel, I can ko your Zekrom and use the 30 damage alone to ko an Eels or Tynamo as it stacks up.
Zekrom + Eviolite makes Darkrai cry.
If they Darkrai goes for your Eels they won't be focused on your attacker, so you're in a better position. If they go for your attacker they won't be focused on your Eels (except for a 3-Turn KO, but that shouldn't be too troubling) and you can keep up the prize trade.
Not to mention that they can only use Darkrai because Tornadus is like 2 free prizes and Weavile is an easy prize, and powering up 3 Darkrai with ONLY Trainer support like Dark Patch? Very hard. By the late game your resources will be very very low, unlike Eels.
Also, N just ruins Darkrai, unlike Eels.
Honestly, I think the matchup is 60-40 in Eels favor.
If they Darkrai goes for your Eels they won't be focused on your attacker, so you're in a better position. If they go for your attacker they won't be focused on your Eels (except for a 3-Turn KO, but that shouldn't be too troubling) and you can keep up the prize trade.
Not to mention that they can only use Darkrai because Tornadus is like 2 free prizes and Weavile is an easy prize, and powering up 3 Darkrai with ONLY Trainer support like Dark Patch? Very hard. By the late game your resources will be very very low, unlike Eels.
Also, N just ruins Darkrai, unlike Eels.
Honestly, I think the matchup is 60-40 in Eels favor.
Glaceon, Weavile is amazing. There is no way I would ever take it out. But that's a conversation for another thread.
Roronoa Zoro, against Zekrom with Eviolite, all you need to do is Catcher around it once. After they attack a second time it is in OHKO range. If they go for your Eels, you won't have any acceleration left, but as you said you'll already have powered up attackers. Their best strategy is a little of both.
I don't use Tornadus EX and I never have problems with not enough energy acceleration.
N does hurt Darkrai more than Eels, but if they manage their resources well enough thy should be fine. Also, the Eels player shouldn't have much on the board either, so about half of the time it's just as destructive to the Eels player.
Roronoa Zoro, against Zekrom with Eviolite, all you need to do is Catcher around it once. After they attack a second time it is in OHKO range. If they go for your Eels, you won't have any acceleration left, but as you said you'll already have powered up attackers. Their best strategy is a little of both.
I don't use Tornadus EX and I never have problems with not enough energy acceleration.
N does hurt Darkrai more than Eels, but if they manage their resources well enough thy should be fine. Also, the Eels player shouldn't have much on the board either, so about half of the time it's just as destructive to the Eels player.
Glaceon said:
It doesn't KO a Tynamo. No one would be stupid enough to play the 30 hp one. It doesn't KO an Eel a turn. It would take 3 turns to KO one Eel using the spread from Darkrai. You can OHKO a Eel using catcher granted, but the energy acceleration in Zekeels is considerably better than Dark patch and late game, Zekeels has the advantage. They can keep getting out more Eels by playing more copies or using super rod.
The prize trade is more in favour of the Zekeels player personally.
alexmf2 said:
Ah, but that's where the difference in Energy acceleration comes in. One has the acceleration in the form of Pokemon on the Bench and Energy in the Discard, while the other has Trainers and Energy in the Discard. When one deck needs to rely so heavily on Trainers to cripple the opposing deck's field, N becomes much stronger. No amount of managing resources will allow you to catch back up at that point. Luckily, you are right that Darkrai can "steal" Prizes very easily off the Bench but only because of the sniping ability. I honestly think that N hurts Darkrai more to be honest. There's a reason I almost never see Darkrai lists playing N while Zekrom standardly plays 2/3...
dmaster out.
Yeah, I agree. Depending on the situation, yes N is pretty bad, especially if you're down a couple Eels. At that point, N doesn't really save you that much so you're going to need to probably use something else like a PONT or Juniper. The great part is that Zekrom/Eels can dictate when they use their N and that really helps out. N should only be used when you can wipe your opponent out of resources from their hand and the field and resources used will decide that. Of course, that also is linked to whoever goes first and who gets the faster start, but again, that's really any deck.
dmaster out.
dmaster out.
On the darkrai topic, if he's the only good attacker against zeels (assuming they don't play zoroark) then the game actually becomes really easy, because you only have to take down 3 darkrai, which shouldn't be too hard since they'll have trouble getting 2+ out. Also on N if you have two eels out (which isn't hard to do even against darkrai) and N them down to 1-2 cards you can pretty much seal the game (I know I'm kinda just stating the obvious)
ZekEels vs. Darkrai/Zoroark/Weavile is pretty much an even prize trade If you're playing the deck right. You don't really need Terrakion either despite that it hurts the decks' consistency with energies.
alexmf2 said:
yes you can get 2 out easily, but getting 3 out is a different story, playing tornadus and being forced to start with him is also a problem with the deck...
the matchup is 50/50 imho argue it any way you like, darkrai has no advantages against eels and vice versa
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