alexmf2 said:
The Mewtwo EX/Eelektrik/Zekrom Discussion Thread
- Thread starter iisnumber12
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- Even though it hardly happens, if it happens, you practically win.
- How does it "die" in a prize trade? Of course it eventually dies, but if your smart that shouldn't happen until after it takes 3 (or even 4) prizes.
- Darkrai is the only one that can do it easily and without any repercussions (except for maybe Zekrom). Terrakion is hard to set up, and no, it does not OHKO everything or KO an EX with an Eviolite. Mewtwo would just get immediately revenge KOed.
- So is EXP Share. I believe you are talking about Terrakion, a deck revolving around EXP Share, as a tier 1 deck.
- Shaymin. And EXP Share, which I run 2 of in my list. It can also attack with just a DCE.
- Oh yeah, except for the fact that you need to do at least 90 a turn to take them. And in my book, a free prize has to have 60 or less hp (Ex. Celebi).
- How does it "die" in a prize trade? Of course it eventually dies, but if your smart that shouldn't happen until after it takes 3 (or even 4) prizes.
- Darkrai is the only one that can do it easily and without any repercussions (except for maybe Zekrom). Terrakion is hard to set up, and no, it does not OHKO everything or KO an EX with an Eviolite. Mewtwo would just get immediately revenge KOed.
- So is EXP Share. I believe you are talking about Terrakion, a deck revolving around EXP Share, as a tier 1 deck.
- Shaymin. And EXP Share, which I run 2 of in my list. It can also attack with just a DCE.
- Oh yeah, except for the fact that you need to do at least 90 a turn to take them. And in my book, a free prize has to have 60 or less hp (Ex. Celebi).
alexmf2 said:
- Where in the world would you get that? I said that if it happens, you practically win no matter the deck you are playing or the skill level of the player, not that you need it to win.
- Darkrai can also set up very fast. And then your field will be gone really quick. Darkrai is the same speed as every other deck.
- A third is not all of them. All of them is all of them, and that's just an example of how Darkrai is superior to it. And no, Darkrai cannot be revenge KOed. Your arguing for no Terrakion in ZekEels, so what would you be hoping to OHKO it with? Your not giving any examples, your just saying "That dies" or "Your wrong, I'm right."
- Tornadus EX also only needs 2 energy. DCE? It also has the first attack that I mentioned early, which you can do 60 damage with. You can also attach EXP Share to Tornadus EX at any time, what's stopping you? And if I can't even get a Dark energy in the discard, that's just pathetic.
- Shaymin does not kill my "no benched targets" argument. I would only use Shaymin if I use Tornadus EX, which I don't in most games. And if they KO Tornadus before they KO my active, so what? The point of EXP Share is to not let your steam cool off. If they don't KO the guy with energy, just keep attacking them with him.
- 90 a turn may be easy, but it's not a free prize. A free prize is something that you can take at any time with any pokemon, and all you need is a Catcher. Pokemon such as Thundurus and Tornadus cannot OHKO a 90 hp pokemon.
- Darkrai can also set up very fast. And then your field will be gone really quick. Darkrai is the same speed as every other deck.
- A third is not all of them. All of them is all of them, and that's just an example of how Darkrai is superior to it. And no, Darkrai cannot be revenge KOed. Your arguing for no Terrakion in ZekEels, so what would you be hoping to OHKO it with? Your not giving any examples, your just saying "That dies" or "Your wrong, I'm right."
- Tornadus EX also only needs 2 energy. DCE? It also has the first attack that I mentioned early, which you can do 60 damage with. You can also attach EXP Share to Tornadus EX at any time, what's stopping you? And if I can't even get a Dark energy in the discard, that's just pathetic.
- Shaymin does not kill my "no benched targets" argument. I would only use Shaymin if I use Tornadus EX, which I don't in most games. And if they KO Tornadus before they KO my active, so what? The point of EXP Share is to not let your steam cool off. If they don't KO the guy with energy, just keep attacking them with him.
- 90 a turn may be easy, but it's not a free prize. A free prize is something that you can take at any time with any pokemon, and all you need is a Catcher. Pokemon such as Thundurus and Tornadus cannot OHKO a 90 hp pokemon.
alexmf2 said:
iisnumber12 said:
Raikou is only good If you manage to Dynamotor constantly for Volt Jolt and If they shut it down with Catcher by bringing up an Eel which gets KO'ed you're in big trouble. Regular Zekrom in comparison isn't as much of a glass cannon as Raikou is because you don't discard energies after using any of it's attacks even though it has 50 less HP than Raikou.
Tornadus EX is just flat out better because it covers the decks' weakness quite well with Eviolite attached and absorbs hits which gives you enough time to setup Mewtwo and Zekrom for attacking unless they get around it with Catcher by playing Junk Arm. If you're going up against Donphan or even Landorus or Groudon EX then you wasted a deck slot for a card that's an already garaunteed 2 prizes for your opponent.
Card Slinger J said:
The deck isn't based on Raikou. You just use it once or twice. You can't really cover weakness because of catcher.
I guess I could give Raikou EX a test run in ZekEels and If I don't like it I'm switching to Tornadus EX.
- I never said I relied on it, I actually mentioned many times how I am not reliant on it...
- What? I'm pounding out 110 + 30 every turn. That OHKOs everything and if I'm using the snipe correctly that will take a KO every 2-3 turns. If that doesn't destroy a field, I have no idea what would.
- If your saying Zoroark is better than Darkrai, that's a whole other argument. Zoroark is so bad and overhyped it's not even funny. Terrakion techs is ZekEels is hard to deal with that, and I have acknowledged that many times. Hell, I'll probably be playing ZekEels with Terrakion for BRs. Terrakion techs (not straight Terrakion) really hurt Darkrai, but they do not in any way make it unplayable.
- I run 3 Skyarrow Bridge in my list in order to utilize Smeargle to it's finest, so that I can get the turn one Darkrai maybe 20-30% of the time. And 60 damage takes out those free prizes that I have been talking about, which handily every deck except Darkrai has. And like I said before, If I can't manage to get a single Dark energy in the discard, I'm either an awful player or I'm playing an awful list. There are so many ways to get energy in the discard (Retreating, Ultra Ball, Junk Arm, Juniper, Sage). You already said that exact point about EXP Share, so just reread what I wrote last time. Or here, I'll post it for you: And if they KO Tornadus before they KO my active, so what? The point of EXP Share is to not let your steam cool off. If they don't KO the guy with energy, just keep attacking them with him.
- I either use Tornadus EX or I don't! If I use Tornadus EX, I use Shaymin with it! That kills neither of my arguments! If I use Tornadus EX, which I usually don't, I lose the nice bonus of having no free prizes. But I usually don't use Tornadus EX. And like I said before, there isn't a single thing that 110 doesn't KO, except for Thundurus + Eviolite and Zekrom + Eviolite. IMHO, Zekrom + Eviolite and Terrakion techs in ZekEels are what keep this deck from being the BDIF.
- It is not technically a free prize... I also just said this, so here is the copy and paste again: 90 a turn may be easy, but it's not a free prize. A free prize is something that you can take at any time with any pokemon, and all you need is a Catcher. Pokemon such as Thundurus and Tornadus cannot OHKO a 90 hp pokemon.
- What? I'm pounding out 110 + 30 every turn. That OHKOs everything and if I'm using the snipe correctly that will take a KO every 2-3 turns. If that doesn't destroy a field, I have no idea what would.
- If your saying Zoroark is better than Darkrai, that's a whole other argument. Zoroark is so bad and overhyped it's not even funny. Terrakion techs is ZekEels is hard to deal with that, and I have acknowledged that many times. Hell, I'll probably be playing ZekEels with Terrakion for BRs. Terrakion techs (not straight Terrakion) really hurt Darkrai, but they do not in any way make it unplayable.
- I run 3 Skyarrow Bridge in my list in order to utilize Smeargle to it's finest, so that I can get the turn one Darkrai maybe 20-30% of the time. And 60 damage takes out those free prizes that I have been talking about, which handily every deck except Darkrai has. And like I said before, If I can't manage to get a single Dark energy in the discard, I'm either an awful player or I'm playing an awful list. There are so many ways to get energy in the discard (Retreating, Ultra Ball, Junk Arm, Juniper, Sage). You already said that exact point about EXP Share, so just reread what I wrote last time. Or here, I'll post it for you: And if they KO Tornadus before they KO my active, so what? The point of EXP Share is to not let your steam cool off. If they don't KO the guy with energy, just keep attacking them with him.
- I either use Tornadus EX or I don't! If I use Tornadus EX, I use Shaymin with it! That kills neither of my arguments! If I use Tornadus EX, which I usually don't, I lose the nice bonus of having no free prizes. But I usually don't use Tornadus EX. And like I said before, there isn't a single thing that 110 doesn't KO, except for Thundurus + Eviolite and Zekrom + Eviolite. IMHO, Zekrom + Eviolite and Terrakion techs in ZekEels are what keep this deck from being the BDIF.
- It is not technically a free prize... I also just said this, so here is the copy and paste again: 90 a turn may be easy, but it's not a free prize. A free prize is something that you can take at any time with any pokemon, and all you need is a Catcher. Pokemon such as Thundurus and Tornadus cannot OHKO a 90 hp pokemon.
alexmf2 said:
I'm going to reply this in my Darkrai vs. Zoroark Thread because it fits better there.
Tornadus EXis actually a nice thing to add for a smeargle/SAB version as you can get the donk more often, run 40 hp tynamo etc. xD
^ the bridge version is actually probably at the height of it's power right now in a Post DE format (with tornadus EX, Raikou EX, 40hp Tynamo, Thundurus, smeargle etc.) I was actually thinking of maybe running 1x Virizion NVI and 2x prism to counter terrakion while gaining a sweet starter...
I already started testing Darkrai vs Zekeels, and tbh, Zekeels is superior. You need to have really awesome hands to set-up Darkrais when you want it. In my testing so far, it's currently 12-4 for Zekeels (without Terrakion) and the only thing that's keeping Darkrai to steamroll Zekeels is the fact that Dark Patch isn't searchable and Eelektrik is. That just gives a huge advantage to the Zekeels player. Also, you can't relie that much on Smeargle, Thundurus will just KO it.
IMO, Eelektrik > Dark Patch
Zekeels > Darkrai
IMO, Eelektrik > Dark Patch
Zekeels > Darkrai
Dream To Kill said:
I'm surprised that the junk arms don't help. You could potentially get 8 Dark patches which is more than enough.
Ka$h Money said:
Do you really want to use 3-4 of your JAs on Dark Patches? Darkrai isn't good matchup for Zekrom, but it isn't a bad one either.
DecaDang said:
Zekeels? The Zoroark matchup is 50/50, but N is really damaging to Zoroark.
^ that and the fact that they can only run dark pokemon, which is a problem against things like terrakion (not to mention even if they do get 4 zoroark out, after you ko a couple of them, they'll start running out of sp. darkness energy and dark claw.) Also you can sinpe zoura/zoroark really easily with raikou EX
most builds of zoroark rush that I've seen only have 10 basic dark pokemon, making it kinda easy to keep them from always have 6 dark pokemon in play :/
most builds of zoroark rush that I've seen only have 10 basic dark pokemon, making it kinda easy to keep them from always have 6 dark pokemon in play :/
Ka$h Money said:
Yeah, and using 4 Junk Arms for energy acceleration will burn your resources pretty quickly, and you won't be able to JA for Catcher or Switches anyway. Well, those are the results from my testing. I believe Darkrai isn't that good as a deck of it's own and I think the matchup is in Zekeels favor.
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